VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: idgtd on February 22, 2010, 03:54:01 pm
-
So, in this thread:
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=18881.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=18881.0)
I've been following my NA turbocharger install and subsequent operation. In the last post, I mentioned I had finished the install of the AWIC, and here it is.
(http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt10/idgtd/IMG_0697.jpg)
And, I've done some testing on it. Although I'd like to increase my water flow to improve IC efficiency a bit more, the current numbers come out to about 67%. This screen capture shows the different temperatures of the system during an acceleration run. Red is IC inlet temp, Green is IC outlet temp, and the blue line is ambient air, all in degrees C.
(http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt10/idgtd/AccelOntoOldWestPoint.png)
I've also logged the water temperature, and it never climbs more than a few degrees above ambient, so I'm pretty sure that my heat exchanger (modified A/C condenser) is up to the task.
So, now that she's turbocharged, intercooled, and has a 2.25" exhaust, I think it's time to work on the pump for more power......... ;D
Thoughts, comments?
-
very cool!
how are you logging intake temps?
I am thinking about doing the same thing, any idea how much $$ you have into the intercooling system?
also, what are you using as a pump?
-
I'm logging the temps with a National Instruments data logger and thermocouples. One of the perks of working in automotive research ;)
As for cost, I got the IC from frozen boost for $150, and that was the bulk of the cost. The silicone couplers cost a good bit to. The rest of it was just fittings and hose. I'd say about $170-200. The pump is a mercedes aux water pump, which isn't really good enough for me but my friend had one lying around. I had a spare A/C condenser lying around, so I modified it for parallel flow and put it in front of the factory rad. and A/C cond.
It was more than I wanted to spend, but then again, it took no time to put it in since the IC piping was so simple.
-
Awesome, that's pretty much exactly what I want to do to Jezebel!!
What'd you end up doing for a reservoir?
Oh, and do you have an additional fan on the heat exchanger, or are you just relying on the stock one?
-
I used a 6" section of 4" pvc. I glued a cap on one end, drilled and tapped ports on it, and left the other end a slip fit. Works great!
No extra fan on my heat exchanger yet, and I don't think I'm going to put one on. The heat soak isn't really an issue thus far, but I'll keep monitoring it.
-
I used a 6" section of 4" pvc. I glued a cap on one end, drilled and tapped ports on it, and left the other end a slip fit. Works great!
No extra fan on my heat exchanger yet, and I don't think I'm going to put one on. The heat soak isn't really an issue thus far, but I'll keep monitoring it.
That's an AWESOME idea... I was planning on trying to find a coolant overflow bottle or something, but the PVC pipe is a nice way to do it - smaller too! Any idea how much water you've got in your system?
-
not only that, but PVC would be the best way to make a reservoir for anything(like my water/meth system)
you could put a threaded end on it, so you could screw it down tight instead of just slipping the end on top.
-Owen
-
I used a 6" section of 4" pvc. I glued a cap on one end, drilled and tapped ports on it, and left the other end a slip fit. Works great!
BRILLIANT!! :D
-
Is an A/C condensor not too restrictive ? (any idea what the waterpressure is,
as these pumps are designed for low pressure, high flow.
Coupling between motor and impeller is magnetic (no direct shaft drive, and no leakage!))
Results look good, have you tried it on a long drive ?
-
I'm on the fence between air and water IC. I'd be interested in what it's like on a long drive as well.
Nice install!
-
Is an A/C condensor not too restrictive ? (any idea what the waterpressure is,
as these pumps are designed for low pressure, high flow.
Coupling between motor and impeller is magnetic (no direct shaft drive, and no leakage!))
Results look good, have you tried it on a long drive ?
Originally the factory type condensor was too restrictive, so I TIG welded a fitting on it to divide the flow into two parallel paths. Now I'm getting about 1.5 GPM through it, but I'd like a little more.
The setup has been on quite a few longer drives, up to about 4 hrs. Works good, no heat soak!
-
Hey, bringing this thread back from the dead since I'm close to doing a similar setup... So it's been over a year, still liking the AWIC?
-
I'm on the fence between air and water IC. I'd be interested in what it's like on a long drive as well.
Nice install!
as water can't cool charge air below 180F, air is more efficient on the highway, but it takes up more space under the hood and is not as efficient at low speeds w/o a fan...
Awesome piece of engineering work !!! I didn't know there was much automotive research in N.H. :-D I guess being at the big 3 for so long I missed it.
-
please explain why water can't cool charge below 180? John Deere uses AWIC on a lot of applications. and we keep the water at 55 degrees fahrenheit in that system.
-
as water can't cool charge air below 180F, air is more efficient on the highway, but it takes up more space under the hood and is not as efficient at low speeds w/o a fan...
Awesome piece of engineering work !!! I didn't know there was much automotive research in N.H. :-D I guess being at the big 3 for so long I missed it.
Actually if you look at his temp charts you can see he is definitely cooling below 180F! Looks like his peak post-IC temp was about 32C / 90F.
The place I've most frequently seen that 180F number quoted is when people are talking about using engine coolant for their AWIC setup which is definitely NOT what is happening here...
-
as water can't cool charge air below 180F, air is more efficient on the highway, but it takes up more space under the hood and is not as efficient at low speeds w/o a fan...
Awesome piece of engineering work !!! I didn't know there was much automotive research in N.H. :-D I guess being at the big 3 for so long I missed it.
Actually if you look at his temp charts you can see he is definitely cooling below 180F! Looks like his peak post-IC temp was about 32C / 90F.
The place I've most frequently seen that 180F number quoted is when people are talking about using engine coolant for their AWIC setup which is definitely NOT what is happening here...
engine coolant is less than ideal for cooling a charge.. cause its just warming up your air unless you are on the boost. the engine is supposed to have a cooling system, and the A2W IC should have its own cooling system also.. completely independent of the engine..
-
Some industrial / heavy duty applications use engine coolant for their AWIC, but in those cases we're talking about engines designed to be at full power for hours at a time. Things like mining equipment, gensets, etc. An engine coolant cooled AWIC on a motor boosting 30+ PSI can still delivers a respectable decrease in intake temperatures, especially when off-bost isn't a consideration.
Obviously though what we are doing is quite a bit different. We tend to drive at significantly less than full power for the most part, we spend a lot of time at part throttle and we usually only see maximum boost for a few minutes at a time tops. It'd be nuts to be heating our inlet air up to engine coolant temperature the majority of the time.
Anyhow, now that we've got that sorted, was still hoping the OP would chime in with an update after a year of running his AWIC! ;D ;D
-
Some industrial / heavy duty applications use engine coolant for their AWIC, but in those cases we're talking about engines designed to be at full power for hours at a time. Things like mining equipment, gensets, etc. An engine coolant cooled AWIC on a motor boosting 30+ PSI can still delivers a respectable decrease in intake temperatures, especially when off-bost isn't a consideration.
Obviously though what we are doing is quite a bit different. We tend to drive at significantly less than full power for the most part, we spend a lot of time at part throttle and we usually only see maximum boost for a few minutes at a time tops. It'd be nuts to be heating our inlet air up to engine coolant temperature the majority of the time.
Anyhow, now that we've got that sorted, was still hoping the OP would chime in with an update after a year of running his AWIC! ;D ;D
come to think of it, our generators up in alaska (big waukeshaws) had A2W intercoolers, but im not sure if they were cooled by the engine coolant, or the raw water for the heat exchangers.. and those things NEEDED them.. you would fire up the genset, and slowly start applying a load, and as it warmed up, the turbo would start glowing..
-
Some industrial / heavy duty applications use engine coolant for their AWIC, but in those cases we're talking about engines designed to be at full power for hours at a time. Things like mining equipment, gensets, etc. An engine coolant cooled AWIC on a motor boosting 30+ PSI can still delivers a respectable decrease in intake temperatures, especially when off-bost isn't a consideration.
Obviously though what we are doing is quite a bit different. We tend to drive at significantly less than full power for the most part, we spend a lot of time at part throttle and we usually only see maximum boost for a few minutes at a time tops. It'd be nuts to be heating our inlet air up to engine coolant temperature the majority of the time.
Anyhow, now that we've got that sorted, was still hoping the OP would chime in with an update after a year of running his AWIC! ;D ;D
Back from the dead, if vanbcguy still cares. The AWIC continues to work great on the Rabbit, though it isn't my daily driver these days. The biggest challenge I have had with it is getting a good pump for the coolant loop. They make pumps specific to the application but they are expensive. Most of the pumps I've tried fail or leak, so anyone doing this should not scrimp on the coolant pump.
-
Ha, very much back from the dead! I did my AWIC probably about 3 years ago now, it's worked quite well. I am running a Bosch pump - more expensive up front but I'm still on my original one with no issues. Cheaper than replacing it again and again...
-
I believe i utilized a shurflow pump in my bug. Thing was awesome but rather expensive
-
I use a Rule 401FC in my setup; it's a bit leaky sometimes, though, so I have to top the system off every so often. Flows nice, though. I'm eventually going to redesign my system (too much charge piping) so I'll probably pick up an entirely different system with a better pump. Also, the liquid mix I run is distilled water from the grocery store with about half a bottle of Water Wetter.
idgtd, which core type are you using, and how did you support it against the rest of the drivetrain? I might think of copying your setup a bit when I do change my system.
-
I got the core from Frozen Boost, but I don't remember exactly which one it is. The core is supported by a bracket to the head, but it's not super rigid.