Post by: dontdoemyourself on September 05, 2020, 12:48:36 pm
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Post by: dontdoemyourself on September 05, 2020, 02:23:24 pm
Post by: libbydiesel on September 06, 2020, 12:48:30 am
The exhaust ports on that new head are almost comically small!
The concern with the 1.9 head on the 1.6 is that it significantly lowers compression (due to the increased pre-combustion chamber size) so can result in hard cold starts, rough running, and excessive smoke.
What happened to the AAZ block? If the block is good enough to be bored over and the crank is still good, you could get oversize ASV pistons and an AHU/1Z head and make an mTDI. There are other parts needed as well like injectors, pump, fuel lines, but I've built a couple mTDI's using AAZ blocks.
Post by: libbydiesel on September 06, 2020, 12:51:23 am
Post by: fatmobile on September 06, 2020, 04:49:25 am
I could shove my finger in there.
They must have 3 times the area of a 1.6 head.
Post by: libbydiesel on September 06, 2020, 11:10:36 am
Post by: dontdoemyourself on September 06, 2020, 11:29:33 pm
As for the current project.. With the lower compression would it likely need to run some sort of coolant pump block heater for cold starts in these Montana winters. Or would it be futile..?
The exhaust ports are comically small! I will need to buy some porting stuff to take care of that, also will probably leave the intake ports alone... I have some ptsd though.. last time I put a head back together it dropped a valve and blew up.. damnit. Not cool. I’ll take more time next go about
I will definitely run that windage tray, and I have a sandwich style oil/air cooler, definitely going to use as well.
Anyhow, I’ve heard back from the machine shop about my block, it’s ready for a bore, I’m planning on 1st oversize, (.020”) and after that I can get a head gasket, studs, bearings and so on.
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Post by: ORCoaster on September 07, 2020, 10:36:50 pm
would it likely need to run some sort of coolant pump block heater for cold starts in these Montana winters. Or would it be futile..?
It would do you well to have heat to the engine overnight, I mean you sleep in a nice warm bed don't you? The amount of low compression is the question I have for you. If it is so low, like 360 it may be futile to keep it warm and expect it to fire up in the morning. Do you know how low it is?
If you are considering a coolant type heater I understand they are the better between a dip stick type and the coolant type. VW does have the plug type that goes into the block in place of one of the plugs in the back of the block. I would venture a guess that you can find them online fairly easily.
Post by: libbydiesel on September 08, 2020, 01:18:55 am
Post by: dontdoemyourself on September 08, 2020, 12:28:42 pm
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Post by: theman53 on September 08, 2020, 01:38:51 pm
Post by: dontdoemyourself on September 08, 2020, 02:36:24 pm
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Post by: theman53 on September 09, 2020, 04:25:58 pm
Post by: dontdoemyourself on September 24, 2020, 10:27:18 pm
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Post by: libbydiesel on September 25, 2020, 12:39:23 am
Post by: fatmobile on September 25, 2020, 12:21:38 pm
Than it is to put a hydro head on a mechanical block.
Post by: dontdoemyourself on September 25, 2020, 01:01:58 pm
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Post by: libbydiesel on September 25, 2020, 01:40:03 pm
Post by: theman53 on September 28, 2020, 04:09:19 pm
Post by: dontdoemyourself on September 30, 2020, 12:15:40 am
side note.. I'm having trouble finding the vwdiese app on tapatalk.. has anyone else struggled with this.. sorry as I know its not idi related ha..
Post by: theman53 on September 30, 2020, 10:42:14 am
Post by: dontdoemyourself on September 30, 2020, 08:11:35 pm
Post by: dontdoemyourself on October 22, 2020, 04:16:41 pm
Post by: dontdoemyourself on October 22, 2020, 04:41:48 pm
Post by: libbydiesel on October 22, 2020, 07:24:00 pm
See the place circled in red? That is between cylinders 1 and 2. That hole needs to be plugged in the head (looks like it already has an allen plug in it). If you set the head onto the block the way that it goes, then directly under that oil drain in the head (that is now plugged) you will see the coolant channel that needs to be plugged.
This one:
(https://i.imgur.com/5ZrV3Fe.jpg)
Post by: dontdoemyourself on October 23, 2020, 04:30:19 pm
Post by: fatmobile on October 25, 2020, 12:02:53 am
the coolant would flow out the front of the block.
I have seen hydro head gaskets with that hole filled in, not punched out.
Post by: dontdoemyourself on October 25, 2020, 12:30:18 pm
So you can see that with a normal hydro head gasket
the coolant would flow out the front of the block.
I have seen hydro head gaskets with that hole filled in, not punched out.
That would be a huge time saver! Going to dig around a little and see if I can find a HG that has those passages blocked off. other than that my ideas for filling that hole were marine epoxy, jb weld, or drilling it out, and plugging.. which I don't really want to do, as id likely get metal shavings everywhere.
Post by: fatmobile on October 26, 2020, 12:40:34 am
Post by: dontdoemyourself on October 26, 2020, 10:49:29 am
You are going to put a plug in the head hole and make it flat right?The head is indeed plugged up, I need to back the plug out just a bit to get it to sit flush. My concern/ holdup still is the block, a little scared to drill it out and potentially get metal shavings all over. I was thinking of using the JB WELD steel stick? the putty stick that hardens up and you can supposedly weld to..?
Post by: libbydiesel on October 26, 2020, 11:33:20 am
Post by: dontdoemyourself on October 26, 2020, 11:58:34 am
I want to point out that you are going through a lot of effort in order to install a knock-off cylinder head onto a 1.6TD block. Although I believe it is doable, it is both risky and the end result is questionable (low compression, poor combustion, hard starts). I don't think you ever replied about whether or not you actually measured the cracks between valves and compared that to what Bentley says is acceptable. Is this still going into a Vanagon? In Montana? In that situation, I would pursue the MF head further before opting for the aftermarket AAZ head. If the MF head was indeed unusable I would see if I could find a usable OEM solid lifter head. Failing that I would opt for an aftermarket solid lifter 1.6 head. I would not opt for the aftermarket AAZ head until those prior options were exhausted.
Its not going into the Vanagon anymore, back in the old MK2 Jetta, which will then be headed to its new owner who lives in WA . I didn't measure those cracks.. I will do that today. I also am concerned about the amount of effort I'm putting into this potentially worthless head.. I'll measure those cracks and see what they turn out to be, and maybe make a plan to use the original head if it's in useable shape. If they're too big to be useable, what would be recommended from there..? I just need to get this thing all put back together and on the road, my Vanagon is my main goal to complete, but I also can't cut any corners, as I want this to be a reliable 1.6
Thanks again for all of your help gurus, looking forward to completing this and getting to enjoy it.
Post by: dontdoemyourself on October 27, 2020, 01:20:19 pm
I want to point out that you are going through a lot of effort in order to install a knock-off cylinder head onto a 1.6TD block. Although I believe it is doable, it is both risky and the end result is questionable (low compression, poor combustion, hard starts). I don't think you ever replied about whether or not you actually measured the cracks between valves and compared that to what Bentley says is acceptable. Is this still going into a Vanagon? In Montana? In that situation, I would pursue the MF head further before opting for the aftermarket AAZ head. If the MF head was indeed unusable I would see if I could find a usable OEM solid lifter head. Failing that I would opt for an aftermarket solid lifter 1.6 head. I would not opt for the aftermarket AAZ head until those prior options were exhausted.
I used some feeler gauges to see how bad the cracks between the valves on the stock 1.6td head were, from 1-4 they are .020" .019" .018"and .020" respectively.. I also could not find the tolerances in my Bentley's. Though I do have older ones for Rabbit's (from 1984, includes the turbo diesel) and Vanagon diesels.
Any one have a source on a 1.6td head to replace mine? At this point you guys are totally right and I've put a bunch of time and money into it already, I should just buy a refurbed head and call it good.. I saw a guy out of Cali selling them on thesamba, anyone have a better source for the price? thanks again.
Post by: libbydiesel on October 27, 2020, 04:43:27 pm
Post by: dontdoemyourself on October 27, 2020, 11:07:30 pm
Post by: libbydiesel on October 28, 2020, 12:37:53 pm
Post by: dontdoemyourself on October 28, 2020, 08:28:12 pm
Post by: libbydiesel on October 29, 2020, 12:06:51 am
You would want the 1/4" steel supported solidly and flat also or it will flex but if true and flat it will work. I solidly support the piece of polished granite I use to keep it from flexing. I lube the paper with WD40 or the like and use a good technique of keeping the head flat when moving it and altering the direction.
Post by: dontdoemyourself on October 30, 2020, 02:59:20 pm
Post by: dontdoemyourself on November 04, 2020, 11:56:46 am
Post by: libbydiesel on November 04, 2020, 01:27:02 pm
Post by: dontdoemyourself on November 16, 2020, 08:46:01 pm
Post by: ORCoaster on November 16, 2020, 10:59:40 pm
Post by: libbydiesel on November 16, 2020, 11:25:20 pm
Post by: dontdoemyourself on November 21, 2020, 11:21:55 am
Post by: dontdoemyourself on November 21, 2020, 09:12:16 pm
Post by: fatmobile on November 21, 2020, 10:50:16 pm
don't just sit there and idle while you adjust things.
Have it ready to go.
Break it in right.
Post by: dontdoemyourself on November 23, 2020, 10:50:48 am
Post by: ORCoaster on November 23, 2020, 09:40:54 pm
But what you need to do over the next 1000 miles or so is vary the acceleration and deceleration. Drive it in a lower gear up a grade and then take your foot out of it and use the engine as a brake when you need to stop. Drive it with higher RPM at cruise for a bit, then shift up.
The idea here is to get the rings to seat on one side with the acceleration part and on the other side with the backpressure. Don't lug it.
After the first 1000 change oil and filter and change to the new filter and synthetic oil and enjoy.
Post by: fatmobile on November 24, 2020, 10:07:23 pm
then back off.
Repeat.
Shifting through the gears and downshifting helps.
Both of these actions push the rings against the walls.
Don't run at a steady speed.
Don't do too many RPMs.
Maybe like you stole it
but granda is sitting in the passenger seat.
Yeah, drive it like you and granda are stealing a Rabbit. ;D
Post by: RabbitJockey on November 25, 2020, 08:15:38 pm
120 grit is not a typo. That's plenty smooth. It does not need a mirror finish. I have installed several heads treated in that manner without any issues. I use the paper from an 8" wide roll so I do not have any seams. You could finish it finer if you wanted to but it is not necessary in my experience.
You would want the 1/4" steel supported solidly and flat also or it will flex but if true and flat it will work. I solidly support the piece of polished granite I use to keep it from flexing. I lube the paper with WD40 or the like and use a good technique of keeping the head flat when moving it and altering the direction.
do you just do that to ones with defects? ive had good luck just cleaning them and reinstalling. do you ever remove the cups, sand, and then resintall them?
Post by: ORCoaster on November 25, 2020, 09:52:25 pm
Just don't let Gramps drive. It won't be enough to break in the new rings. No gentle like a baby's butt accelerations. But no peeling out either. Moderation, leaning towards a wild ride.
Post by: theman53 on November 28, 2020, 04:30:54 pm
Post by: fatmobile on November 28, 2020, 11:41:12 pm
And oil pan.
Post by: ORCoaster on November 29, 2020, 02:58:50 pm
Now I will slap a couple on the oil filter too, just for good measure.
Have them handy, may as well put them to good use.
Post by: dontdoemyourself on November 29, 2020, 10:06:49 pm
Post by: Dennis Froelich on November 30, 2020, 09:41:21 am
I need to get some pics of the ugly beast up here soon.
Post some pics of the other cars you have listed too!
Post by: dontdoemyourself on January 04, 2021, 12:13:09 pm
So, some potential issues.. engine seems to get hot under load.. the needle runs just a little to the left of the red light.. with the cooling fan and heater blasting it still seems to get hot going up hills or even just on flat ground under load. Also seems to be losing a tiny bit of coolant. I'm speculating that I probably needed to get my block decked.. which I didn't.. anyone know if that's something the machine shop can do with the rotating mass still in the block..? TIA. seems to be running well otherwise, starts up great when cold, gets up and goes.. just this dang temperature issue. thanks again !
Post by: libbydiesel on January 04, 2021, 03:05:07 pm
How much have you driven it?
Has the oil level been mysteriously rising?
Due to the pressure differential, a head gasket leak from coolant passage to cylinder results in exhaust gases in the coolant and usually not so much coolant getting burned. Intake stroke can result in a bit of coolant loss, but the other three strokes result in air or combustion gases into the coolant.
Post by: fatmobile on January 04, 2021, 08:42:00 pm
Post by: dontdoemyourself on January 04, 2021, 11:18:34 pm
Make sure the little line going to the coolant resevoir has a steady stream flowing.
it does not have any coolant coming into the reservoir from the little line from the upper radiator hose, maybe its plugged? I did notice that and scratch my head a little..
Ive driven the car maybe 3 hours total, 75 miles or so. I drive it around for 15-20 minutes until the temperature starts to get a little above the needle. The gauge has never spiked, it just seems to be steadily just above the red light, usually by not more than the width of the needle.. now I'm really wondering if that little hose to the reservoir..
oil level seems fine, did a filter and oil change at 50 miles, didn't seem any metal.
thanks again!
Post by: ORCoaster on January 04, 2021, 11:38:02 pm
Pull the whole thing off so you can be sure water will flow through it.
You don't want that engine to overheat and then have to do a head gasket replacement.
Post by: dontdoemyourself on January 05, 2021, 11:26:20 am
Post by: libbydiesel on January 05, 2021, 04:35:41 pm
Post by: fatmobile on January 05, 2021, 08:11:48 pm
That is the first place I look when I hear the word overheat.
If it's not flowing it's restricted.
If it's spurting it's most likely a head gasket.
Often the same symptoms.
Post by: libbydiesel on January 06, 2021, 09:55:03 am
Post by: ORCoaster on January 06, 2021, 11:29:20 pm
Is it because they want us to flush the fluids on a regular basis and not run that factory antifreeze for like 10 or 12 years?
I might try this as I have one of those little filters, I expect you could use one of those cheap inline gas filters for a lawnmower and let it do its work then replace it.
Thanks for the tips.
Post by: libbydiesel on January 07, 2021, 11:41:16 am
Post by: ORCoaster on January 07, 2021, 09:38:49 pm
What the hell is that for????
Post by: fatmobile on January 07, 2021, 10:04:30 pm
I've been thinking a coolant filter on the heater hose is the place to put it.
Post by: ORCoaster on January 08, 2021, 12:24:52 pm
And yeah? Why are there cat food cans on the strut towers? Kitty keeping the electrical gremlins away?
Maybe we should do a humorous post of the strange things we have installed on our cars over the years. Add ons that may or may not serve a real function or just put there to get people to ask the silly question.
I know people ask about the relay and wiring to the glow plugs on my Rabbit. Something to the effect, Well that doesn't look stock to me.
Post by: theman53 on January 09, 2021, 03:56:27 pm
What temp is that? How would you know if it is running hot if you have no clue what temp you are running? If you have read much on here the old guages are hard to trust, get a known good gauge to at least check it. The left of the red light is only like 2/3 of the gauge. Most all of mine with the hot thermostat in them ran about a needle width under the red. At the same time my autometer gauge would read about 190-210F, which is exactly where they are supposed to run. I am thinking you are fine.
Post by: ORCoaster on January 09, 2021, 07:39:20 pm
I don't remember if the gauges in the diesel and the gassers were of the same range. They get a voltage off the sender on the block and those have different ranges. Being an electrically controlled device it is subject to poor connections, low voltage, and general mayhem. That is why I like to use mechanical gauges whenever I can.
Post by: dontdoemyourself on January 14, 2021, 10:30:35 pm
The needle runs to the left of the red light...
What temp is that? How would you know if it is running hot if you have no clue what temp you are running? If you have read much on here the old guages are hard to trust, get a known good gauge to at least check it. The left of the red light is only like 2/3 of the gauge. Most all of mine with the hot thermostat in them ran about a needle width under the red. At the same time my autometer gauge would read about 190-210F, which is exactly where they are supposed to run. I am thinking you are fine.
Dang I missed some action on here haha! A coolant filter, not a bad idea, haven't thought of that before. Seems like a good idea for a daily, or like this, after a swap.
I should get an infrared thermometer, I also have an old VDO or something coolant gauge floating around somewhere. I installed new senders too?
I do no see any bubbles in the coolant, or coming out of the smaller hose, as far as I can tell.
I also checked the torque on my head bolts with my friends fancy digital torque wrench, they were all somewhere like 75-90 ft lbs. I re torqued them to 125ft lbs. and the running above halfway seems to be less frequent. Still does go about a needles width or a little more past the light.. when on it going up a hill, or running more than 2500 rpms or so. It does cool back down after a few minutes.. its also cold here too, starts fine at 20*F haven't tried much below that.
Ive been driving it a little still. the K24 takes so long to spool compared to the gt-15 or whatever my 97 tdi has..though I know it's due to the electronic stuff. id bet a swap would benefit both cars haha.
This thing moves and drives out of the shop now, time to start acting on my mTDI for my vanagon.. :P
Post by: dontdoemyourself on January 14, 2021, 10:34:08 pm
Post by: libbydiesel on January 15, 2021, 12:37:26 am
The amount of time that the K24 turbo takes to spool vs. the turbo on the 97 TDI has nothing to do with the electronics of the TDI. The K24 is huge compared to any of the later turbos. The Mk3 TDI turbos are wastegated and the electronics only have the ability to reduce boost, not make it happen sooner. The Mk4 TDIs had the VNT turbo which was electronically controlled and so the electronics were a factor with those.