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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Torchd on April 16, 2014, 03:34:49 am

Title: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 16, 2014, 03:34:49 am
My IP was leaking for the past 4 years now and I didn't wanna get it touched since we do not have competent diesel injection service centers here but the leaking got really bad and it was a bi*th to start in the mornings specially when cold. So I decided to get it resealed.

I sent it to Bosch authorized diesel service center and told them to reseal it only as it was perfect otherwise. They said that to reseal it, it will be taken apart and and then re calibrated. I asked if they had the correct calibration specs for my pump and they said they did.

Well, not really, they punched in my pump part number in their system and saw that it had been super seeded by another pump for which they had the calibration specs;since this pump super seeded my pump, they calibrated my ip with calibration specs of the ip that super seeded mine.

I just fitted the pump and timed it to 0.75 using a dial gauge. The car is awful, extremely sluggish, very long cranking to start, no power, laggy throttle, white smoke at idle and dark grey smoke at higher levs, sounds normal at idle but very harsh sound when revved even a little bit. Switches off while shifting.

I have spoken to them just now and they said then when I sent in the IP, they ran it on the test bench and noted down the fuel figures since I said the car ran fine otherwise and then they calibrated the same fuel parameters into the pump after putting it back together. They say that they are 100% sure that the calibration is spot on and suspect issue with the timings.

My question is AAZ has timing adjustment in the pulley, the pulley attaches to the coupling (thats what I think it is called) and then that coupling is mounted onto the pump drive shaft, so does this pump have a key between this coupling and the shaft? The bosch guys say that it doesn't and if it doesn't then what good is the slot on the coupling and the 6mm whole in the pump body to lock the timing? The coupling could have been placed in an absolutely opposite position while re fitting. How do I set the timings then??

Please help.. my car was a pleasure to drive and now it is a total disaster!! :'(
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Mark(The Miser)UK on April 16, 2014, 06:16:31 am
Try advancing timing. Book spec is 0.8, or 0.9 depending upon which book! so go for 0.85 and alter it to suit.

 Check TDC on flywheel corresponds with pulse of diesel from #1 fuel line after you think you've set it correctly, if you still have issues ...
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 16, 2014, 10:45:58 am
Thanks.... I plan to try that.

Any body else?
Title: Re:
Post by: vanbcguy on April 16, 2014, 03:36:14 pm
They would have had to replace parts to alter anything significantly.

Make sure the timing is right first, sounds very much like it is not correct. How did you set timing?

Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 17, 2014, 01:53:29 am
I followed these instructions.
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 17, 2014, 01:57:13 am
Like I said earlier.... the timings can be all wrong if there is no key between the coupling and the driveshaft since the locking slot is in the coupling and they could have placed the coupling 180deg. in the wrong direction!

How to set the timings correctly assuming there is no key and the coupling position on the shaft is way off?

Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: vanbcguy on April 17, 2014, 02:08:55 am
As long as fuel is coming out the right port at the right time and you've measured the lift correctly there should be no issue getting it set right.  Your instructions look to be correct.

That said, if you have the '2 piece' style of pump the pump hub is supposed to be set correctly on the pump already.  You should just be able to put the lock pin in the pump with the pulley loose on its hub and then get the engine set to TDC.
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 17, 2014, 03:59:37 am
The guy who worked on the pump is not sure about the position of the hub (coupling) on the pump; says it will have to be trial and error and I know that can't be correct.

I am not sure if my pump is called 2 piece style so attaching some pics before the reseal.
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 17, 2014, 04:03:19 am
......
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 17, 2014, 06:46:32 am
Where are all the experts?? Help guys!!!
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on April 17, 2014, 07:01:40 am
That is a 2  piece pulley.  Maybe there is a  ghost mark from the bolts in the  position  where it used to  be.  If he  put the other half together like it was before, lining up on those might get you really close.  I've  got within spec that way before.
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: TylerDurden on April 17, 2014, 07:19:32 am
I presume that the pictures were taken before the IP was serviced? That thing is filthy. Plus, it seems the idle-bump control rod is missing from the cold-start lever.

As stated earlier, to validate gross internal timing, the engine should be slowly turned by hand to see if a blob of fuel emerges from #1 hardline before TDC.
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: TylerDurden on April 17, 2014, 07:30:52 am
p.s.

The timing directions in earlier post do not include the vital element of pre-loading the dial gauge to >2.5mm. That pre-load allows the gauge to follow the IP plunger back down the camplate to its lowest point, where the dial is reset to the closest "zero" (e.g. 1.0, 2.0). After which, the hub can be turned to give a reading of +.80 (e.g. 1.80, 2.80).

(http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/FTXAm4P6nXU/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: CRSMP5 on April 17, 2014, 07:50:25 am
So much fail...  In tdi section i posted a topic, thread on mk4 pully on rover pump... The hub info you seek for knowledge there...

Pull hub off... If like mk4 there notch in case by seal that points to key way...

Keyway when built correctly points to divertervalve #1 if you have x ray vision to look thru pump.... This can be 180° off and be your issue... If they put it together wrong... The keyway is 10 to 11 o clock when looking head on....

If it lacks the mark by seal, both rover and mk4 has a casting on the pump that also works as pointer... Just mk4 has real timming line... Rover does not...take hub off, post pic... For poo n giggles mark 12, 6, 3, 9 like a clock so i can pointout what i can see in my head h

Why vw, and everyone else does not want info shared sux... Just do it... I lack test bench... So cannot yet test pumps.... Working on this... Lack any to compair yours too... Any specs so on... But if pump shop did
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: CRSMP5 on April 17, 2014, 07:58:00 am
Hate phone.... I could look at it, but i think they screwed with thingd, like say hammer mod... Unless you can test properly e
All things they screw with they can screw it up... Why i had to learn the voodoo for my own knowledge... Seen your isdue a few times... Why i wanted good assistance on pump reseal... Got crapped on... So invested on edjumacation... I know what i can touch, not touch to keep self outta trouble for now... A expert not so smart... They touched one of those things...

Id be looking at hammer mod, fuel body type pressure stuff... Clogged out bolt...
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 17, 2014, 08:20:36 am
That is a 2  piece pulley.  Maybe there is a  ghost mark from the bolts in the  position  where it used to  be.  If he  put the other half together like it was before, lining up on those might get you really close.  I've  got within spec that way before.

He told me to play with the hub bu adjusting to different positions and left the 19mm center bolt loose for me to tighten. So he definitely didn't line the hub correctly.

There were ghost marks on the 13mm bolts on the pulley earlier but I tried a few different degs so can't tell which one is the original one.
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 17, 2014, 08:38:50 am
I presume that the pictures were taken before the IP was serviced? That thing is filthy. Plus, it seems the idle-bump control rod is missing from the cold-start lever.

As stated earlier, to validate gross internal timing, the engine should be slowly turned by hand to see if a blob of fuel emerges from #1 hardline before TDC.

I do not have cold start lever in my car so that side is of no use. This engine is from a slightly newer model MK3 golf, my original engine died so it was replaced, IP of original engine did not have cold start anything!
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 17, 2014, 08:40:01 am
p.s.

The timing directions in earlier post do not include the vital element of pre-loading the dial gauge to >2.5mm. That pre-load allows the gauge to follow the IP plunger back down the camplate to its lowest point, where the dial is reset to the closest "zero" (e.g. 1.0, 2.0). After which, the hub can be turned to give a reading of +.80 (e.g. 1.80, 2.80).

(http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/FTXAm4P6nXU/hqdefault.jpg)

Yes it does miss the preload bit. But I did the preloading to 2mm while timing it.
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 17, 2014, 08:48:47 am
Hate phone.... I could look at it, but i think they screwed with thingd, like say hammer mod... Unless you can test properly e
All things they screw with they can screw it up... Why i had to learn the voodoo for my own knowledge... Seen your isdue a few times... Why i wanted good assistance on pump reseal... Got crapped on... So invested on edjumacation... I know what i can touch, not touch to keep self outta trouble for now... A expert not so smart... They touched one of those things...

Id be looking at hammer mod, fuel body type pressure stuff... Clogged out bolt...

You sure sound knowledgeable and as much as I would like to understand everything you have said but I probably got only 40% of it!
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Mark(The Miser)UK on April 17, 2014, 09:35:06 am
I followed these instructions.
Big source of error in instruction #4..

Be sure that when the initial zeroing of the gauge takes place, it is still touching the pump piston, and not the gauge itself 'bottomed out'.

Check this by slackening the gauge extension clamp slightly, and easing the gauge out a little, until it stops dropping, and then push back in for at least 2 revolutions of the dial, reclamp, and rezero outer  gauge bezel. Turn engine through 2 complete revolutions, to check still at zero. Now check reading @TDC...
EDIT: Ah again, 2 hours to cook/write is too long
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Gizmoman on April 17, 2014, 10:21:14 pm
I followed these instructions.
Big source of error in instruction #4..

Be sure that when the initial zeroing of the gauge takes place, it is still touching the pump piston, and not the gauge itself 'bottomed out'.

Check this by slackening the gauge extension clamp slightly, and easing the gauge out a little, until it stops dropping, and then push back in for at least 2 revolutions of the dial, reclamp, and rezero outer  gauge bezel. Turn engine through 2 complete revolutions, to check still at zero. Now check reading @TDC...
EDIT: Ah again, 2 hours to cook/write is too long
Totally agree with above. I bought one of those "kits" with every imaginable rocker lever, multiple stem extenders, mounts, clamps tips, etc. I still ended up making a suitable rod as everything that came in the "kit" was too short, to long, or the wrong diameter to hit just the cam and not the access bore where it hangs up and totally messes up your readings.
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 18, 2014, 03:18:22 am
How to get the hub off? i have tried it with a puller and then hammering it a little at different angles but it doesn't budge?!!
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 18, 2014, 04:11:28 am
Okay so I got it off....

and here are the pics.

There are two woodruff key slot marks inside the hub so it was probably in the wrong position since the pump or the engine has never been touched before.

Where do I go from here?
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 18, 2014, 04:13:24 am
This one is much lighter than the other.
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: theman53 on April 18, 2014, 08:18:27 am
you could try to put the pump at TDC like CRSMP5 said, it should be in that 10 to 11 o'clock position. Then put the hub on in a neutral way that you would have pulley adjustment each way if needed. The slot marks shouldn't matter as long as you can get adjustment...unless I am missing something. I would try the darker of the two if you are worried. The only thing I would really worry about is if fuel is actually coming out when it is supposed to or is it 180 off. Do the tests mentioned to see when the fuel is coming out then put the pulley on accordingly.
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: burn_your_money on April 18, 2014, 09:29:03 am
Good news, since you have a dial indicator, you don't need the 2 piece pulley setup. Turn the pump so that the key slot on the driveshaft points towards outlet A on the back of the pump  (cylinder #1). This should be around 11 o-clock. Because of the springs/cam in the pump you won't be able to lock the pump in the exact proper position.

Now that the shaft is close, look at the pulley you removed (inner pulley). The notch needs to be at the top so you can lock the pump in position. You do not need to get it exact, as long as it's close you will be fine. Do not tighten the inner pulley with the notch exactly at the top, it need to be BTDC because the shaft is not in the proper spot. Once you have it close, tighten the large nut down. You can use the mark inside the inner pulley to get it as close as you can to where it was. Again, this isn't critical to get exact since you have a dial indicator.

Now install the pump. Lock the pump using the pin, and set the belt so that it goes on the outer pulley in the center of the 3 bolts that hold the pulleys together. With the engine at TDC and the belt installed properly, remove the lock pin and loosen the 3 bolts that hold the pulleys together and then set the timing to 0.90mm or whatever you want to run it at. Tighten the 3 bolts and finish the rest of the timing procedure and all should be well.
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Zulfiqar on April 18, 2014, 10:34:51 am
Hi,

You need to first determine what port spills fuel at TDC1 - then go about setting the hub, To get it off you could have used 3 strong bolts, a thick metal disc with 4 holes with nut welded in the centre hole.

It would have made easy work of removing the hub without risk of the puller flying off or marking the hub, I recall translating a manual with google and it had something to say about aligning the rectangular cut with a tool to set the initial timing then installing the belt pulley - just as burn your money is saying here.
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 18, 2014, 03:36:56 pm
Good news, since you have a dial indicator, you don't need the 2 piece pulley setup. Turn the pump so that the key slot on the driveshaft points towards outlet A on the back of the pump  (cylinder #1). This should be around 11 o-clock. Because of the springs/cam in the pump you won't be able to lock the pump in the exact proper position.

Now that the shaft is close, look at the pulley you removed (inner pulley). The notch needs to be at the top so you can lock the pump in position. You do not need to get it exact, as long as it's close you will be fine. Do not tighten the inner pulley with the notch exactly at the top, it need to be BTDC because the shaft is not in the proper spot. Once you have it close, tighten the large nut down. You can use the mark inside the inner pulley to get it as close as you can to where it was. Again, this isn't critical to get exact since you have a dial indicator.

Now install the pump. Lock the pump using the pin, and set the belt so that it goes on the outer pulley in the center of the 3 bolts that hold the pulleys together. With the engine at TDC and the belt installed properly, remove the lock pin and loosen the 3 bolts that hold the pulleys together and then set the timing to 0.90mm or whatever you want to run it at. Tighten the 3 bolts and finish the rest of the timing procedure and all should be well.

Right I get most of it, by notch you a referring to the 6mm locking slot on the inner pulley or the woodruff key slot on the shaft?

I would like it if you can please elaborate the 2nd paragraph here...
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Toby on April 18, 2014, 03:37:27 pm
This is a classic case of building yourself a trap. It appears that you never tried just adjusting the pump for more advance. It also sounds like you never ascertained which port is getting fuel at TDC1.

If this is true, you have no idea where you were when you took the pump off and removed the hub.

You seem to be obsessing about what the dial indicator says and not how the car runs. Something is wrong but the more things that you screw with, the more complex the problem becomes.

If the pump is assembled 180* out all of your farting around is for naught. This could/can be cured by spinning the IP pulley 180* and resetting the timing. But you took it all apart so we won't know until its back together and doesn't work.

If something else is assembled incorrectly and .75mm is no longer the correct spec then you are still going to have to start advancing the IP until it runs correctly OR take it apart or back to the IP joint t be corrected. They do not inspire much confidence since they did not a) clock the hub correctly or at all, and/or b) assembled the IP incorrectly.

I think you would be far better served to listen to the people on this list who know how to troubleshoot these kinds of issues and actually do EXACTLY what they suggest and report back. Randomly jumping around like a 6 yo on Mountain Dew and changing this or that will seldom find what is wrong.
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: burn_your_money on April 18, 2014, 04:18:06 pm
Good news, since you have a dial indicator, you don't need the 2 piece pulley setup. Turn the pump so that the key slot on the driveshaft points towards outlet A on the back of the pump  (cylinder #1). This should be around 11 o-clock. Because of the springs/cam in the pump you won't be able to lock the pump in the exact proper position.

Now that the shaft is close, look at the pulley you removed (inner pulley). The notch needs to be at the top so you can lock the pump in position. You do not need to get it exact, as long as it's close you will be fine. Do not tighten the inner pulley with the notch exactly at the top, it need to be BTDC because the shaft is not in the proper spot. Once you have it close, tighten the large nut down. You can use the mark inside the inner pulley to get it as close as you can to where it was. Again, this isn't critical to get exact since you have a dial indicator.

Now install the pump. Lock the pump using the pin, and set the belt so that it goes on the outer pulley in the center of the 3 bolts that hold the pulleys together. With the engine at TDC and the belt installed properly, remove the lock pin and loosen the 3 bolts that hold the pulleys together and then set the timing to 0.90mm or whatever you want to run it at. Tighten the 3 bolts and finish the rest of the timing procedure and all should be well.

Right I get most of it, by notch you a referring to the 6mm locking slot on the inner pulley or the woodruff key slot on the shaft?

I would like it if you can please elaborate the 2nd paragraph here...

By notch in paragraph 2 I mean the locking slot.

Which part of paragraph 2 do you have questions about?
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: CRSMP5 on April 18, 2014, 05:01:31 pm
I do not see the pic you say u posted of the pump snout with hub removed.... See 1st page pics though...

You gotta know when #1 squirts fuel... Thats tdc of pump... If assembled properly, its between 10 and 11 o clock...  But if built wrong, 4 to 5 oclock... Till you see when #1 squirts you do not know..post pic... It will help
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 19, 2014, 01:32:45 am
Hi,

You need to first determine what port spills fuel at TDC1 - then go about setting the hub, To get it off you could have used 3 strong bolts, a thick metal disc with 4 holes with nut welded in the centre hole.

It would have made easy work of removing the hub without risk of the puller flying off or marking the hub, I recall translating a manual with google and it had something to say about aligning the rectangular cut with a tool to set the initial timing then installing the belt pulley - just as burn your money is saying here.

Thanks Zulfiqar,

any chance you can locate that manual?
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 19, 2014, 01:33:16 am
Never mind. I get it now Burn_Your_money..... Thanks!!!
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 19, 2014, 01:45:09 am
This is a classic case of building yourself a trap. It appears that you never tried just adjusting the pump for more advance. It also sounds like you never ascertained which port is getting fuel at TDC1.

If this is true, you have no idea where you were when you took the pump off and removed the hub.

You seem to be obsessing about what the dial indicator says and not how the car runs. Something is wrong but the more things that you screw with, the more complex the problem becomes.

If the pump is assembled 180* out all of your farting around is for naught. This could/can be cured by spinning the IP pulley 180* and resetting the timing. But you took it all apart so we won't know until its back together and doesn't work.

If something else is assembled incorrectly and .75mm is no longer the correct spec then you are still going to have to start advancing the IP until it runs correctly OR take it apart or back to the IP joint t be corrected. They do not inspire much confidence since they did not a) clock the hub correctly or at all, and/or b) assembled the IP incorrectly.

I think you would be far better served to listen to the people on this list who know how to troubleshoot these kinds of issues and actually do EXACTLY what they suggest and report back. Randomly jumping around like a 6 yo on Mountain Dew and changing this or that will seldom find what is wrong.

Toby that's a bit harsh but its okay!

Yes I never tried advancing the pump bit by bit because it does not sound right to me; I can't get things lined up 100% correctly this way yes I will be close... this is just approximation and I am in pursuit of perfection.

You are wrong here. I did mark the hub position against the shaft before I removed it in case the diesel service guy did put it together in the correct spot but when I saw the hub having two key slot marks in it then I wasn't sure.

I have mentioned how the car runs earlier on in this thread and I have also mentioned on the dial gauge. I don't think the hub was 180deg. off since the two key slot marks in the hub are at like 5 O' clock and 7-8 O clock.

I will now follow what burn_your_money has said here since now I feel I have sufficient information on this and have developed enough understanding on how I should go about it.

PS. I have not removed the IP from the car, I did not see the need to do so. Removed the hub from the shaft with the IP in its position.

 



Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 19, 2014, 01:51:02 am
I do not see the pic you say u posted of the pump snout with hub removed.... See 1st page pics though...

You gotta know when #1 squirts fuel... Thats tdc of pump... If assembled properly, its between 10 and 11 o clock...  But if built wrong, 4 to 5 oclock... Till you see when #1 squirts you do not know..post pic... It will help

Here's the pic.
Title: Re:
Post by: vanbcguy on April 19, 2014, 02:17:24 am
You absolutely should have tried advancing things before all of this.

Perfection on these engines is more akin to tuning a guitar than punching numbers on a calculator. The timing has many factors that affect it - for your particular pump that has been touched by someone with unknown skills and who has performed unknown changes there is no book number. You need to adjust it till it runs right, much like 3/4 of a turn on a tuning peg of a guitar won't guarantee a perfect note.

Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on April 19, 2014, 05:52:43 am
I'd say static timing the pump then timing it to the engine is a much  more logical and efficient choice in the long run, especially since it has been "touched by someone with unknown skills and who has performed unknown changes".
You want to undo their randomness, not stack more chaos on top of it.
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: 8v-of-fury! on April 19, 2014, 11:24:47 am
There really isn't much about these that can change where they get set-up for static timing. Even a heavily modified Giles pump is still timed to 0.95mm.

I have taken a stock aaz pump and put it s guts in to a 1.6 pump and run that pump on a 1.6 TD engine and later on a an aaz again. I ran them both at 1.00mm and they both loved it there for cold starts, mileage and performance.

This one is rather a conundrum. All your symptoms point to EXTREMELY retarded injection pump timing.
Title: Re:
Post by: vanbcguy on April 19, 2014, 06:06:52 pm
If for some reason they swapped the cam plate while they had it open anything can happen. Given the shop doing the reseal seems to have torn in to the pump way more than necessary I figure anything is possible. But yeah it shouldn't change much. If they gritted up the plunger and it isn't sealing as well any more it will retard the timing too.

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Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 20, 2014, 10:18:53 am
https://vimeo.com/92434731        1st

https://vimeo.com/92436728        2nd

https://vimeo.com/92445407        3rd

https://vimeo.com/92445409        4th

A little slower than it used to be but almost there....its smoking a little more than it used to, set the timings at 0.9 and after two rotations it was 0.92 and then I reset it at 0.9 and after three rotations it was at 0.92 again.
The idle at start up is at 1000 but after running for 10 seconds it goes to 1100 whereas it used to be at 900 before the resealing.

The lighter key slot mark in the inner pulley is the correct one. I reckon because the torque applied on the 19mm center nut from factory must have been done using a torque wrench, and when i torqued it 2-3 days ago in the wrong position I didn't have a torque wrench so I just stopped where it felt right, therefore a dark key slot mark.

What do you guys think?!
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 20, 2014, 10:28:06 am
The slack in accelerator lever was not there before. I have highlighted it in the 3rd clip. I don't like it, why is it there now and how do I get rid of it?
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: burn_your_money on April 20, 2014, 10:39:25 am
When you timed it was the cold start lever pushed all the way towards the front of the pump (right side of car)?

It seems smokey, and it's definitely idling too high.

In regards to the slack, did you adjust the accelerator cable by moving the clip on the cable at the pump end? Or do you mean that you can move the accelerator lever and the engine RPMs don't increase?

For no reason other than I'm curious, can you take a few pictures of the battery for me?

That looks like some beautiful country

I would try 0.85 and also 0.95 and maybe even 1.00 just to see where you car likes to run.
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 20, 2014, 12:05:11 pm
Yes, cold start was pushed in all the way in; I ensured that.

I mean I move the accelerator lever and the rev's don't increase. What to do?

Okay I will take pics of the battery, its from my Land Rover only temporarily in the Golf. Its a local manufactured battery apparently the best one!

It is a beautiful country...I assure you that.

I would like to keep it at factory settings.... which is 0.9??? Some say its 0.8.... Whats correct? What do you reckon... does it sound alright? Is it advanced or still retard? Should I just start driving it as is?
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 20, 2014, 12:22:07 pm
Can it be smokey because it is at 0.9mm and not 0.8... perhaps 0.8 is the factory setting?
Title: Re:
Post by: vanbcguy on April 20, 2014, 01:39:24 pm
The revs not changing when you move the lever through the first bit of its travel imply that the lever wasn't aligned properly when it was attached to the pump again. It is a splined shaft, the orientation between the two parts is tricky.

Hey I just noticed the white two pin connector on your pump. Did you have anything attached to that before? That connector is almost certainly timing related, the later AAZ pumps had a variety of different emissions controls depending on the specific year and market the pump was from. It varies from a system that locks out the advance to computer assisted dynamic timing control.

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Title: Re:
Post by: vanbcguy on April 20, 2014, 01:41:49 pm
Also I hear a noise in your third video that I might associate with an overly tight timing belt. Hard to say from here though.

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Title: Re:
Post by: Torchd on April 20, 2014, 03:05:57 pm
The revs not changing when you move the lever through the first bit of its travel imply that the lever wasn't aligned properly when it was attached to the pump again. It is a splined shaft, the orientation between the two parts is tricky.

Hey I just noticed the white two pin connector on your pump. Did you have anything attached to that before? That connector is almost certainly timing related, the later AAZ pumps had a variety of different emissions controls depending on the specific year and market the pump was from. It varies from a system that locks out the advance to computer assisted dynamic timing control.

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So this is how its gonna remain or can I fix it somehow?

That switch doesn't work its just there. I have  removed the EGR too as well as the mini ecu above the fuse box that controls egr and other emission related functions.




Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 20, 2014, 03:06:28 pm
I will check timing belt tension.
Title: Re:
Post by: vanbcguy on April 20, 2014, 03:35:02 pm
The throttle lever can be fixed... There's a how to on here somewhere. If you search for accelerator lever adjustment or something like that you should find it.

So that white connector just goes to a switch on the accelerator lever? Are there any other electrical connectors on your pump? In particular below that white connector?

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Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on April 20, 2014, 03:35:29 pm
take yourself a good picture of how the springs  on the throttle arm go
Then  take that stack apart till you get to the lever at the pump, take it off and  move it one spline  back toward idle so at full throttle the mechanism is pulled more..
try it, and if you still have slack , go another spline.
You may have to readjust the idle screw afterward...first   have a look at that and see if it seems the reseal guy  has moved it.
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Zulfiqar on April 20, 2014, 07:12:30 pm
Check that the idle speed is actually adjusted with the idle lever in the back of the pump and not the stop screw (its the residual fuel screw), Your pump not picking up rpm on initial usually happens due to that.

I had a similar issue when I got my 1.6, Torchd can relate to the "mechanical facilities" in the country and a VW Golf is like a spaceship from Mars - 99% of people have never seen one. anyway if the idle is adjusted from the residual - the engine will want to stall on slight load at idle. The engine should idle with authority and should resist stalling on slight load. Thats why the separate idle and residual systems are so great.

If you are unable to get it to idle and pick up rpm properly then reclock the accelerator lever. Infact call up the lab and talk to someone who knows what this is.
Title: Re:
Post by: Torchd on April 21, 2014, 03:22:06 am
The throttle lever can be fixed... There's a how to on here somewhere. If you search for accelerator lever adjustment or something like that you should find it.

So that white connector just goes to a switch on the accelerator lever? Are there any other electrical connectors on your pump? In particular below that white connector?

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There is another solenoid switch on the side just beside the white connector.
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Torchd on April 21, 2014, 03:28:21 am
Check that the idle speed is actually adjusted with the idle lever in the back of the pump and not the stop screw (its the residual fuel screw), Your pump not picking up rpm on initial usually happens due to that.

I had a similar issue when I got my 1.6, Torchd can relate to the "mechanical facilities" in the country and a VW Golf is like a spaceship from Mars - 99% of people have never seen one. anyway if the idle is adjusted from the residual - the engine will want to stall on slight load at idle. The engine should idle with authority and should resist stalling on slight load. Thats why the separate idle and residual systems are so great.

If you are unable to get it to idle and pick up rpm properly then reclock the accelerator lever. Infact call up the lab and talk to someone who knows what this is.


Yes I can definitely relate to the mechanical facilities available around here. One can tell just by the kind of job these "Authorized diesel service agent" did. There has never been a time that one of my car or my fathers or my brothers cars has gone to the dealer and come back perfect; I always have to fix something or the other they either left out completely or messed up. Be it MB dealer, LR dealer or BMW dealer.

It is resisting stalling under load. I will attempt to reclock the acc. lever and report back.

Title: Re: Re: Re:
Post by: vanbcguy on April 21, 2014, 11:08:47 am

There is another solenoid switch on the side just beside the white connector.

Ok! On some pumps that solenoid disables the advance circuit on the pump all together unless it sees 12V meaning you'd be running retarded and time you are above idle. That could be a big part of your issues.

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Title: Re: Re: Re:
Post by: Torchd on April 21, 2014, 01:29:39 pm

There is another solenoid switch on the side just beside the white connector.

Ok! On some pumps that solenoid disables the advance circuit on the pump all together unless it sees 12V meaning you'd be running retarded and time you are above idle. That could be a big part of your issues.

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You are probably right about that but in all of this the only variable is the pump and the timings; the wiring and everything else remains the same before and after the reseal so I wouldn't suspect any thing like that.

Like I said nothing is connected they are just connected to the pump because the engine side wiring loom I am currently using came with this engine , the other side of the black round twist able socket probably does not even have the corresponding wiring needed to make this setup work that is because the original AAZ of this car did not have such IP, that was the earlier version of the AAZ and its IP was very simple looking much like the 1.6TD MF/SB ip. And I do not have the black mini ecu installed in the car which I believe is responsible for all such functions.
Title: Re: AAZ disastrous after IP reseal and calibration.
Post by: Toby on April 21, 2014, 03:45:24 pm
I would try putting 12v across the pins of the solenoids one at a time, and see what happens. I have seen the solenoid on a Volvo make a huge difference in how they run. I had one that had not had the IP wiring hooked up in years and apparently ran fine. I de-slimed the IP and then it would not run correctly w/o the wiring hooked up.