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General Information => Upgrades (non engine related ) => Topic started by: blackbird82 on March 01, 2011, 06:02:41 pm
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PSA 3.450 1.790 1.130 0.830 0.680 4.110 VW Fox 5 Speed
anyone know anything about this transmisssion, if the 5th can be used in a 020?
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Doubt it, not the same trans at all, different internals, and gear stack. Not impossible, but i would have thought that if it was, we would have heard by now.
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I think the most popular 5th swap is the .71 5th for the 020 trans. If you really wanted to get down to it you could alter tire size and maybe the final drive some to get the same effect as a .68 5th.
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That extra .3 between .68 and .71 isn't as much as one would think.. It will probably drop your engine 200 rpms if that at cruising speeds.. Which isn't going to do diddly for the mileage, maybe a point and a half.
Just find a trans with the .75 or .71 5th, it will suffice.
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Find a 3.32 R &P gear set
GB
Find two and I will pay for both
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Find a 3.32 R &P gear set
GB
Find two and I will pay for both
;D Here you go:
http://www.bildon.com/catalog/DetailsList.cfm?ID=10.309.3321&Nav=5
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isnt bildon motorsports kinda flaky?
i remember Owen and Eddy bought clutches, and both had problems with how long it took to get their items?
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Don't quote me, but I've heard that the 5th gear from a Dodge Omni is an .68 and will fit on the VW 02O tranys.
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I don't recall if the Omni/Horizon got the 020 trans, but they did only get 4 speeds with the VW 1.7 engine..
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Maybe that was it.
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IIRC they had like a .88 4th and a 2.96 final drive.. I know it was fairly steep.. More I think about it they might have been some variety of 020 as I think they have the same clutch kit...
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yea the colts had a bunch of different ratios for the 1.7. I know the 020's have the same gear sets internally except for the final drive. .71 is easy to find in those boxes.
RE:Bildon, yes Eddy did get his clutch from them after much grief.
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I don't recall if the Omni/Horizon got the 020 trans, but they did only get 4 speeds with the VW 1.7 engine..
i think they got a 4 speed trans, because ive seen one of the trannies, and it looks just like a VW 020, just with different axle flanges..
dunno anything about the gears tho.. never seen one up close, or held one, or torn one apart..
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I already have a tranny with .75 and would kill for the 400 rpms that a .68 would give.
My engine cruises with power to spare at any speed.
I usually drive around 125 kmph, and thats in the 3200 rpm range buzzin
.68 would put me at 2750, major difference
and in summer i run 17's with 205/40ZR17's and it gives about 5 klicks over the speedo on speed
and I still pull 800 k to a tank!
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I already have a tranny with .75 and would kill for the 400 rpms that a .68 would give.
My engine cruises with power to spare at any speed.
I usually drive around 125 kmph, and thats in the 3200 rpm range buzzin
.68 would put me at 2750, major difference
and in summer i run 17's with 205/40ZR17's and it gives about 5 klicks over the speedo on speed
and I still pull 800 k to a tank!
there is no such 5th gear for a 020 transmixer tho..
you have a MUCH GREATER chance of seeing god, rather than getting anything higher than a .71 fifth gear for a VW 020..
fox/dasher transmissions are so much different from rabbit/jetta/golf transmissions.. theres no way the 5th gear swaps.. someone would have done it by now if it were possible..
only trannys with low LOW r&p gears (the fox box has 4.11:1 ratio :o) got the .68 fifth gear..
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Well no matter what your gears, you will never see god.
Ah well. I could wish eh. Its too bad, I wonder how bad my CHD would run with that 3.32 R & P
my 94 AAZ Jetta is totally undergeared for its torque range and power.
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dont wanna go for too high of a gear set.. then it will be counter-productive to your economy..
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my 94 AAZ Jetta is totally undergeared for its torque range and power.
What a terrible problem to have.
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I already have a tranny with .75 and would kill for the 400 rpms that a .68 would give.
My engine cruises with power to spare at any speed.
I usually drive around 125 kmph, and thats in the 3200 rpm range buzzin
.68 would put me at 2750, major difference
and in summer i run 17's with 205/40ZR17's and it gives about 5 klicks over the speedo on speed
and I still pull 800 k to a tank!
.75->.68 would drop you from 3200->2900 (about 10%). What final drive are you running? I put a 3.67 final drive gear set (replacing the stock 3.89) in my FN transaxle (0.71 5th) for about a 6% RPM drop. I think that puts me at 2650RPM @ 70MPH w/ 185-70R13s (23.2" tall - your tires are about 23.4" tall) or at 125KPH(77.5MPH), about 2925RPM.
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My tranny does run the 3.67 its a CHD code.
with a .75. Sad thing is, last august the 5th went from a low oil situation ( output shaft seals leaked and started leakin faster than I could keep up with)!
Long story short I had a shop redo the transmission, all new bearings throughout and new 5th. I asked about puttin in a .71 and the guy there didn't know much about it (he was a great transmission tech, just not a VW junkie like us)
that woulda been the time to do it.
anywho I will keep drivin. I like to keep the rpm no higher than 3000. just purrs
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my GTI had 3.67 gears and a .75 fifth gear..
it would do right about 3000 @ 80 mph..
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GTI's are great cars! I have been slowly converting my diesel Jetta to a GTD, basicallly a GTI with a diesel.
Slow process.
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GTI's are great cars! I have been slowly converting my diesel Jetta to a GTD, basicallly a GTI with a diesel.
Slow process.
no, not even close to a GTI with a diesel, its still a jetta.. hahaha ;D
kidding aside, when i build a TDI GTI, im never going to need another car as long as i live.. 8)
i dunno what it is with me and my never ending love affair for mk2 GTIs..
my GTI also had an ACN (base model golf and jetta trans) transmixer swapped in it.. the 9A trans was retarded.. 3000 revs at 60 mph..
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what else do I need? I am going full polyeurethene bushings all around. a thicker front sway bar
no height difference but stiffer spring rates ( I hate lowered cars or jacked trucks)
and aftermarket brakes and rotors, and 205ZR17 sticky yokohama's!
My biggest beef is the amount of movementthe engine does even with brand new VW sourced engine mounts all around, on the front one, I even shimmed the bottom bolt to put preload on it. and still moves like a bugger!
too much torque, need a spring/shock dogbone mount at the head to keep it tight!
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They moved from the factory lol. Somehow most of them made it 30 years... Lol
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what else do I need? I am going full polyeurethene bushings all around. a thicker front sway bar
no height difference but stiffer spring rates ( I hate lowered cars or jacked trucks)
and aftermarket brakes and rotors, and 205ZR17 sticky yokohama's!
My biggest beef is the amount of movementthe engine does even with brand new VW sourced engine mounts all around, on the front one, I even shimmed the bottom bolt to put preload on it. and still moves like a bugger!
too much torque, need a spring/shock dogbone mount at the head to keep it tight!
Shiiiiiiiz...
ever looked at a mk1 engine move around? especially a mk1 engine with some ballz? they move ALOT..and my car has mostly brand new mounts..
mk2 engines dont hardly move compared to a mk1..
i drove my GTI to 350k miles, and it still had the stock engine mounts.. i didnt know how bad they were till i got a car with half that many miles..
if you dont want your engine to move, weld it in there, or take the rubber mounts out and use solid pieces of spun aluminum..
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oh movement is good, don't get me wrong. and you can't compare a GTI to a diesel.
A billion times less harmonic vibrations
just need a upper torque limiting arm
my ol" 91 Lumina Z34 had one. had rubber bushings went right at the top.
any twist the engine does is power wasted!
I'll figure it out, already made my own load sensing timing advance off of the boost signal
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oh movement is good, don't get me wrong. and you can't compare a GTI to a diesel.
A billion times less harmonic vibrations
just need a upper torque limiting arm
my ol" 91 Lumina Z34 had one. had rubber bushings went right at the top.
any twist the engine does is power wasted!
I'll figure it out, already made my own load sensing timing advance off of the boost signal
on a VE pump? dont they already have an advance mechanism?
controlled by the governor, witch in turn is controlled by boost?
anyway, how did you do it?
and i wouldnt be worried about the dog bone mount, i would be more worried about somewhere sturdy enough to mount it.. passenger side shock tower is about the only choice you get, unless you went from the oil pan to the sub frame.. (hey, that sounds like a pretty good idea actually!)
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the advance on a VE pump is controlled by the vane pump and housing pressure
on the newer VE pumps, the ones on the AAZ's with the solenoid (load dependant KB or whatever) they have a switch that turns timing advance off with throttle position (the solenoid just bypasses the pressure to the advance piston)
throttle position though doesn't really take into account load
so I used a switch from a NOS system (13 dollars) and tied it into my LDA feed
when the car is below 5 psi(light cruising) its quiet
as soon as you accelerate and hit 6psi the advance kicks in
its cool to hear it go on and off.
before i did it with the swithc on throttle position it would advance and make a lot of noise doin light city drivin
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i *THINK* that you get better mileage with a little more advance..
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Of course you do get better mileage with advance, I never questioned that.
I just wanted quiet when casually cruising slowly, and when I am on the highway or doing anything that needs load it turns the advance on.
Oh, and don't ever confuse the governor on a VE pump with having anything to do with boost.
its completely controlled by speed, ie centrifugal forces.
I really enjoy this setup, but I have another AAZ engine I got(not running) gonna tear it apart this summer if I find a weekend and see what its like.
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truth be told I believe the next thing to better mileage on my motor is exhaust restriction due to too small of a turbo.
Mine has the garret T2 and I put in an adjustable wastegate.
When cruising at 110k the boost is around 8psi, but i dont think it needs to be. If I spike the throttle to pop open the waste gate and go back to where I was on the throttle the car seems to run better at around 6psi, then slowly the boost creeps up as if the waste gate closes. Maybe spring pressure is strong or the diaphragm leaks a bit.
Either way I found that when I set my waste to 18psi with my boost controller, versus shutting it and leaving it in stock wastegate oepration. my mileage suffered. This was over lots of tanks! haha 120km a day for the last 4 years.
But when I want power in town or anywhere, I set the boost to around 18 or so and vroom!
I think cruising it would be better to have as little boost as possible to reduce exhaust manifold pressure, similar to the way a variable gate turbo works.
Now my mind is at the task of figuring this out on an old car, with a tiny budget!
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I've seen guys playing with a lawn mower throttle cable to control a vnt turbo on wheeling trips. One of the JDM toyota diesel guys has a vnt rigged into his diesel. He has the vanes open or about 1/8 shut on the trails when creeping and closes them fully on the highway once up to speed.
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I've seen guys playing with a lawn mower throttle cable to control a vnt turbo on wheeling trips. One of the JDM toyota diesel guys has a vnt rigged into his diesel. He has the vanes open or about 1/8 shut on the trails when creeping and closes them fully on the highway once up to speed.
that makes no sense.. so he has no boost at all on the trails, but is making like 15 psi going down the road when its not needed?
vanes closed = 45psi if you arent careful (position at idle on a TDI)
vanes open = 15-20 psi unless you REALLY got some fuel.. (position when @ WOT on a TDI)
when they are open, they point about directly at the turbine.. basically at a 90* angle.
when they are closed, the tip of one vane is about touching the tip of the other vane.. not even pointing towards the turbine.
if you close the vanes on a VNT and really get on it, there will be soo much EMP, and boost that something will let go. i blew a head off a block at one point, because i closed the vanes on my turbo too much, they werent even fully closed..
with the vanes fully closed, your engine will make 30 psi by 1800 rpms, but not have ANY POWER at all.. theres too much pressure holding it back..
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I've seen guys playing with a lawn mower throttle cable to control a vnt turbo on wheeling trips. One of the JDM toyota diesel guys has a vnt rigged into his diesel. He has the vanes open or about 1/8 shut on the trails when creeping and closes them fully on the highway once up to speed.
that makes no sense.. so he has no boost at all on the trails, but is making like 15 psi going down the road when its not needed?
vanes closed = 45psi if you arent careful (position at idle on a TDI)
vanes open = 15-20 psi unless you REALLY got some fuel.. (position when @ WOT on a TDI)
when they are open, they point about directly at the turbine.. basically at a 90* angle.
when they are closed, the tip of one vane is about touching the tip of the other vane.. not even pointing towards the turbine.
if you close the vanes on a VNT and really get on it, there will be soo much EMP, and boost that something will let go. i blew a head off a block at one point, because i closed the vanes on my turbo too much, they werent even fully closed..
with the vanes fully closed, your engine will make 30 psi by 1800 rpms, but not have ANY POWER at all.. theres too much pressure holding it back..
the way I understood what he was saying is that he had low to no boost on the trail, as the torque from the diesel in the low end got him up and over obsticles. The boost on the highway was to pass easier. I guess when we idle pretty much all day up here in the rocks and trees boost isn't really needed. If we were mudding he'd want the boost to keep the tires turning.
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yea, see, i do alot of wheelin, not much crawlin..and i guess you dont need any boost when you have 42 transfer cases and go 2 mph wound to the bolts in low range.. (LMFAO)
my off road truck, i almost never use low range, and if i do, its in second gear.
i gotta keep my tires burnin to get thru alot of the mud we got here.. toyota V6's work good in the mud @ 7000rpms..
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still though on the highway vanes closed is insane, it would actually be counterproductive.
You would have so much EMP that it would actually slow you down.
You want all the boost you need and the LEAST amount of restriction.
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Rabbit on Roids, you one of the few guys on here that really gets it.
Proud of ya
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Rabbit on Roids, you one of the few guys on here that really gets it.
Proud of ya
do you have any idea how many people on this forum have told me otherwise? LMFAO..
ive had a FEW vnt turbos apart. i know how they work, and what the vanes do when open and closed..
i used to have a cable controlled VNT, it was a cable with a T handle.. you could use it as an exhaust brake, or use it to adjust boost. thats why i KNOW that it is not ideal to have the vanes closed down for driving down the road.. you want the least back pressure possible for any amount of given boost..
when i was young and stupid, i just set the vanes pretty much closed, and it went good, but got bad mileage, and i ended up grenading that engine.. almost lost the head off it.
anyways, thanks for the compliment! i appreciate it. ;)
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The John Deere system for there VGT (Variable gate Turbo) which is similar to the VNT turbos, use a eletronic stepper motor to operate the gate(vanes).
They use a load sensing system based on transmission output
when you are goin full throttle under full load, they are NEVER closed!
They only close at idle, I've watched the screen when doing power tests. idle closed, load and hit the throttle, they open just slightly like 80 percent closed, then as the motor revs up they open more, the more load the more open they are because you so much fuel goin into the engine. at full throttle as the load backs off they only close if and I mean if boost drops from less fuel, but that hardly ever happens.
THis is why I am tryin to get my wastegate to open more on the highway. I want less boost under light load, a nice balance between boost and exhaust backpressure.
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The John Deere system for there VGT (Variable gate Turbo) which is similar to the VNT turbos, use a eletronic stepper motor to operate the gate(vanes).
They use a load sensing system based on transmission output
when you are goin full throttle under full load, they are NEVER closed!
They only close at idle, I've watched the screen when doing power tests. idle closed, load and hit the throttle, they open just slightly like 80 percent closed, then as the motor revs up they open more, the more load the more open they are because you so much fuel goin into the engine. at full throttle as the load backs off they only close if and I mean if boost drops from less fuel, but that hardly ever happens.
THis is why I am tryin to get my wastegate to open more on the highway. I want less boost under light load, a nice balance between boost and exhaust backpressure.
Regcheeseman has a setup similar to this.. its a pretty awesome design really.
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I wonder if a T3 would be better for highway cruising, must flow waaay better through the larger turbo. than my T2. hmm wonder if its a bolt on
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I wonder if a T3 would be better for highway cruising, must flow waaay better through the larger turbo. than my T2. hmm wonder if its a bolt on
T2 and T3 should be interchangeable, manifold wise. dunno about oil lines and charge piping..
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The John Deere system for there VGT (Variable gate Turbo)...
IDK what JD calls it but I have always read in Holset and Garrets literature that it is Variable Geometry Turbo, as the geometry of the vanes change.
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Yeah those are different, like most things JD has their own things. On a John deere turbo the vanes do not twist like in a lot of applications. IN fact the housing is wider than a standard turbo and the vanes are a set angle and they move in and out!
They use it for their EGR and emissions systems. they close the turbo to make excessive EMP and forcde exhaust gas into the EGR cooler.
trick eh? oh and they have a speed sensor on the turbo itself, you can watch it like a tach, some hit 120,000 rpm. Now that would be a cool dash gauge.
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Yeah, that is like the Holset HE351 on the Cummins trucks. It has a 22cm housing and a thing in the housing opens and closes the hole wher the exhaust enters and hits the vanes. Pretty neat tech. The VNT is what I have heard called VVT, variable vane turbo.
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Yeah those are different, like most things JD has their own things. On a John deere turbo the vanes do not twist like in a lot of applications. IN fact the housing is wider than a standard turbo and the vanes are a set angle and they move in and out!
They use it for their EGR and emissions systems. they close the turbo to make excessive EMP and forcde exhaust gas into the EGR cooler.
trick eh? oh and they have a speed sensor on the turbo itself, you can watch it like a tach, some hit 120,000 rpm. Now that would be a cool dash gauge.
ive heard the small VNTs hit about 250k rpms.. like the VNT 15 and 17..
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that could be, i've never seen a deere one over 150K rpm
these are mostly on 125 to 285 hp applications i work on
the 12.5 and 13.5 liter 6 cylinder motors are goin twin turbo this year
sequential
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that could be, i've never seen a deere one over 150K rpm
these are mostly on 125 to 285 hp applications i work on
the 12.5 and 13.5 liter 6 cylinder motors are goin twin turbo this year
sequential
so they took a look at the IH ones and improved em? I know they had fuelling issues to the tune of 4 mpg loaded or empty.
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ummm, they went sequential for emissions, want no smoke at all. Each turbo has VGT controller. And they are the same size, not one bigger one smaller. As for IH I don't know. Haven't seen there stuff since the 7.3
And in Ag apps we never talk mpg its Gallons per hour!
FOr instance a 9870 combine with a 530 hp 13.5 Liter Inline 6 doin full load of hard to thrash wheat will suck back 24 Gallons per hour.
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roughly 15 gallons per hour on the highway. The older trucks were 7 to 10 mpg. People worry about emmissions yet they are willing to make zero emmission fuel sucking monsters.
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i dont get it, why make them burn twice as much fuel, just to keep them clean?!
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i dont get it, why make them burn twice as much fuel, just to keep them clean?!
cuz the tree huggers are niave to this fact. They just don't want eveil dirty diesel. They want happy clean thirsty diesels because what you don't see or know makes then happy and fuzzy.
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cuz the tree huggers are niave to this fact. They just don't want eveil dirty diesel. They want happy clean thirsty diesels because what you don't see or know makes then happy and fuzzy.
Hence the reason the Prius is so well loved by the "greenies"
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Yeah, read an article about batteries, the big lithium ion kind in hydrids and electrics. I know my diesel is dirty, but also I know that it was built in 1993. And has been goin strong since
These electric cars batteries, I often wonder about how much mining and processing to make the precious metal in them. How much Carbon does that put out? Does a Prius ever balance it's existance out?
basically a car is a car, but in my case its body, simple engine done.
THey have the whole battery issue and all the carbon it takes to manufacture it extra on top of a regular car
Do they ever balance themselves out?
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From what I've read and researched, barely if you're lucky.. Your chances are better with an H1 Hummer..
For JUST the batteries:
Nickel mined in Canada, the mine site is such an enviornmental disaster that NASA used the abandoned sites to test Mars rovers.. Nickel is boated to China.. Why China?? It's cheap, and the process is so toxic that most country's EPA won' allow it.. Then shipped to Korea to be made Nickel foam, cheap labor.. THEN shipped to Japan to be made into batteries.. And finally back to the US.....
Much cleaner than my diesel soot.. At this point, even the hard core tree huggers agree, it's not the best option...
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Haha I know where they mine the nickel. THompson and Flin Flon Manitoba!
My brother played junior pro hockey in Flin Flon. THey got a lake in the middle of town called Ross lake that is so polluted that no one, NO ONE can go near it. Big Fence put up.
Yeah my idea of future is a car like the Volt, with no batteries. Just a diesel, and a generator and electric drives. Run my car like a train, with two engine speed settings, idle and power generation.
Trains are the second most efficient diesel devices we have, they are rated at 400 tonne per gallon of fuel. Thats movement to fuel used.
Highway tractors are waaaay lower around 160!
Big dirty ocean ships? Are the most efficient devices we build. around the 1200 tonne per gallon used ratio.
Makes you think eh?
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Makes you think eh?
I'm beyond thinking, it's just disgusting.. My question has been repeatedly, if hybrids are so great, why don't they build diesel hybrids?? I suppose that makes too much sense...
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Haha I know where they mine the nickel. THompson and Flin Flon Manitoba!
My brother played junior pro hockey in Flin Flon. THey got a lake in the middle of town called Ross lake that is so polluted that no one, NO ONE can go near it. Big Fence put up.
You forgot the "Big Nickel" in sudbury... Although I will say I was there last year and there's been a major improvement in the environment. It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than it was!
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Yeah a diesel hybrid would be sweeet. If a new Jetta TDi was hybrid oh jeez, it would be unbelievable.
But maybe VW is taking the morale high ground by not building horrible toxic batteries.
Who knows.
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Scuzzbury er Sudbury doesn't look like a lunar landscape anymore. The huge problem is that nothing grows in slag and they have the options of stripping a layer off the forest when they strip cut. They stopped clear cutting up here because of erosion factors. They basically are moving soil right now from the highway projects. Topsoil isn't put under roads. I like the fact we can make oil from organic sources and recover used oils as fuel for our cars, plus thumb our noses at those "hybrids".
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From what I read, a generators efficiency range is around 2400-3000 RPMs, well out of the diesel range. The way I heard described is there is a gear box to turn the generators in the locomotives which is why they have HUGE torque numbers so they can turn enough generator RPMs for the right hertz....
Just what I remember either reading/hearing/internet gossip....
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Well on trains they use 2 stroke diesels, or at least they did up to 2006. And 2 strokes run in that range of efficiency
and it don't matter if you use a gearbox, gears multiply torque, they don't multiply horsepower.
The power into those generators even geared is the single most efficienct use of a diesel engine.
Get the right gearing, spin the generator at its required speed, use an isochronos governor. ( look that up!)
and bamm super efficiency
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use an isochronos governor. ( look that up!)
I did! ;D I know it as a load governor. Adjusts fuel/RPM to load.