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Engine Specific Info and Questions => TDI Engine -General Info => Topic started by: hillfolk'r on May 10, 2005, 08:22:44 pm
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im putting a ahu tdi (98 jetta engine)setup together,,ihave a 84 td pump,,with the 12mm head already done,,im using the garrett t3 turbo from an 86 td,,and iwanna get those kerma 520race nozzles(like 350for the set,,theysaid something about being the largest nozzles),,,ive seen some info here,,, most dudes seem to run smaller pumps,like 11mm,,now you guys saythey run ok,,but i want tire fryer(it willhave an ic),,in kerma's site ,,looks like those dudes get like 200hp+300ft pounds,will i get close to that?i wanna stuff it in my 79 rabbit w/a wide ratio,,ported the headand manifolds,,just cleanup,,nothin radical,,well whadda u think?,,iheard w/ the 12mm pump the nozzles willfuel good,like i guess if ya used early td pump,that u have to run huuge nozzles to get the stock hp,but 12mm has higher psi,so it willbe fueling more like an electronicpump??boost will be set to kill,idunno,30-40 psithanks for any input,,,blake
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Two thoughts come to mind:
1) You'll blow that Rabbit tranny to kingdom come.
2) Consider it essential to swap out the cam plate in the pump for a TDI unit. Best if you can find one from the automatic A4 TDI since it's got a more aggressive lift profile for max pressure.
Actually 3:
3) I'll see you at Waterfest. I'll likely be autocrossing, though.
(http://dave-oh.com/pics/tdi/image_01.jpg)
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i dont have time to be swapping trannys,witha late model,besides icanchange a trans in like 1.5 hours,and i got a bunch,,i was told the 12mm head igot came from a cummins,i think the plate was too,,they are laying around the shop at work,stacked uplike cordwood,,ihad mypump 12mm modded for 100$ w/parts,and set up on the stand,,,it ramlike a monster on my ol1.6 td,,,although ido want tosend it to giles for some minor issues,,so how bout it,,howwill this run??oh yea,,props to total seal formaking me a set of gapless rings,,callkevin at totalseal for info,,if enough demand,theywillproduce,otherwise for now,,theycan mod the stock rings,,,,ihate my laptop,the space key is intermittent,,,ok then,,anyine got a tdi camplate?
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You don't have time to swap trannys, but you can do it in 1.5 hours? I don't understand ...
You will find the time to swap trannys one way or the other. You can either swap it now and save a towing bill, or swap it later after you blow the Rabbit tranny to smithereens and have to get towed home!
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look,,dont worry about my trans blowing up,,got a free later trans??didnt think so,dont worry i always carry ropeto tow,, ,how bout some answers on the orig questions?i just got my race 520 nozzles,,how will it run w/12mm pump being a non electronic setup??i need a rocketship in this old rabbit ,,will a mech 12mm pump and 520 race nozzles do it,,i wanna see 14's in the 1/4,,so how bout it??
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I think your biggest problem is gonna be cylinder temps and pressure. The Mech pump doesn't have the same precision as the electrical TDI pump, so injection timing is gonna be sloppier and with the amount of fuel you're gonna be pouring in, that could burn some serious holes in expensive parts real quick. At the levels you're talking about it's all gonna be about the atomization which means you need that mechanical pump to be turning out as much or more PSI's than an electrical one. If you stream a little bit, it'll be a white hot torch through the top of the piston.
Getting in touch with Giles would definitely be a step in the right direction. A pre-turbo fast reacting EGT probe will be mandatory. I would say you probably need access to a dyno as well. Getting to where you want to go is going to require plenty of tweaking and adjusting and you'll need objective measurements of power and torque to be each change makes more power without setting the temps to destroy.
I'd think about propane or maybe nitrous injection to reduce some of those temps.
I also hope you have just as many axles as you do trannys. Lots of stories of snapped axles and destroyed CV's at those numbers on older models.
Start reading, particularly look for references to Tdirs on the forums. Simon has been running a 1z in an A2 for years and rediculously fast. I believe that he's finally switched to an electrical pump, but used to run a mechanical at the numbers you're talking about. Thing is, the guy's a diesel guru and there were plenty of custom fabricated parts that made up his setup. You're going to have to pay to play.
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yo blake...as for the cam plate..the cummins cam plate is a direct injection cam plate so it is similar to the tdi if not bigger remeber my cam plate issue my cummins cam plate is way way larger my dial indicator won't even read it it bottoms out then keeps going then returns... yours and my setup should run similar to tdirs's he has much more time tunining it etc..but it should run weell..as for trannies i think if you can lay into the torque smothly it will be fine..look at samrabbits setup all a1 trannies..if your dragging and running lots of shock load to the trans at starting then thats when it will break ..strip some gears etc..heck if your nuts some of my friedns have blown quaifes and the spool i got from paul was starting to crack but that was on a 10 sec rabbit turbo gasser.. so i think for us it will be ok as long as we are easy on the power transfer staring and don't lay into it fully until rolling etc.. simons going to a pumpduase 16v 2.0L setup...and a big holset turbo ..hehe...I think the next step for us is gonna be o rings or firerings to keep the cylinder pressure and boost needed t oburn the fuel..kinda the same as the cummins setups etc..as i think were gonna be over 40 psi to burn the fuel..you can probably have it running for waterfest ..if you get the break in period done soon...i want to see nice clean engine compartment ..no oil or grime and clean parts and paint..ok hahahah
later
Deo
\x/ hillfolk!
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You may be RPM limited with a Cummins cam plate.
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ah my pump has a cummins plate in it and it runs to 5500 rpm no problem..it defuels at the stock settings though...it made 134hp back in my 1.6td ...4 years ago at waterfest etc..
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What nozzles were you running when you put down 134hp?
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stock td nozzles..pump was turned up all the way ..let me dig up the dyno sheet..
later
Deo
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Sooo.. you have a Cummins DI cam plate in a TD (i.e. IDI)?
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I have a Cummins DI cam plate, and 12mm head on a 1.6l td pump...but now the pump is sitting on my workbench waiting till i finish the 1.9tdi engine its going on etc... the car ran great..the diaindicator i have doesn't have enough travel to timetthat cam plate..i think its a large lift..so every time i did it i had to "Guess and play it by ear"..sucked..DieselTech is local to me and has a long travel dial indicator i plan on using ..if that doesn't work i have apiazo and atiming light setup i want to try out...
later
Deo
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hey,,i figure w/my cheapy waterinjection,,it should be ok,,i was runnin lots of rpms,when i was using this pump on my 1.6 td,,i let it go to 5500,,so i aint even goin that high,with the tdi engine,dont need to rev more than stock,,any ways sam rabbit got lots of hp,,and he doesntnuke trannys+cv's and in a couple of years,,itll be fullyelectronic anyways,,these are tougher engines thanu think,,my old 1.6 took 35+ psi,,and lots of fuel for over 50k miles,,still runs,if ineeded it to,,the 15.7 i ran wasnt even with the 12mm pump,,that 12mm really made it way quicker,remember,deo,,you said i was getting that wierd vibration at wot in 3rd from 40-60 mph,,heh,,its TIRESHAKE,but i never ran it on the 1/4 before i started to take it allapart to use some stuff on the tdi build ,,centerforce dual friction clutch,6 pound f/w,12mm pump,and garret t3 turbo,,already had the goodies, i now need to stick em on the tdi
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A Set Of TDI injectioon Lines and th eHold Down Forks Is being mailed to ya..soon..later
Deo
\x/ hillfolk!
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nice to see you guys are still alive :) balls still hangin from the caddy?
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yup im in ny and blake is coming back to ny from clevelandasap..as soon as his house sells....hey someone buy blakes house!.. :)...whats your name?..did we meet at rabbitation or what?...wyatt's old board etc..
blakes building a sick earlty rabbit tdi mech barely legal street racer..and i'm debating how i should do my tdi..mummn too many options..no cash right now so its slow..
talk to ya soon
thanks
deo
\x/ Hillfolk!
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Joe Allison , Deo...suprised you don't remember. We talked several times...remember hearing about your bi turbo 1.6TD setup that blew up, etc.. I was at WF 2003 with my Rabbit GTD. 22psi, propane injection. Green car... Marc and I also formed the old GTD board at vwgtd.hopto.org I had disappeared for a year and now am just getting back and settled...now living in NYS here too. Just sold my IDI TD to someone and have a TDI I'm working into the Rabbit rebuilding, etc. as we speak.
Joe
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sweet ..i am bad with names..but i remember most of it now weren't you in scranton at one in?..
thanks deo
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Nope, I was out of Warren, PA for a long time. Have moved here to NYS where diesels are FAR from plentiful. Don't even sell the new TDI's here....
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man don't tell my parent yard that..ha..blake and I have bunch of diesel and parts..just gotta keep your eyes open ha.... man pa must be covered in diesels...! :)
man i have relatives in teh scranton / clarks summit area..pa is cool just take forever to drive thru either way north or south hahah
later
Deo
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used to be jtast or somethin right???,,,yea house is 4 sale,,anyone wanna buy a house in cleveland,,,???im movin back to ny when its sold,,,its bad out here,,gotta run away,,,gonna be livin back near deo,,,,where in nys are ya joe??? we are around the poughkeepsie area,,,,,,yo first thing when i get outta here, is that tdi i got built is goin in,,12mm pump,,520race nozzles garret t3 ,windage tray,turbo drains intopan,,like old td,,usin my 84 td tranny,has a tall.71 5th,,,centerforce clutch,lightened fw,,and its goin in my basic bare bones 79 rabbit NO power nothin,,like brakes,,dont even need a vac. pump,igutted that,only power itll have it tdi power,,imhopin for very mild with not muchtrouble,like 150hp-250 ft pounds??,,the dyno charts on kerma look wickid,,,,,,oh yea mad props to total seal rings ,for custom top "gapless" ring set,,,if interested,lemme know,ill tell ya what to do onthe stand,,the cam is out,,but if i turn crank approx1/2- 1 inch of stroke on a craftsmen 19mm wrench,and its blowin out the capplugs ihave in inj. holes,,a race dude at work said his lil kohler tractor puller lawnmower thingee held 2%leakdown for 4 seasons,,,
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you have the p/n's for the total seals through them? I checked...they don't have a listing...let me know as I'd like to order a set of tops only...
I'm in Elmira, NY. South Central New York State about 60 miles west of Binghampton.
Joe
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ok heres the deal,,they dont have them,,they have to make them!!,the diesels have chrome rings,,now you know that the dealer /oemrings are per hole,and like 120$$,well ifound out one of the oem ring suppliers is GOETZE,,and ieventually found them for like 20 per hole,,ask deo for link,,i think its mrautoparts.com,or somethin,,wellafter getting the rings and you are sure they are the ones,,call total seal ,and ask for kevin in sales ,,he probably will remember doing my set,,he was worried about the chrome chipping whenmachined,but had no prob,,,,i had him do 5 sets,because if i had a problem on eng.assy.,i had a extra set,,,he phosphate coated them also,for break in,,oh yea lube the bores with allthe goodies they sell,,,theyhave a dry film cyl wall lube, its cool!!and a very thin lube for ring lands,,basically dont use oil on cylwalls, jus on ring lands,,the price for him to make 5 top comp "gapless" rings was 115 $$,,,not bad for awesome sealing,,the dry lube looks like pencil lead,rub it on the spotless bore,it gets a green tinge,,,cooleh?