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Engine Specific Info and Questions => TDI Engine -General Info => Topic started by: SolarSteve on January 15, 2012, 09:22:16 am
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Since the last time I have been on this site Ihave sold my 1991 Jetta and bought a 1997 Passat TDI with the 1Z engine.
I know what oil the owners manual tells me to use and I have heard many different opinions on diferent weights and types of motor oil to use. I am curently using Rotella 15X40 and changing it every 3000 miles. I plan to use the Rotella 5W40 synthetic in the colder months.
Can you guys please give me your input on what is considered acceptable oil to use? I am running it on VO and will continue to change the oil/filter every 3000 miles, so I really don't want to spend twice as much on synthetic oil just to dump it in half or less time.
Thanks in advance for the input.
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I think synthetic can be used for quite a bit longer than dino oil.
I currently use 5w40 in my 91 IDI.
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I usually did 5,000 on synth oil changes.
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I guess I wasn't very clear. What I want to know is whether or not it ok to run dino oil in my TDI. And if it HAS to have synthetic, why.
Thanks
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I don't know about the first generation TDI, but the ALH and newer had to have the synth with the specific 505.???? or maybe 501.??? I know the BEW had to have the approved oil or the cam would get wiped out. I don't know for sure but I think all of the approved oils were synthetic. I don't know about the 1Z engine, but I would assume that syth oil would be better for it, especially if it calls for it.
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My ahu which would be considered a first gen requires synthetic as well. I would not use dino oil. I have only done two changes of my own on that engine, but I know the previous owner did use only synthetic oil. I myself per recommendation from the local tdi mechanic. Use Rotella T6 in intervals of 8-10k miles. The car has over 210k on it and the engines camshaft looks brand new!!! This pleases me. ;D
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My ahu which would be considered a first gen requires synthetic as well. I would not use dino oil. I have only done two changes of my own on that engine, but I know the previous owner did use only synthetic oil. I myself per recommendation from the local tdi mechanic. Use Rotella T6 in intervals of 8-10k miles. The car has over 210k on it and the engines camshaft looks brand new!!! This pleases me. ;D
i would have no problem running Rotella T 15w40 in any TDI (ALH or older)
my dad runs rotella in his 2006 Duramax, and it has almost 400,000 miles on it, without a single issue to the engine.. still has stock injectors..
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I mean it is ok to use regular rotella or similar oils, but like you have suggested the oil change interval is drastically shortened. The synthetic oil should help in the winter as well. The way I see it is though even if you do 5k mile oil changes that is $12.99 a gallon for Rotella 15w40, but you change it twice as often or more (you suggested 3k mile changes). So it seems it would be more expensive then every 10k miles spending $21.99 a gallon for Rotella T6 5w40. You would be changing and buying filters less often as well. Reason i mention T6 is it seems the most readily available also Delvac 1. These are both found at all auto parts stores and walmarts.
Also about the Dmax that is quite impressive. Luckily it is a newer generation which is why he has had excellent luck with injectors. I hope this means that the newer duramaxs are going to be more capable of high mileage because that is a weak point of a lot of them. Especially compared to Cummins.
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I mean it is ok to use regular rotella or similar oils, but like you have suggested the oil change interval is drastically shortened. The synthetic oil should help in the winter as well. The way I see it is though even if you do 5k mile oil changes that is $12.99 a gallon for Rotella 15w40, but you change it twice as often or more (you suggested 3k mile changes). So it seems it would be more expensive then every 10k miles spending $21.99 a gallon for Rotella T6 5w40. You would be changing and buying filters less often as well. Reason i mention T6 is it seems the most readily available also Delvac 1. These are both found at all auto parts stores and walmarts.
Also about the Dmax that is quite impressive. Luckily it is a newer generation which is why he has had excellent luck with injectors. I hope this means that the newer duramaxs are going to be more capable of high mileage because that is a weak point of a lot of them. Especially compared to Cummins.
2006 was when they went with the LBZ engine.. the LB7 (earliest) and LLY (02-05?) had injector issues, as well as some other small things..
but the LBZ has a stronger short block, and better injectors, as well as a big garrett VNT turbo..
my dad is an over the road RV hauler, and he puts LOTS of miles on his truck.. i think part of the reason its lasted soo long, is because it gets diesel treatment to every drop of fuel thru it, and it is maintained meticulously.. still sounds the same today, as the day he brought it home.. alot of these d-maxes get louder as they age it seems.. my uncle and cousin both have d-maxes too, with less miles, and the injections have seemed to get louder as they have aged.. they are maintained nowheres near as good as my dads truck tho..
my dad has talked to LOTS of owners of the 2006 and newer d-maxes, and LOTS of them have had ZERO issues with there trucks.
i have not heard of a single actual internal issue with the ALLY trannies.. besides cracking the tailshaft housings..
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Thats all good input. And like whoabeats touched on, its the price of the synthetic every 3000 miles that is hard to deal with. I have been considering using the T6 and going 4000 OCI's, but that will still be pretty pricey. On top of that I am consuming about 1 quart every 3000, so that is adding to the over all expense. This consumtion seems to be pretty normal, from speaking to other A3/B4 owners and the turbo appears to be in good shape as per my butt dyno.
My manual says to use 505 00. I have heard of many people with the PD engines using full synth all the time and still wiping out the cam. I never used snyth in my 1991 IDI and that cam looked awesome at 340,000 miles. To top it all off, I have a real hard time believing that a VW HAS to use synth when you have all those Cummins and other big diesels that use the dino Rotella for hundreds of thousands of miles without any issues.
So, I guess I am in search of A3/B4 single owner who has used dino oil for the majority of the engines life and see what he has to say.
Any and all other opinions still welcomed.
Thanks
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The IDI s didn't have cam hardness/wear issues. They did have the flakey look on some of the mexican cams but no failures like the newer stuff.
I know the syth oils have longer intervals. 5,000 is easy. My Shaffer's rep says 7 to 10 thousand on his oil between spinning a new filter on and dumping a quart of new oil in and sending some of the old in for analysis. I wouldn't have a problem doing 6,000 on the T6 rotella personally.
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When i get the M-TDI motor I will be using the 5w50 castrol syntec again, and probably going to do 10-12,000kms on the oil.
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Thats all good input. And like whoabeats touched on, its the price of the synthetic every 3000 miles that is hard to deal with. I have been considering using the T6 and going 4000 OCI's, but that will still be pretty pricey. On top of that I am consuming about 1 quart every 3000, so that is adding to the over all expense. This consumtion seems to be pretty normal, from speaking to other A3/B4 owners and the turbo appears to be in good shape as per my butt dyno.
My manual says to use 505 00. I have heard of many people with the PD engines using full synth all the time and still wiping out the cam. I never used snyth in my 1991 IDI and that cam looked awesome at 340,000 miles. To top it all off, I have a real hard time believing that a VW HAS to use synth when you have all those Cummins and other big diesels that use the dino Rotella for hundreds of thousands of miles without any issues.
So, I guess I am in search of A3/B4 single owner who has used dino oil for the majority of the engines life and see what he has to say.
Any and all other opinions still welcomed.
Thanks
thats what im saying.. my dad has almost 400k on the clock, and his truck has only had synthetic for 2-3 oil changes..
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Its not exactly apples to apples though. I use cummins for example because thats what I know best. But it is a medium duty engine designed differently then a tdi. The life of the injectors on a 12v is designed to be within spec to around 400k miles. That is far past what I assume a tdi suggest. I believe a duramax uses the same mentality. If my cummins didn't have its typical power steering pump oil leak, I'd probably be running t6 or valvoline premium blue synthetic. For such a small engine such as a vw I can definitely pony up that little bit extra for synthetic. For a big thirsty engine I'll stick to regular oil. Also before I switched to valvoline I use to use regular rotella and everytime I got to around 5k miles I would notice a drop in oil level. I switched to valvoline blue and my oil level is steady past 6k.
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I inquired about this topic today with a local VW/TDI mechanic. He explained to me that the 15W40 dino Rotella is too thick and doesn't handle the heat as well as the synthetic oils. I mentioned the "if it good for a Cummins, why not a TDI" statement and he told me that the TDI turbo spins at a higher RPM and a higher temp then the Cummins and therefore if I don't use a sythetic oil I will wipe out my turbo.
This mechanic is VO friendly and I also explained that I would be performing shorter OCI's. He knows that I am running a moderate (RC2) tune with stock injectors and reccommended that I go 4 to 5 K on my OCI's and use T6.
So, I guess I got what I was looking for and changed the oil this afternoon with T6. Hopefully this will cure the 1 quart per 3000 miles that I have been consuming and my ensures my turbo lives long.
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running dino wipes out your turbo?
BS.. i have had a TDI turbo on my car for LOTS AND LOTS of miles, and never once ran synthetic thru it..
GT1749VNT
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running dino wipes out your turbo?
BS.. i have had a TDI turbo on my car for LOTS AND LOTS of miles, and never once ran synthetic thru it..
GT1749VNT
I'm not making it up. Thats what the mechanic told me...
I'd rather run the less expensive, dino oil and change it every 3K, but I have heard from a number of sources on forums and now this guy that the dino will eventually kill the turbo. Its to the point where I'm not sure what to do. I would love to see some kind of professional data showing turbo life on dino and another on synthetic.
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Running vegetable oil fuel is way worse on the engine than using dino oil for lube. You should have no trouble with the Rotella 15w40. If you decide to go with the T6, 10k mile OCI will be fine as long as your rings are in decent shape.
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15w40 is really thick for a modern engine. What does the manual suggest? Whatever you go with you don't want to switch back and forth between synthetic and traditional oils. I run synthetic usually elf or motul in everything except my bug and old bmws they get castrol 30w and 20w50 respectively.
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The issue with camshaft wear usually come from running oil without enough ZDDP, which is a high pressure additive needed for good flat tappet/cam life. The zinc is hard on catalytic converters so it has all but disappeared from gasoline engine lube oils. This is not much of an issue since small stuff usually has pretty light valve spring pressures so the loading of the cam/lifter interface is not to high. Now a BBC with a cam and some valve springs is another issue, which is why virtually all "big" motors use roller lifters these days. Rollers also reduce the internal friction significantly. 5 hp in a 2.3T Ford 4 banger.
I suspect that the mechanic mentioned above was referring to dino oils "coking" the exhaust housing. This can be a problem, which is why water cooled center sections were all the rage at one time. Most coking is the result of coming in at high speed and shutting off the motor with the turbo still screaming and the exhaust housing aglow. Without some oil flow to carry off the excess heat the oil cokes in the housing. You can eliminate the problem by driving sanely before you shut down and/or letting the motor idle for a bit before shutdown. Remember the Turbo Timer? Is this an issue with a TDI? I suspect not, just because they are getting run on cars like RORs without problems.
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i still treat my turbo like a turbo.. im fully aware my car needs a cool down period if ive been building substantial heat..
my college is at the top of a big hill, by the time i find a parking spot, and get all my things together, and get ready to actually head to class, my car is cooled off (usually around 2 mins of idling)..
i always harp on my friends about shutting their turbo cars off with the turbo still spooled..
but uh, if a certain oil were bad for these turbos, then i would think my turbo would be WELL DEAD by now..
once, i drained oil out of my car that SHEENED OFF THE DRAIN PLUG like water. i saw that and the eyes about popped out of my noggin..
couldnt believe my engine was running that crap.. it was after i heat seized it, so i didnt wanna waste a fresh change of oil on it..