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General Information => Upgrades (non engine related ) => Topic started by: billybobf on April 08, 2012, 07:48:32 pm
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like the title says, is the ASF a good tranny for a diesel freeway cruiser? I was wondering if the 3.65 or the .71 would make much of an efficiency difference? mostly what I am looking for is if I want to drive 700-3k miles 90% freeway at 75mph what kind of different maybe a 6g would make?
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The ASF (3.67/.75) will net you 3000rpms at 75mph. Kinda high if you expect any economy out of it. Mid 40's should still be achievable.
What car is this for? I would highly recommend that you update your profile to show your location and car driven so that this question need not be asked.. and answers can be given much easier. :D please and thank-you.
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I can do that, lowest you can get is the .71 and the 3.65 right? so .2 and .04 less reduction?
also, currently 89 golf 4door GL with the 1.8 and electric fuel injection DIGIFANT? its a fuel rail and electric injectors.
in progress if I can find parts easy enough, a 1.6 N/A mech head, currently I need a few 3 groove valves, a crank snout bolt, a cam snout bolt, an intermediate shaft with bolt, a front intermediate shaft bearing, the heater outlet on the back of the head, would like a good rear main seal housing (at which point it will get STUDS installed) and a single cam cap bolt (someone replaced mine) and are the 12 point 12mm headbolts stretch bolts? Im missing ONE of them ( I think my last rig was 6pt 12mm?) that is all I can think of for now. thinking about either gasser headers and pretty open exhaust and an open flowing intake (possibly custom with four small engine air filters) Or custom with a snorkel for deep water cruising. currently I have a non motor mount IP bracket, and NO timing covers (would like a full set of those too)
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Going to the .71 5th gear will only drop another ~115rpms, totally not worth the effort..
Yes that is the Digifant FI system.
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like the title says, is the ASF a good tranny for a diesel freeway cruiser? I was wondering if the 3.65 or the .71 would make much of an efficiency difference? mostly what I am looking for is if I want to drive 700-3k miles 90% freeway at 75mph what kind of different maybe a 6g would make?
Jeremy just doesnt like HIGH gears..
but everyone else runs them without issues. they are a BIT HIGH for a n/a, but it works. they give you a shifter for a reason.. to shift.
and with this trans, you will be shifting. i drive everywhere in 5th gear, but the bigger hills, like more than a mile long, i shift into 4th and head up the hills, 4000 revs @ ~60mph... barely any throttle required to keep the car going at that point. sometimes i have to use 3rd gear, and reduced speed if i got a BIG load on the trailer..
my gasser has 85hp.. thats NOT MUCH MORE than a stock TD, or modified n/a...
but one thing the diesel will ALWAYS have more of, is TORQUE..
and yes, the electronic injection is DIGIFANT 2.. more affectionately named digifart, digifizz, yadda yadda.. its truely a HORRBILE injection system.. nothing like the super reliable CIS system that will run with the ECU un plugged..
thats always blown me away.. an injection system that will run with none of its electronics hooked up. its not gonna run good, but its gonna get you home.. not quite a diesel, but the next best thing!
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yeah right now that stupid idle valve ($200 plus) is pissing me off on the car, If I diesel swap the plan will be for an I-5 cruiser/I-10 cruiser. with MINIMAL weight load. I wouldnt mind having the 6g code. at this point after talking to you guys, I might go eco boost with a shim in the gov.
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Jeremy just doesnt like HIGH gears..
Love high gears, just not close ratio on a diesel.
my gasser has 85hp.. thats NOT MUCH MORE than a stock TD, or modified n/a...
but one thing the diesel will ALWAYS have more of, is TORQUE..
Unless it is a TDI then no, it won't lol. Your 1.8 85hp also has 98ft.lbs of torque, which is more than the 1.6TD
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Jeremy just doesnt like HIGH gears..
Love high gears, just not close ratio on a diesel.
my gasser has 85hp.. thats NOT MUCH MORE than a stock TD, or modified n/a...
but one thing the diesel will ALWAYS have more of, is TORQUE..
Unless it is a TDI then no, it won't lol. Your 1.8 85hp also has 98ft.lbs of torque, which is more than the 1.6TD
who said ANYTHING about CLOSE RATIO?!
the tall geared trannies are WIDE RATIO TRANNIES..
the low geared trannies are close ratio. GTIs, 16vs and such all got the close ratio boxes. diesels and low power gas got the wide ratio box.
wide ratio means there is a larger RPM difference between gears. (rpms drop ALOT between shifts) [usually equipped with a LOW 5th gear]
close ratio means there is a smaller RPM difference between gears.. (rpms hardly drop between shifts) [usually equipped with a HIGH 5th gear]
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A CLOSE RATIO TALL GEARED TRANS..
so, again Jer, who said anything about a close ratio?
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The ACN is not as close as the actual close ratio boxes .. but it is dam near the same gearing.
I just prefer taller gearing than what the ACN offers.
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The ACN is not as close as the actual close ratio boxes .. but it is dam near the same gearing.
I just prefer taller gearing than what the ACN offers.
dude, ACN is the HIGHEST trans VW ever offered in the 020...
how you going to get higher gears than that WITHOUT an 02A swap?
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The AGS from what I gather has the longest separation between gears, but it has stock a 3.94 ring and pinion. I swapped mine to 3.67 and with the power I had I still could shift 1,3,5 if I wanted. I agree that the ACN had the highest gear from the factory and would really love to try one.
close ratio is what my one year only 2H is. It sucks, and I am pulling it for whatever reason, maybe an autocross guy will want it, but it is tied with the closest gears of all VW trans. The ONLY way it could get worse is if they put the 4.25 ring gear in it instead of the 3.94 it came with.
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dang, just blow it all up in here.... so Im guessing that my asf with the 3.67 and .75 will be just fine and dandy.... otherwise sounds like my best bet would be to find the oddball 6g
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dang, just blow it all up in here.... so Im guessing that my asf with the 3.67 and .75 will be just fine and dandy.... otherwise sounds like my best bet would be to find the oddball 6g
You had a good topic, one that spouted lots of discussion. Nobody got riled up, no name calling, no racial slurs. Just good clean discussion. Amen fella's.
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The AGS from what I gather has the longest separation between gears, but it has stock a 3.94 ring and pinion. I swapped mine to 3.67 and with the power I had I still could shift 1,3,5 if I wanted. I agree that the ACN had the highest gear from the factory and would really love to try one.
close ratio is what my one year only 2H is. It sucks, and I am pulling it for whatever reason, maybe an autocross guy will want it, but it is tied with the closest gears of all VW trans. The ONLY way it could get worse is if they put the 4.25 ring gear in it instead of the 3.94 it came with.
Lucas
you would LOVE an ACN trans.. they are dee shizznit.. the only difference from what you have now, and an ACN is that 1-4 on an ACN are slightly farther apart.
i think a stock ACN would be better than a stock AGS..
after i figured out what an ACN was, and how cool they were, i was IN LOVE..
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AGS (86-90 1.6 Diesel) 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75
ASF, AON, ACN, ACL (8v) 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.37 1.03 0.75
From what I see my AGS has the 3.67, so R&P, 1st, and 2nd are the same. 3rd is mildly farther away from 2nd (.08) and 4th is mildly farther away (.38) from 3rd than the ACN. The AGS is mildly closer to the fifth at .16, than the ACN at .28. I do have two .71 gears that if I really wanted to could make that difference .20, but IMHO the .04 isn't worth it right now.
...I still want an ACN though. I do believe you with the ACN.
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I would think it weird to go through the work for someone to have put the 3.67 into your agn but not put in a .71 at the same time
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Not really. This way he was able to determine if the trans and ratios met his needs and desires without going all the way out on a limb. Once you start messing with this stuff, it is a matter of personal preference.
The difference between the two 5th's is just about non-existent.
Themanski can install his 0.71 any time he wants with minimal work. Prudence is king. It will give his ol' lady something else to scream about! ;D
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Id love to do the .71 swap, but not to worried about the R&P
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I have figured it out.. My M-TDI just has too much torque under 2500rpms. With the ACN being the widest set of gears, I kid you not it feels like I am driving my old close ratio 1.7 gasser. The lighter 020 clutch assembly (nearly half the weight it seems) to that of the 02A definitely makes it spin up a lot faster. I can accelerate in 5th at 1400rpms it is retarded.
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Told you.
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Told you.
Blah BLah Blah./ lol
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For me when you have it split and down to nothing that is the time to do the R&P. As Dakotakid said, I can swap one of my .71 anytime. And for the .04 difference I figured it wasn't worth it. Now having 40,000 miles on it I do think a higher 5th would be nice, but I would want something more like a .685...but they don't make it for 020. Maybe someday when I am bored I will or if the housing or gear gives it up.
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I think a .6 would be cool wonder how hard it would be to get a .6 custom cut for the 020, wonder if you could sell many of them... especially if they were hardened and cryo'd for long life. they would be good for even the lowest geared R&P, then for everyone else, the .71 might become more available? to those who need it?
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Don't know. I have many amish that would cut them, and I have a woman I do side work for that has a cryo unit and would process them cheap for me...Get me the specs LOL.
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Don't know. I have many amish that would cut them, and I have a woman I do side work for that has a cryo unit and would process them cheap for me...Get me the specs LOL.
get it done!!
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that would be sweet.
lots of custom applications, it would make a nice fifth for a wide ratio cars looking for a nice OD ... or if you have a true work horse caddy, you could do close ratio and low R&P for loaded, 1-4 gears, and then a tall custom fifth for 2-4-5 shifting unloaded highway type driving.
one other cool option (for those who overthink as bad as I do) would be for an awd you could turn the transaxle and mount it to a reasonable geared pair of axles like dana44 with 3.07 gears and some 35" plus tires (would make cool trailered samurai vw project) using the ACN with a custom tall fifth
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idk how well this A V X(im swapping a k14 powered td motor) im gonna be running will do with weight but the A W Y kinda sucked i think actually it just sucks all around esp if you wanna go over 65 and want to be able to talk on he phone. debating on what to do. Transmission stuff confuses me to no end. I do pull weight quite a bit and plan on doing some heavy road tripping(literally and figuratively) in the next few years to.
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see and that AVX would be GREAT with a .5-.6 ish fifth gear, otherwise you might not like that 4.25 R&P much
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yea if i get ambitious enough for a 1200 dollar gearbox ill have brokevw work some magic on my tray. until then im gonna replace all the seals i can get to without cracking open the trans.
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I think VW went with the 4.25 in an attempt to absolutely minimize any lag in the KKK 14. The problem is, the boost fizzles out so early. It revs up and you abruptly hit a wall and you've just really started to move.
The choice may also have been to minimize emissions as well. At any rate it is annoying as hell unless you do the urban thing all the time.
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what kind of boost is a stock k14 pushing at 65?
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For boost it will be somewhere between 0 and 13psi. Depending on load and right foot at the 65mph mark. I would guess for nothing interesting/cruise I would "guess" 5psi. I am just guessing from what my k24 did and I have never owned a k14.
If you have an avx and want to take it to brokevw, you could trade him your 4.25 R&P for a 3.94. Then you would have an AGS. Or swap to the other higher ratio ring and pinion and have a custom like I do.
He might give you a little coin for the 4.25 as that is what the 16v guys are wanting. He also said something about the autocross guys like that one too. That is something you would have to talk to him about though.
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Going to a 3.94 i would lose only 200 rpm at 65. With the 3.67 id lose about 400 or so. But I've also read that with a 3.67 and a k14 it might lag but i really don't care about going fast especially driving around town(just want the turbo for the swirl and potential increase of efficiency and occasional speed) the only time i care about speed is when i need to pass someone in traffic. I'm trying to get the lowest rpm with maximum speed. Im starting to get better at this gear ration thing. Maybe someone on here thats a good mathematician could figure out this figure though. i know peoples fuel mileage varies from say 38mpg to about 55mpg but it would be interesting to see what potential mileage would be by dropping rpms cruising at 65 down by 500. Im getting a consistent 47mpg at 3000 rpms averaging sixty with an AWY(185/65 r14 tires and a 3.94 w/ .89 5th). make sense?
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I got the best mileage with the skinny 155/80 r13 tires. I think the entire deal with this is put the engine RPMs where it is going to be right around or a little below peak torque. Since our engines make almost peak probably around 2,200 we probably get the best milage right around there in any given gear. I could be off, but that is how it seems on my rides. Even more so on gas engines.
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I got the best mileage with the skinny 155/80 r13 tires. I think the entire deal with this is put the engine RPMs where it is going to be right around or a little below peak torque. Since our engines make almost peak probably around 2,200 we probably get the best milage right around there in any given gear. I could be off, but that is how it seems on my rides. Even more so on gas engines.
i need to get a tach so i can explore this idea more.
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wind resistance and engine power play a big part too. You wouldn't do well in an RV that makes good torque around 2,500 and putting a .5 OD gear in it. Then trying to get somewhere slightly uphill with a head wind. Around 65 and under is where I found my jetta wasn't affected by the wind. Over that and it seems to really start pushing the air. And the engine is turning more RPM too.
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whelp got a lock on an asf for 200 hundred from a reputable source. worth a shot eh?
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hmm, I paid 250 for an ASF, with new CV shafts on both sides of it, with an 8v digi2 complete attached to it... shoot even came with a car attached to it, lol, then it cost me 86 bucks to register it for just over a year, and 77 bucks for a title, lol.
but seems 200 bucks isnt bad if its in good shape, and the ASF is most likely going to have the 100mm flanges and regular seals on both sides right? not green sleeves?
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hmm, I paid 250 for an ASF, with new CV shafts on both sides of it, with an 8v digi2 complete attached to it... shoot even came with a car attached to it, lol, then it cost me 86 bucks to register it for just over a year, and 77 bucks for a title, lol.
but seems 200 bucks isnt bad if its in good shape, and the ASF is most likely going to have the 100mm flanges and regular seals on both sides right? not green sleeves?
i paid 200 for an ACN.. it came with a broken axle, and come to think of it, the trans even came with an engine! (and an 86 Golf)
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I paid $50 for my ACN. $25 for the .71 5th gear i purchased with it as well. $30 to reseal it completely, BAM.
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I paid $50 for my ACN. $25 for the .71 5th gear i purchased with it as well. $30 to reseal it completely, BAM.
well aren't you just lucky :o :o :o
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I did a 3.42 with / .71 ff final
Dont ask what I paid for the 3.42 new set....
Later...
GB
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I did a 3.42 with / .71 ff final
Dont ask what I paid for the 3.42 new set....
Later...
GB
niiice
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I have a 8A which has the 3.67 R&P and a AVX which has the 4.25 R&P - thought about substituting the 8A R&P into the AVX and the gearing results would be exactly same as CHD - how difficult is it to swap out R&Ps - what special tools would I need? Or maybe I should just keep looking for a good used CHD - but hard to find!
I have read before that it is a good idea to replace some rivits ARP bolts - can anyone coment on this? I have been thinking of coupling a mTDI up to my AVX/8A tranny but wonder if the extra torque would be too much for such a hybrid?
If I use the 100mm flanges off of the 8A on AVX I can install the (http://peloquins.com/products_80.html) a $100 Peloquin 80% LSD shim kit - would this not be a good idea?
What extra dudty clutch could I get to go with 020 trans and still hold up to mTDI and what is the lowest recomended flywheel weight to couple up to mTDI - say like 11lbs? My plan is to put into an 81 VW Rabbit Pickup and use as truck as well as daily driver.
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My son is planing on putting a 1.6TD from a 92 Ecodiesel into an 82 Caddy - I have looked but does anyone one know of any threads or conversions or info that I can shoot his way in that he will be trying to figure out if he should keep the AVX or late FF in Caddy to be used as daily driver? Maybe it depends - the AVX might be funner to drive around town - maybe more like a close ratio 16V but of course not so much fun when it come to highway - do you think it is possible that the every now and then highway use with tall FF might outweigh the in town yahoo driving with AVX if there is not that much difference anyway in town between the two? What do others say that have more exprience at this?
He also was asking me about going serpentine - is the crank nose pulley strong that comes on the 1.6TD Ecodiesels to handle the extra stress of serpentine verses V belts system? I know the 1.6NAs woodruf key was not.
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He will want a tdi crank sprocket. Use the ff trans!
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He will want a tdi crank sprocket. Use the ff trans!
x2 on that ^