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Engine Specific Info and Questions => Diesel Swaps => Topic started by: thegimpster on February 20, 2013, 11:57:07 am
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I bought this caddy with a AHU in it off a friend. When I got it it was running but using a 1.6 N/A pump on it and the cam was 180 out. The turbo wasn't hooked up, just sitting back there sucking debris. Don't ask me how it was running, but it was. I pulled the pump off of it and put a mTDI pump on it I got with another car. The info that I got on the pump was that it was an AAZ pump with TDI internals. The easy mtdi pump option basically.
I got it running with the new pump. Swapped out the injector on #3 to a normal TDI one and replaced the oil pump of a turbo in the back with a mk2 td one. The compressor side of it was swapped with the pinwheel and snail shell off of a Volvo Garrette turbo. It is intercooled too.
The problem I am having is that I have to ream balls on it to get 6 lbs of boost. And even at that i can only get up to 60mph. And that is pedal to the floor. I know the wastegate on the turbo is stuck closed. But since i'm not developing boost yet i havent addressed that. My transmission code is an FN
Yesterday and today i have been messing with the pump. I swapped a 1.6 TD boost pin into it with the LDA top and spring with it. I adjusted the fuel screw up and the idle screw down to compensate for it. Tried advancing and retarding the timing too.
I thought about putting bigger injectors in it, but want to exhaust all other options with the parts I have before dropping some cash. My other thought was to take the Turbo diesel pump i have and the TDI pump i have and make a new pump to put on there so i know for sure of what i have in case the pump i am using is just a generic AAZ pump with nothing done to it.
Few other things ill add to just for more info, I have a 2.5' exhaust all the way back with no muffler that is a few weeks old. AAZ intake manifold with new gasket on it. Boost connectors are tight and intercooler appears to be good. I also bypassed it and got the same ammount of boost. The boost reading is taken from a T in the line from the LDA to the manifold and i have used 2 different gauges.
I have debated building a water meth setup for this and probably will after i get everything ironed out
Thats about all i can think of. I have tried to figure it out and read a lot of postings before asking questions, but i'm about out of ideas so i'm asking. If you guys have any ideas, no matter how obsure throw them at me. I am a VW mechanic. I have like 30 cars and more in parts so I've got a lot of stuff at my disposal. Eventually it will get a cable clutch, rod shift o2j i have sitting around as well as coilovers and an axle flip. just gotta get the motor right first.
Thanks,
Ryan
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6psi ain't the main problem. A duffer NA can best 60mph.
Any smoke? Grey or black?
What you got for compression on each cylinder?
What's the break pressure on each injector? (You can't really time with precision until the break pressures are close.)
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Wrong spline?
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The injectors are stock AHU, whatever the pressure on those is. Its hard to tell about the smoke because i have been messing with fueling and timing. i want to say white at idle then none when it got warm and some black ish under boost.
My friend had a rich/lean gauge with o2 sensor that we stuck in the tail pipe and it read real lean if that helps any. I know its for gas but we thought it was worth a shot.
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Was it in the tail-pipe for idle?
A diesel cannot idle "lean" being that there is no airway restriction.. there is nothing to lean the mixture. If it injected less fuel the idle would drop. The beauty thing with a diesel is it doesn't really ever run lean or rich, even whilst puking the blackness.
Yes there is more fuel in the cylinder than can be burned, but what IS being burnt is burning at a near perfect stoich A/F mixture.
I do believe I have read the AHU stockers are 195 bar.
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What does the exhaust sound like?? Does it go pop-pop-pop or a nice smooth idle?
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???? how does a gas o2 sensor work in a diesel?? hell if that worked the EPA would love you.. they could do same tests on diesels that they do on gas cars... then places like cali would not have to exempt older diesels and such as they would have a way to test them
just sayin...
i think you rpump needs to see someone who knows what they are doing.. sadly.. 8v seems to have had a fail on his fraken m pump.. but maybe that the same issue you have that he could not resolve..
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It was a half/half for my franken pump. I got a steal on a Rover pump so I never pursued the franken pump at all.
I did an internal mod that caused the cam-plate to break off some pieces of metal and ruin my internal pressures by trashing my HP head.. SOO it was inconclusive haha.
If the pump does not have a custom modified throttle control lever.. then it will never ever perform properly. Reason being the pump will not ever be able to move the control collar far enough to make up for the DI's cam-plate with huge lift.
So if it is just an AAZ pump with DI internals and nothing was customized or modified.. you have a basic AAZ pump with 10mm internals. NOT an M-TDI pump unfortunately.
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the o2 sensor was really just an excuse to use it. he bought it last week and we were just playing with it.
The problem with the pump i have is that i dont know really what was done to it. I got it with a mk2 with a tdi in it that had a bent valve. The guy told me that he bought it off of ebay from a guy who built it for his mtdi project but never finished it. The pump was runing in the mk2 at one time and they put 50k miles on it or so over a few years.
when i have the pump more advanced it idles fine, you can drive it down the road and the turbo spools up fine, no black smoke really.
the part that i don't get is that pedal to the floor i barely get 60mph. the math doesn't add up to me that with a diesel tranny in 5th gear at at least 4k i cant do over that. My n/a does better than that.
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The math doesn't add up to me that with a diesel tranny in 5th gear at at least 4k i cant do over that. My n/a does better than that.
Either you have a severe boost leak.. or the pump ain't what you were told it was ;)
Did you frig with it all prior to installing it?? If all the setting remained the same as the way the guys had it on the mk2.. then the pumps worthless. And they drove it as a slug..
However now that I think about it.. I am sure I was able to do better than 60mph when I had the exact same pump you have (exact same being, DI internals stuffed in to a IDI pump.. but without the proper mods.. it is still just a full IDI pump with a high lift cam-plate and 10mm plunger).
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Answer me this, is the power from idle to about 22-2300 extreme then it just drops and hits a wall????
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...the math doesn't add up to me that with a diesel tranny in 5th gear at at least 4k i can't do over that. (60mph)
Ja, that sounds whack to me too... My Jettas do 65mph at ~3100rpm. The FN is not too different than the AGS & AOP I'm running.
Got teeny wheels?
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I've got orlandos on it which are 14's. Checked it with a gps speedo too to see how bad the truck one was off.
It sputters a bit at idle and chuggs some then when you get up into higher rpms and the turbo spools it runs pretty good and sounds smooth.
I've tested for boost leaks and cut out the intercooler and put a new intake mani gasket on it too.
Didn't mess with the pump untill the truck was up and running. then when it didn't run very well i started with adjusting the timing, then fuel screw and idle. then went to the TD boost pin, swapped the AAZ one back in today.
I've got a tdi pump laying around, if i could come up with a harness and ecu i'd just go that way. Wiring doesn't scare me I was an electronics tech for 10 years working on submarines and battle ships for the navy. I've also talked to a few people about getting a prebuilt mtdi pump too.
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I'm not afraid of wiring either, but the only thing you'll gain from doing the full electronic install is the ability to more easily diagnose the electronic parts that fail that wouldn't have been necessary if you hadn't done the full electronic install... :P
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I'm not afraid of wiring either, but the only thing you'll gain from doing the full electronic install is the ability to more easily diagnose the electronic parts that fail that wouldn't have been necessary if you hadn't done the full electronic install... :P
I was on the fence about doing an mTDI or keeping the electronic stuff for my TDI build. Then my battery died on the weekend. I rolled the car down the hill and fired her up, then promptly started emailing people about mTDI pumps.
Then I remembered the road trip I was on a few months ago when my alternator crapped out. Apparently finding a voltage regulator for a non-AC 1.6TD car in the US is somewhat difficult. Knowing worst case I could just pull the plunger out of my pump? Priceless.
I'm sure I could get marginally better fuel economy from an electronic TDI, but I'm pretty darn sure I can't just turn a couple of screws on an electronic TDI and get 30% more power.
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Some people have one hell of a rage-boner going for the VE E-TDI.. and I can't fathom why. ;)
Pulling the plunger is nice and easy, if you could find a mechanical one from some old marine VE pumped diesel thatèd be shweeeeet.
I have mechanical gauges in my m-tdi even.. pull that plunger and it is a fully mechanical machine. Ready for the apocalypse and EMP's.
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pull that plunger and it is a fully mechanical machine. Ready for the apocalypse and EMP's.
exactly jeremy! Precisely why I would rather have midi over anything. Coupled with the fact that if necessary all I have to do it pull up to a bulldozer with a siphon and a funnel and get me some hydraulic fluid to run if and when the us becomes like mad maxx ;D
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Same here, I'm not smart enough for all that electricky computery stuff. But we digress...
How can it be 4000rpm and only 60mph? It should be doing 85-90mph at 4000rpm in 5th gear. Either the tach is wrong or the clutch is slipping.
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While we're on a mad max note and not a mtdi note i never realized how homo-erotic that movie was as a kid. I just thought it was cool. but watching it as an adult i realize the guys in leather ass-chaps chained to each other. And with gas being a limited resource why would you have massive v8 vehicle getting like 8 mpg? It came out after the oil crisis so that had to be in someone's mind. I know there were a few VW rails in the movie too but still. And how long did the gas last? I assume it was leaded gas though. I don't know if there really was a point to that but still.
no tach in the caddy just ear. clutch isn't slipping in it. it has good grip.
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How can it be 4000rpm and only 60mph? It should be doing 85-90mph at 4000rpm in 5th gear. Either the tach is wrong or the clutch is slipping.
I'd also like to add that a AHU with the fist sized k03 at 4000RPM sounds like she is going to POP. I had to have my non modified pump maxxed to the nines to even be near good enough. It was an endeavour I went after as it was still faster and more economical than the N/A it replaced.. lol
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Not running the stock turbo K24 or T3 i think?? something top mount fosho.
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I think I put that in the original post. The Turbo is a Mk2 Turbo diesel with like a Volvo compressor wheel and snail shell. I uploaded a video to YouTube earlier. I'll post it in a bit.
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Viddeoz of the caddy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC4aPGEdZWU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4trEdA7qc4
Checked the compression and it is at like 450 460
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if mad max had a MTDI hed be LOL and no sucker ever catch him :P
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Those vidoes point to me the injectors aint poppin correctly sonnnnnn.
Timing needs bumped up I would think.
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i messed with the timing a bit yesterday. i'm beginning to believe it is just in the pump itself so im debating on just getting a built one and being done with that side of the project. not going for super huge hp numbers here so should i go with a 4bt based pump or a turbo diesel/tdi hybrid pump? i'm sure opinions vary on which is best. just using the caddy to get parts and tow the occasional mk1 or mk2 i buy.
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i messed with the timing a bit yesterday. i'm beginning to believe it is just in the pump itself so im debating on just getting a built one and being done with that side of the project. not going for super huge hp numbers here so should i go with a 4bt based pump or a turbo diesel/tdi hybrid pump? i'm sure opinions vary on which is best. just using the caddy to get parts and tow the occasional mk1 or mk2 i buy.
get a pump from libby and be done with it. ;)
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on your tube vid ,your engine is missing in the lower rpm , injectors or pump
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Well Brian you should trade me your pump... ;) would love to buy one off of him just need to sell more parts to pay for it. Got a nice colt 1911 for a bunch of parts the other day I could go sell too I guess.
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Well Brian you should trade me your pump... ;) would love to buy one off of him just need to sell more parts to pay for it. Got a nice colt 1911 for a bunch of parts the other day I could go sell too I guess.
never sell guns.. ill say this if I don't get mine going this weekend ill bring it with me from ohio and ill come up next week and we can slap it on and see how it does.
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That would be awesome. Would really let me see If It's the pump or not and see how much I really want a 4bt pump.
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Havent got to mess with it lately. i had to strip my 92 jetta coupe down for paint and drop it off. It has a turbo diesel in it right now but yesterday i picked up a 97 passat tdi to drop in it. Havent decided yet if i'm going to keep my dash or throw a corrado one in it to make the gauge cluster fit. The car has a 5 lug swap off of a 97 gti and h&r springs with koni shocks. I have leather door cards and recaros going into it and am picking up a set of 16v flairs for it. It already has 16v fenders up front because it sits low and rubbed bad.
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Havent got to mess with it lately. i had to strip my 92 jetta coupe down for paint and drop it off. It has a turbo diesel in it right now but yesterday i picked up a 97 passat tdi to drop in it. Havent decided yet if i'm going to keep my dash or throw a corrado one in it to make the gauge cluster fit. The car has a 5 lug swap off of a 97 gti and h&r springs with koni shocks. I have leather door cards and recaros going into it and am picking up a set of 16v flairs for it. It already has 16v fenders up front because it sits low and rubbed bad.
Let me know when your shoving that tdi in I'd like to see an e-tdi swap for the knowledge.
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k. will probably be a bit. got to get the coupe back from pain then pull everything out of the passat i need then pull the turbo diesel out then swap time. with everything else in the shop who knows. Gotta pay the bills too.
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I think i read somewhere that 1z injectors had a lower popping pressure than AHU injectors. I just picked up that 1z motor wonder if swapping the injectors over would help it run any better. I ran a can of diesel purge through it and that helped a little bit with the put put put idle.
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The injectors are probably ridiculously worn/dirty then if it helped but didn't solve it. That or your timing is still super retarded.
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If i advance the timing any more i'll have to pull the timing belt and slip it another tooth forward. its all the way advanced as it can go with the adjustment. I talked with ryanp about gettting a 2.5 landy pump and putting on it. I've got the cash. just going to see if i can get any more interested and buy a few and have them shipped at once.
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2.5 landy pump and putting on it.
Best idea yet lol.
They are a legitimate awesomeness. If you buy them used just understand they will likely need a reseal prior to being put in to duty.
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yea, i was going to reseal them, gov mod, and whatever else i need to do. I've been reading up on it. As much as i want a 4bt based pump i cant shell out a grand right now. and 300 sounds a lot better. though i may put a 4bt one on the e21 tdi i have been scheming on after the caddy and my coupe are done.
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I'm ready to go to the uk and fill my boots ;)
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decided to put my big boy pants on and get the 4bt pump. I never got around to getting the 300tdi pump and I want to get this thing going again.
I've also been working on my vr6 rabbit. Motor is in it and it runs. now just putting all of it back together.
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:). NICE. I woulda went the Andrew route if I could swing the cash no doubts.
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after playing with Bbob203's Passat wagon I decided I really wanted one, so its all his fault. Its also his fault that i'm going to pick up a b3 wagon and put a tdi I have in it out of a b4 and ditch my mk3 tdi. well that motor will get put into my 92 jetta coupe when (if) its ever done getting painted.
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i make up passat td back in 02.. no one likes.. make it a wagon in 06.. and still people think i dumb... wth.. evceryone trying to copy me now.. but tdi-m fun... ask bbob how i drive mine...
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im a big wagon fan and the b3 is like 400 and is in great shape. I plan on doing a lot of work to it once I get it running. But I have to make money too so it makes progress slow. I'm working on this vr6 rabbit I acquired. It has mk4 mounts and a custom dogbone mount. Pretty slick setup. Its all ce2 already, has a roll cage, coilovers, shaved and tucked bay. I'm putting mk4 rear disc on it tomorrow. I'd run g60s on the front but I want to be able to run 14"s because I have some cool vintage Ronals I want to put on it.
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only thing I want to do to mine is pull the dash and front carpet and get rid of 90& of useless b3 wiring.
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only thing I want to do to mine is pull the dash and front carpet and get rid of 90& of useless b3 wiring.
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As they say when the bill collector calls, the check is in the mail. And now the waiting begins. I also talked to a friend of mine who has a European parts store and he may be selling his extended cab caddy with a turbo diesel in it. if I can get it for a good price I may grab it and throw my mtdi into it so I can have a caddy with some leg room. It has a 2 door front section on it with 2 door doors, and is bright yellow.
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My pump should be in next week and I will try to get it put on probably the same day or day after it gets in. Getting some bigger nozzles from Ben to put in it while i'm at it. I'll do some tuning to it to get it up and running good... then I may pull the whole shebang out of the caddy. I found an extended cab caddy about an hour and a half from me and I may fix that up instead of my caddy and put my mtdi into it.
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Good news update! Pump got in last week and I got it put on. Took some messing with it to get it to run right. I got the new nozzles off of Ben and got them installed friday and put in on Saturday. Then a little more tuning, standing on our heads, and beers later and she rolls coal like the big boys. It pulls nice and hard and will build about 10-12 psi. I had about 14psi without the intercooler and with the old nozzles but with a little more work I'll bring those numbers up. I'd like to get 18 or so. I also need to put a diesel tranny in it and get rid of the gasser one, but i may wait till i drop it in the extended cab body. It also needs brakes and suspension bad since it has no of either. You get above 55 and it gets a little sketchy and bouncy.
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back at 14 psi with a 10 second or so 0-60. might be faster if i was in a better spot without a curve into a bridge. Little more tweaking and a water meth kit and we will call it good. Going tomorrow to pick up an extended cab caddy with a bad turbo diesel. going to fix it up and drop my mtdi in it.