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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: dankcorey22 on July 23, 2010, 12:13:53 am

Title: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on July 23, 2010, 12:13:53 am
Hello guys my name is Corey i am 20 and this is going to be my first full size rebuild. I might have a lot of questions and thats why im here and to show yall another build project, I know yall like these. I bought this car about 2 months ago with 268,000 Miles on it. I bought it for $275 and then drove it home and even then added 2,000 more miles on the odometer! This is going to be a really really budget build with all the cheapest stuff i can find! ;)

Spec. 1.6L Turbo diesel  broken 5 speed trans. engine code CY Mileage start rebuild 270,012
My plans- 1MM over sized pistons :o, rebuild trans, new valves lifters, new seals and bearings, new timing belt kit, homemade 2.5 inch down pipe.

Well heres both of my cars togather
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0504101407.jpg)

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0713101136.jpg)

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0713101136a.jpg)

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0713101432.jpg)

That down pipe and CV axels are a pain to get apart!
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0713101431a.jpg)

Heres how i got the exgust spring clips off
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0713101433.jpg)







Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on July 23, 2010, 12:18:30 am
Heres my new pistons
 (http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0718101235.jpg)

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0713101622.jpg)

Hehe thats me doing something
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0713101622a.jpg)

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0713101737.jpg)

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0713101737a.jpg)

Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Smokey Eddy on July 23, 2010, 12:22:07 am
I wanna see pics of your tdi! :D
but seriously, nice work. Have you seen anything about my catastrophe that is unfortunately a VW?
that fram filter may or may not give you issues. I got a puralator one once and it restricted the flow so badly it set off my oil pressure buzzer. Shoot for Mann or Bosch.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on July 23, 2010, 12:22:35 am
Clutch and Flywheel

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0714101845a.jpg)

That little spring that holds the pressure plate on it a pain to get off. i cant imagine how im going to get it back on
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0714101846.jpg)

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0714101845.jpg)

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0714101846a.jpg)

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0714101919.jpg)
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Smokey Eddy on July 23, 2010, 12:24:20 am
Your post tells me that my spring thing is too small for my 210mm clutch... mine from my 200mm clutch went in fairly easy.
well, yours a 210mm that's a bonus! that plus manual steering rack AND AC! you have it all! that engine looks to be in incredible shape.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on July 23, 2010, 12:26:50 am
I wanna see pics of your tdi! :D
but seriously, nice work. Have you seen anything about my catastrophe that is unfortunately a VW?
that fram filter may or may not give you issues. I got a puralator one once and it restricted the flow so badly it set off my oil pressure buzzer. Shoot for Mann or Bosch.

Hey man! heres a video of my TDI in the engine bay check it out Overlook of the TDI.3g2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7T2jc4HdQU#)  post a link to your failed VW haha
I liked the Fram so far it has not given me any problems
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: arsenicpants on July 23, 2010, 02:58:35 am
nice progress :)
looks just like mine ;)
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on July 23, 2010, 04:54:18 pm
Got it in the basement on the engine stand
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0714102242a.jpg)

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0715100019.jpg)

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0715100020.jpg)

Look the camshaft on the first lobe there is chunks missing
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0715100049.jpg)

Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on July 23, 2010, 06:23:30 pm
I have a few questions about the advance pump spring timing. what spring do you supposed to have and when your timing the whole engine do i time it the same as if i had the stock spring in the pump? Thanks alot

Heres my spring out of my pump
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0723101806.jpg)
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on July 24, 2010, 02:10:59 pm
Your post tells me that my spring thing is too small for my 210mm clutch... mine from my 200mm clutch went in fairly easy.
well, yours a 210mm that's a bonus! that plus manual steering rack AND AC! you have it all! that engine looks to be in incredible shape.

most mk1 cars had manual steering.

most mk2 cars had power steering.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on July 25, 2010, 12:15:26 am
I have a oil pressure gauge and i need to know the best place to drill and tap a hold for the sending unit.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on July 25, 2010, 12:34:11 am
Hey Corey, that 83 looks to be in pretty well kept shape.
Its the only 83 TD that i know about in our state.
Probly at least a couple few others somewhere out here, but they are scarce. Only know of one 84 TD.

Try to TEE off the oil port on the driver side of the cylinder head where the low oil sensor is. A tee will retain the sender too.
That is the lowest pressure/best spot to get reading from.

If it is an electrical gauge - you might can just splice into the wire for the low pressure sender.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: wolf_walker on July 25, 2010, 02:50:35 pm
Good looking project, are you on ncdubs?
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on July 25, 2010, 05:27:07 pm
No im not on that but several people has asked me about it. I like to keep it all diesel tho   ;)
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on July 25, 2010, 05:33:13 pm
Hey Corey, that 83 looks to be in pretty well kept shape.
Its the only 83 TD that i know about in our state.
Probly at least a couple few others somewhere out here, but they are scarce. Only know of one 84 TD.

Try to TEE off the oil port on the driver side of the cylinder head where the low oil sensor is. A tee will retain the sender too.
That is the lowest pressure/best spot to get reading from.

If it is an electrical gauge - you might can just splice into the wire for the low pressure sender.


Hey man! thats awesome that its one of few in our state! It is in excellent condition for the year.

Im thinking of a way to TEE off the oil port, i know what your talking about but i dont know how i would tee off of it.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: wolfsburged on July 25, 2010, 09:25:44 pm
I'm in Raleigh and have a close relative to your car, but mine's an '84 Jetta GL TD vs your 83. Pretty rare in this setup, and looks like you have a real nice example to start with. I'll be starting the same project this coming weekend for a rebuild. Will be keeping a close eye on this thread. I'm on NC Dubs as well.

We need to have an NC IDI diesel meet at some point.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on July 25, 2010, 10:57:53 pm
I'm in Raleigh and have a close relative to your car, but mine's an '84 Jetta GL TD vs your 83. Pretty rare in this setup, and looks like you have a real nice example to start with. I'll be starting the same project this coming weekend for a rebuild. Will be keeping a close eye on this thread. I'm on NC Dubs as well.

We need to have an NC IDI diesel meet at some point.

Are you gonna post pics of your build? Your car has a moon roof right? I know we need to have a meet some where i would like to see some other diesel mkI and MKIIs around NC
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on July 26, 2010, 01:21:52 am
Drilled and Taped a place for my EGT probe
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0726100053.jpg)

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0726100059.jpg)

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0726100059a.jpg)

Heres the oil pressure gauge sending unit. im still thing about how im going to tap off the low pressure switch. that sending unit is pretty big
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0726100102.jpg)
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on July 26, 2010, 02:07:44 am
We need to have an NC IDI diesel meet at some point.

We could all gang up and go crash the VW Gasaholics get-together at Tom's shop in Winston sometime.

Corey, try these:

1. hooking up your gauge by a wire going to the low press sender and see what happens.

2. see if the new sender will screw into the head without leaking. Some of the senders are not metric threaded. But sometimes you can run a metric die on them an convert them.

I'd rather have the gauge than the low press warning.

3. Most hardware brass TEE's will be standard thread sizes - but hopefully you can find or improvise something eventually. I'm not sure how the Mk1 GTI and cabby's have the senders arranged, but they have gauge sender and warning senders, both. Maybe you need some hardware from a gasser.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: theman53 on July 26, 2010, 08:27:18 am
I bought an air manifold with 1/4npt inlets. Then you can either tap the spot you want from the factory m10-1.0 to 1/8npt and get an adaptor from 1/8 to 1/4 OR Buy a special M10-1.0 to 1/4npt fitting. I did this so I could run the turbo feed, oil temp, and oil pressure.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on July 26, 2010, 11:22:05 am
I think im going to eliminate the low oil pressure switch and just tap the gauge into the head instaed
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: theman53 on July 26, 2010, 11:26:11 am
http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Way-Air-Connector-Manifold-Solid-Brass-/170510404813?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b3364ccd (http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Way-Air-Connector-Manifold-Solid-Brass-/170510404813?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b3364ccd)

That is what I was talking about. Then you can run both :D
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on July 27, 2010, 03:16:00 pm
Thats really neat ive never seen anything like that, but i doubt my oil pressure sending unit will work. Its too big
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Smokey Eddy on July 27, 2010, 04:02:55 pm
your egt sender looks eeeeerily similar to mine ;)
in location and product :)

ps. I THINK (someone please correct this if im wrong) but the low pressure switch, blue[on the right side of the head], triggers no matter what where as there is a higher pressure switch, grey[above the filter], that triggers over a certain RPM read from the W terminal (blue wire) on your alternator.

You want to keep the blue one and can scrap the grey one if you're improoving the monitoring with a gauge. That way if you have catastrophic oil loss the low pressure switch will still set off the light & buzzer in your dash incase your gauge fails to raise your awareness.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on July 27, 2010, 04:23:56 pm
your egt sender looks eeeeerily similar to mine ;)
in location and product :)

ps. I THINK (someone please correct this if im wrong) but the low pressure switch, blue[on the right side of the head], triggers no matter what where as there is a higher pressure switch, grey[above the filter], that triggers over a certain RPM read from the W terminal (blue wire) on your alternator.

You want to keep the blue one and can scrap the grey one if you're improoving the monitoring with a gauge. That way if you have catastrophic oil loss the low pressure switch will still set off the light & buzzer in your dash incase your gauge fails to raise your awareness.

That egt probe was dirt cheap all this stuff im getting is! i like my gauges tho!

I think i might just use the oil pressure gauge and scrap the one on the head i dont think its that big of a deal.

But i do have one question i was pressure washing my block the other day and a oring type thing got blown out of the block i have no idea what it was or where it goes. It was a really baby round oring, Im afraid if i get the engine back together i wont have any oil pressure because i dont know what it goes to or the location.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: jseeley on July 27, 2010, 05:07:36 pm
.... one question i was pressure washing my block the other day and a oring type thing got blown out of the block i have no idea what it was or where it goes. It was a really baby round oring, Im afraid if i get the engine back together i wont have any oil pressure because i dont know what it goes to or the location.

how small? dipstick o-ring?
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: wolfsburged on July 27, 2010, 09:51:15 pm
Heres the oil pressure gauge sending unit. im still thing about how im going to tap off the low pressure switch. that sending unit is pretty big
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0726100102.jpg)

I have a similar sized dual sender from a Cabriolet - came with the triple gauge setup I got. It is too big to fit in the stock warning sender spot, the oil return line is in the way.

I was thinking of either getting a T fitting or using some sort of relocating kit. Other option I would like to try is getting a seperate, smaller pressure transducer and tapping another hole in the head for it. Interested to see what you do.

What EGT setup are you going with? I've been eying up the Isspro gauges. I like the green/yellow/red markings on the gauges.

We should organize and NC diesel meet sometime. Todd - I still need to see these trucks of yours!

I'll post a build thread here once I start pulling the motor. For now, you can check out the past 2 years worth of progress on NC Dubs. It's been a joint project of my now-wife and I. http://forums.ncdubs.org/showthread.php?t=11115 (http://forums.ncdubs.org/showthread.php?t=11115)

Another NC Dubber just picked up a 2 door silver Jetta diesel.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: JessaBug on July 28, 2010, 11:42:05 am
Definitely awesome to see another Mk1 TD around the state! I'm Wolfsburged's wife :)

Definitely should check out NC Dubs. There is an '82 diesel Jetta that just got picked up in Havelock, I think. Got another Mk1 Jetta in Raleigh too getting worked on, but its a gasser. Seems as though the Mk1s are gaining in popularity lately.

Good luck on the rebuild! We'll definitely be watching the progress, especially once we get started on ours, which will hopefully be this weekend.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on July 28, 2010, 12:58:55 pm
.... one question i was pressure washing my block the other day and a oring type thing got blown out of the block i have no idea what it was or where it goes. It was a really baby round oring, Im afraid if i get the engine back together i wont have any oil pressure because i dont know what it goes to or the location.

how small? dipstick o-ring?

Like dime size. But the block is at the machine shop so i cant look at it at the moment
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on July 28, 2010, 01:43:18 pm
wolfsburged Thats going to be a awesome build! I am going to keep tab on your build

With the oil pressure gauge im just going to wait and see what happends cause thats going to be hard to rig something to work

I went with a Ebay EGT gauge. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersion&item=300431217753&view=all&tid=446814401020 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersion&item=300431217753&view=all&tid=446814401020)

Tell me when you want to do a meet and we can work it out( but ofcorse after we get our builds finished)
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: GEE-BEE on July 28, 2010, 02:09:53 pm
get the adapter ( oil) from McNally, screws into the oil filter housing

oil psi/ oil temp

I have 1/4 firejacket for you egt wire if you need it

I spent top dollar on my build and I want the best gauges for my readout

Mcnally is aircraft type, backlit with a button that shows max temp/and boost

GB
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: 87vr6 on July 28, 2010, 07:34:13 pm
.
Its the only 83 TD that i know about in our state.
Probly at least a couple few others somewhere out here, but they are scarce. Only know of one 84 TD.


There's bill and Jess's 84 TD, my buddy in wilmington has a caddy TD, another buddy in wilmy has an ECOdiesel, so kinda a 1.6td. And my newly acquired 82 will be a TD eventually.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on July 28, 2010, 08:45:08 pm
get the adapter ( oil) from McNally, screws into the oil filter housing

oil psi/ oil temp

I have 1/4 firejacket for you egt wire if you need it

I spent top dollar on my build and I want the best gauges for my readout

Mcnally is aircraft type, backlit with a button that shows max temp/and boost

GB

hi GB ill look at the adapter from mcnallys, Whats the firejacket do for the EGT probe? Wont it be ok like it is? I dont have one on my ALH.

I have a combo boost/EGT gauge from mcnallys for my ALH, but this car is a budget car only no expensive parts unless necessary

Corey
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: GEE-BEE on July 29, 2010, 02:04:01 am
It just protects the wire from the turbo, its what I make for the aircraft industry

search Firesleeve or firejacket

aircraftspruce.com

I just started making it in blue, looks like a new 997C4s ( Porsche cabroliet  All wheel drive ) if the product takes off

Gee-Bee
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on July 29, 2010, 07:22:21 pm
Finally got the timing gear bolt off...
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0721102344.jpg)

And everything else.
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0721102346.jpg)

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0719100054.jpg)

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0721102345a.jpg)

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0721102345.jpg)

heres the bolt before i had to beat the crap outta it
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0721101430.jpg)
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Smokey Eddy on July 29, 2010, 07:44:06 pm
That bolt can be a tough explitive to get out. looks like you're progress is coming along swimmingly. Get that thing cleaned up and shiny! :D it's in excellent shape - no rust!
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on July 30, 2010, 02:11:08 am
Thats right its at the machine shop right now. i hope they press thos tough intermediate shaft bearings in, if not ill have to figure up a way to press them in
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on July 30, 2010, 03:19:53 am
theres a way to do it yourself, and its outlined in the faq section..
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on July 30, 2010, 12:37:03 pm
ah i see thats a pain in the ass i hope the machine shop just puts 2 bearings in there
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on July 30, 2010, 01:39:15 pm
.
Its the only 83 TD that i know about in our state.
Probly at least a couple few others somewhere out here, but they are scarce. Only know of one 84 TD.


There's bill and Jess's 84 TD, my buddy in wilmington has a caddy TD, another buddy in wilmy has an ECOdiesel, so kinda a 1.6td. And my newly acquired 82 will be a TD eventually.

Mr.& Mrs.Wolfsburged's 84 TDGL is the one i was refering to.  ;)
Factory Mk1 TD's are few and far between in these parts.
UltraUltraRare
Heck, 85-86 TD's are very scarce items too, around NC.

I just got back last night from a trip to Tylertown/Gilesville Canada in my 81 TDTruck (that Bill located) and brought back a complete running 85 TD engine/tranny and a hydra TD longblock/TD inj.pump.

The guy i bought my white 85 TDGL (that Jess located) from last year, has a white 92 ECO car he couldn't get to run. I think $400-500 would buy that ECO car.

A local good friend of mine drives a kinda beat up gold 85 TDGL daily (i found this one), with working ice cold A/C and an excellent drivetrain. He just bought a nice identical colored 86 GL Gasser non-running, for parts.
So after some body panel swaps and interior swap, it should be a pretty good looking car again.



Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on July 30, 2010, 02:30:23 pm
... Todd - I still need to see these trucks of yours!

The 81 Truck has come a LONG way from its as-bought condition.
It was a great candidate, and have no regrets.
The biggest cosmetic issue was the passenger side quarter panel (you might remember). The entire passenger rear wheel was exposed, it was knocked in so hard/far. Got that pulled with hydraulics just in time for the Canadian journey. It came out rather well - no bondo work on it yet - just the metal work.

Now the whole passenger side is semi-black, along with the hood.
Driver side and tailgate are factory gold.
So its an Appalachian State two-tone jobby.

Was able to get about 500 test miles on it before going to Canada.
Then about 1700 miles on that expedition.
Probably about 1500 pounds (500 pound factory limit) of campershell bedliner tools cargo and engine misc packed into it coming back over those crazy azz W.Virg and Virg mountains.
The HD rear suspension did its job completely.

Truck has now received all its merit badges and gold star awards after completing that Extreme Tour of Duty.
Will keep it forever.

The 82 Truck - done nothing with it yet.
Except robbed its rear HD step-bumper to swap onto the 81.

Pardon the interruption.
Now back to the regularly scheduled program .... :)




Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on July 30, 2010, 03:39:31 pm
Bad News guys >:( the machine shop called me today and told me the head is cracked between all the valve seats the head is wrecked  :-[

So im going to have to find a good used one, how much does one cost for a 1.6 TD CY?

Does anyone know if i can put a natural asprated head on my engine?
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on July 30, 2010, 05:09:52 pm
Bad News guys >:( the machine shop called me today and told me the head is cracked between all the valve seats the head is wrecked  :-[

Perfectly NORMAL for an older IDI, in most all cases.
If a dime will not fit in the cracks ... its good for another build.
Try and go get some pix if possible and post them.
They usually grind and dress the cracks, and proceed as normal.

You aren't using a diesel oriented shop, just one that will try to do diesel parts and gladly accept your money. Most shops are hurting for any and all business they can get. And will try to work with anything they can get in through the door.

You can use an NA 12mm mechanical head - if it comes to that.
You'd want to install your TD valves into the NA head for best result.
99.5 % of any used IDI head you find will also have cracks between the valves.

Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: theman53 on July 30, 2010, 06:08:28 pm
Yeah I wouldn't worry too much until they fit that dime. Air cooled engines plus did my head for under 500 shipped and used all stainless under cut swirl polished valves. I told him to weld the cracks and machine it and he laughed at me. Said he has seen cracks almost 5mm and ran for 100,000 miles no problem...I went his way, it was cheaper :D
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: wolf_walker on July 30, 2010, 07:48:51 pm
I would not have a shop that isn't aware of this issue with the cracks doing machine work on a VW diesel, unless they are really very, very, very verifiabliy good.  Unfortunately that does not leave you a lot of choice in machines shops.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on July 31, 2010, 01:08:26 am
Okay ill go to the machine shop next week and take a look and take a few pictures. the person at the machine shop said there was a slight crack at the water jacket also.

Im going to the junk yard saturday to get a head off of a NA engine i can get them for dirt cheap.

Wolf walker there is no diesel oriented shops around where i live, i know if i could I would use a shop that knows diesel engines really well.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on July 31, 2010, 03:26:50 am
Just to refresh and to be sure you know - since engines do get swapped around - 70's through 81 or early'ish 82 VW diesel engines used 11mm headbolts. You don't want to grab an 11mm head. An 84 might have an 81 engine replaced into it.

Take one of your old headbolts with you - pull 1 headbolt from potential donor - and compare thickness/length. If its not a triplesquare headbolt - no point in checking those. If it is triplesquare/12 point - it can still be an 11mm gasser headbolt substituted.

It also needs to be mechanical lifters.
Mechanical has 1 oil drainback port in front.
Hydra has 2 of them in front.
An 85 could have an 89 engine replaced into it.

What you want to end up with is a 1982 through mid'ish 1986 12mm mech head. If you have any of the toothbrush sized wire brushes, you could spot check the severity of cracks between valves before paying for the head.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: theman53 on July 31, 2010, 08:46:36 am
286 2nd Avenue
Tiffin, OH 44883-1327
(419) 443-8987

The guy is named John. Great guy. Same that did my head. I think I had 500.00 shipped both ways for full port and polish, SS valves, flowbench tested, and complete rebuild. If you didn't get port, polish, and flowbench I bet it would be at least 100 cheaper.

While on the topic of machine shops, if they are boring the block Bentley says .001". That shouldn't be taken lightly as the wear limit is something like .003". The .003" is where most diesels are bored to with .008" or so wear limit. If they are scared of the .001" spec you might want to look elsewhere again. If they did it to more than .001" get different pistons and rebore as someone on here didn't IIRC and was using oil like the BP spill with hard starts too.
I am not saying that to scare you, but it is cheaper now than later if it can be avoided.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on July 31, 2010, 12:55:06 pm
Corey, since you are in Mocksville - Winston area isn't too far off.
There has to be some good diesel based machine shops in Winston.

We have a VW Guru of all flavors in Winston named Tom Landock who runs his own shop. His specialties and passions are aircooled, mk1 and mk2 - but he services/works on brand new stuff too.

Tom is a first class kinda VW guy, and he could probably point you towards an appropiate diesel machinist if there is need to swap shops at any point.

Theman53 is talking about the tolerance between the piston and the bore. And its a high precision operation when it comes down to 0.001 - no room for the operators error or old worn equipment.

Those ar fair prices in Ohio with shipping.
Not getting new valves would probly drop it another 200+/-.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on July 31, 2010, 03:01:16 pm
The head at the junk yard was allen bolts i know it wasnt right then. So i just left it on there.

The machine shop has already bored my block with a piston to wall at .0015 I think that will be fine at .001 I think it would be really hard to get the piston in the block when im ready to put back together.

I really wish i knew all of this before i started to rebuild it.

Ill post some pictures of the head up on monday when i go look at it.

Thanks Guys for all yalls help :)
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on July 31, 2010, 04:51:51 pm
Thats one of the benefits of networking on these forums.
NCDubs doesn't have a lot going on really in the IDI diesel market. But there are good contacts to be made on the site.
Mk1 and Mk2 sections have a good following, sorta.

0.0015 will be okay. But get a new set of feeler gauges that go down that low and verify each before assembly. The machinist always expects the assembler to verify and leaves that on their shoulders. Its called LLC.

IF its still there, i can hook you up with an 85 12mm Mech head in eastern side of Greensboro. Been about a month since last visit.

Ask them to point out the water jacket crack and re-examine it, and also have a dime in your pocket for the cracks between the valves. Actually - i think the thumb rule is if its No Bigger than a dime.

So tell me about the mk1 in your junkyard.
Was it a 4door rabbit ? a 4door jetta ?
Good fenders or front doors on it ?
I might need to go there ..... i need some stuff !
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on August 01, 2010, 01:38:24 am
Thats one of the benefits of networking on these forums.
NCDubs doesn't have a lot going on really in the IDI diesel market. But there are good contacts to be made on the site.
Mk1 and Mk2 sections have a good following, sorta.

0.0015 will be okay. But get a new set of feeler gauges that go down that low and verify each before assembly. The machinist always expects the assembler to verify and leaves that on their shoulders. Its called LLC.

IF its still there, i can hook you up with an 85 12mm Mech head in eastern side of Greensboro. Been about a month since last visit.

Ask them to point out the water jacket crack and re-examine it, and also have a dime in your pocket for the cracks between the valves. Actually - i think the thumb rule is if its No Bigger than a dime.

So tell me about the mk1 in your junkyard.
Was it a 4door rabbit ? a 4door jetta ?
Good fenders or front doors on it ?
I might need to go there ..... i need some stuff !

Im starting to like this site a whole lot more than TDIclub there becoming like vortex sorta :o

So to verify i get a feeler gauge and stick it between the piston and the cyl wall? when the pistons are installed? Im guessing.

IF its still there( After i go check my head at the shop ) and my heads bad ill get with you on that head you found

So at the junk yard i go to there is 3 mk1 diesels there(theres a lot more mk1 gassers) all the cars is in alright condition based on the body, just the inside is gone to waste. I go to 109 U-pull-it its right off I-40 coming from Greensboro to Winston

question for anyone: I got my pistons with the rings already installed but when i try to close them as if i were installing them in the block the rings touch at the gap a little, i think im going to have to grind them down a few thousands of an inch 
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on August 01, 2010, 02:57:10 am
Cool. I've seen their commercials on TV, but never been yet.
Might go this week.

The head in Gboro is something i can put you onto - or i can get it for you. They don't have a phone line anymore, and they don't inventory older parts anyhow. You basically just have to go and see whats left. They do inventory the cars themselves, but now that i can't even call them - its tuffer to deal with.
I owe you a returned favor, so no probo trying to help out.

This is the best VW IDI Diesel forum in the USA/Canada.
Vortex Diesel forum was a good one, but i can't navigate that site anymore worth a hoot since they switched platforms. And majority of those guys are here too.
You go into the mk1 mk2 sections of Vortex and you find some real clown acts going on.

I'm not a TDI guy, so i leave those TDI boards alone.

Yes, bare piston in the hole - slide in the feeler gauge. No rings.

On the rings, lil odd they were pre-installed.
They need to come back off, and thats tedious as well as risky.
Be VERY cautious and patient.
Put one at a time in the bore (if it will fit?) and measure the end gap with feeler gauge. Hopefully they came with papers giving end gap tolerance.

You'll want to find which piston fits which cylinder best, and mark them respectively.

Then basically do same with each group of rings.
Designate each group per certain cylinder, especially if they have to be file fit.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on August 01, 2010, 10:26:29 am
There stuff is a little pricey but I dont know of any other cheaper place to go to yet.

On the rings, thats what i thought was odd also pistons dont ever come with rings installed.
Im a little worried about taking them back off I dont want to scratch the crap outta the piston
Nope no papers with the end gap tolerance  :(

Ill start all of this when i get my block back next week im hoping!
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on August 01, 2010, 03:52:47 pm
Where did you buy the pistons / rings from ?
N.C. vendor in Matthews/IndianTrail/Charlotte ?

I'd try to contact whomever to get end gap specs, and then express displeasure of them being pre-installed.
They may have been returned previously by another customer when found they wouldn't close around piston. No telling.

I've had to remove rings before. Its tedious work.
It might help to cut a section out of a milk jug and wrap the area of piston that the ring end will move across.

If you get gouges/scratches - you can polish them out with 600 grit wetpaper and odorless mineral spirits (or soapy water).

I'm sorta meticulous, but i always use 600 grit wetpaper on the top chamfer edge, and any suspicious looking/feeling area of a cast piston.
(after checking tolerance with feeler gauge first - in case they have to be returned)

I also polish the surface and deburr/chamfer edges of new bearing shells with 600.

And, i go across all the rings quickly to remove any burrs or sharp raised edges with 600.

I run a tap into all bolt holes and a die over all the bolts.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on August 01, 2010, 05:50:41 pm
fwiw - i forgot to mention - the biggest thing about removing the rings is not so much scratching the piston - its Breaking / Snapping the Ring.

Seen it happen.
They bend and flex and give "some" - but not much.
Pretty brittle trinkets.
Go slow and don't try to pull lower rings all the way up over top in one whack. Take it to the next groove and work its way up in stages like that.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: wolf_walker on August 01, 2010, 10:21:40 pm
They make a ring spreader dealy that helps, but you can do it by hand if you have to.  They also make a ring filer tool that is really sweet, but it's usually money if you are only doing one build now and again.  Use the bare piston to push the ring down in the bore also when you measure, keeps it straight.  Measure at a couple different points too.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on August 01, 2010, 11:21:54 pm
I bought the pistons and rings from www.dieselvw.com (http://www.dieselvw.com)

It will be a chore to take the rings off ill work on that tomorrow! hope its successful with out breaking any
that 600 grit sandpaper would be a good idea also, but i dont have enough time to tap all the bolt holes and studs

should i do the oil ring also it looks kinda close, i think the end gap for the rings is in the bently manual. I would go the the shop and get it but im too lazy right now  ;) ill post them tomorrow morning!
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: wolf_walker on August 02, 2010, 12:36:00 am
There is some question to the quality of parts from dieselvw, he's known and has a bunch of domains he sells under.  China made, not all bad but still.  Last I think I remember hearing the pistons were ok but the rings were suspect.  Someone will elaborate I'm sure.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on August 02, 2010, 12:47:12 am
Yep, thats the guy in Matthews/IndianTrail/Charlotte NC.
Prothe
He uses several city names, and several dotcom names, and he's on eBay too.

People have had decent success with his pistons and rings in the past. But never heard anyone say they came with rings installed.
Leads me to think they were returned that way by a customer when they noticed the conflict.

On a side note, he also sells a lotta crappy shet.
For a dollar or two more you can usually get quality brand name merchandise instead of his junk. But his piston price is unmatchable.

Not too many things he sells are worth buying at any price.

The oil control rings are easiest to remove.
They need to come off and be checked inside the bore too.
You'll really hate yourself if this thing has something wrong you could have avoided with an extra hour or two of time.

I'd at minimum run a tap in the headbolt holes.

You want to get one end of ring started upward towards top, then spiral your way around the rest of the ring, moving the start end upwards more as slack allows along the way. When you can get about half the start end up over top of piston crown easily - you can usually spiral the rest of it right on off from the start end.

You'll get a hang of it and feel for what works.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: theman53 on August 02, 2010, 08:41:52 am
If I were you I would get new rings. At least 3 on this board have had excessive blowby and oil usage in 10,000 miles or less with his rings. All that used his pistons with other rings have been happy from what I read. Autohaus has a good selection, just make sure you watch the qtys as some are sold as sets and some are sold per peice.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on August 02, 2010, 12:39:11 pm
Here the picture from the head

this one is cracked from the prechamber to the intake valve and then between each valve
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0802101152.jpg)

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0802101152b.jpg)

heres a crack where the injector goes
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0802101152a.jpg)

this is where the lifter was cracked and screwed up
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0802101154.jpg)
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on August 02, 2010, 12:43:58 pm
ill just go ahead and get new rings because that a crucial part but i got to find some rings that fit .040 over pistons

Im going to be moving to college soon here in the next week so ill be pretty busy and wont get to workon anything for a while probably
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on August 02, 2010, 01:30:34 pm
AutohausAZ and many others prices are actually lower than Prothes price on rings. His pistons are what has the unbeatable price.
I don't have all my links on this laptop.
Maybe some others can help out with links to guys like Jack in Ohio, and MykeW our sponsor - if you can't find them at AutohausAZ or egermanparts or the like.

A lotta guys would run that head again. Especially if they had no immediate or easy alternative.
The injector boss crack would concern me the most.
Overall, if i had option, i'd try to source a better head.

I'd want to verify those pistons in the bores ASAP.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: wolfsburged on August 02, 2010, 04:56:18 pm
ill just go ahead and get new rings because that a crucial part but i got to find some rings that fit .040 over pistons

Im going to be moving to college soon here in the next week so ill be pretty busy and wont get to workon anything for a while probably

Where are you going to college?
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on August 02, 2010, 05:21:53 pm
if i run that head again can i get some one to tig weld that injector boss? and make it like new?

i cant check the piston to bore yet there still not done at the machine shop, but they have one of my pistons.

Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on August 02, 2010, 05:24:53 pm

[/quote]

Where are you going to college?
[/quote]

Im going to college in Wilmington to cape fear CC for there diesel program 
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on August 02, 2010, 05:55:43 pm
tig weld that injector boss?

they have one of my pistons.

Yes on the tig weld.

The precup would need to be staked around the perimeter for some insurance too.

I can't tell what amount of damage the lifter did that much.
It looks like a small scratch.

But ... if i were you ... i'd be driving to GSO tomorrow and checking that head out. I was just saying if no alternatives existed.

Its good they have a piston. Maybe they have pulled the rings - or will pull the rings - and advise the ring status. You might can get a refund on the rings if they are found out of spec.

I'm going to ask BYM to join the thread and have a look at your head pix.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on August 02, 2010, 06:09:54 pm
I asked BYM to give a look and an opinion.

Got to thinking about this being a TD, and the mods you've done on the other car you have. If you go throwing above stock fuel and boost levels at this thing eventually - it might not be good to re-use that head in the long run. Concerning the crack going to the precup.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: theman53 on August 02, 2010, 07:37:39 pm
If he has the tig out you could fix everything that is cracked and have it remachined. With the head off it should be easy to tig the injector boss. I had a guy tig one for me on the car and it worked. I don't have a spare mech head or I would let you borrow, buy, or trade when yours was fixed. I am thinking in a pinch you might be able to plug the oil drain in a hydro head. I think saurkrat did it with a 1.9L on a 1.5 block, not for sure though. It maybe more work than going on fleabay and finding a mech head and rebuilding it.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on August 02, 2010, 09:59:10 pm
tig weld that injector boss?

they have one of my pistons.

Yes on the tig weld.

The precup would need to be staked around the perimeter for some insurance too.

I can't tell what amount of damage the lifter did that much.
It looks like a small scratch.

But ... if i were you ... i'd be driving to GSO tomorrow and checking that head out. I was just saying if no alternatives existed.

Its good they have a piston. Maybe they have pulled the rings - or will pull the rings - and advise the ring status. You might can get a refund on the rings if they are found out of spec.

I'm going to ask BYM to join the thread and have a look at your head pix.

How much do you think that head will be? Im a little limited on money right now i know this is not the best time to start a rebuild but i started it so i have to finish plus i didnt know i would run into all these problems.

Im trying to find the cheapest way to rebuild the head so i think tig welding it would be pretty cheap.
And im not going to do the things ive done to my TDI to this car, this is going to be just a get in and go car that gets 50MPG'S  ;)

would i have to take the precup out to weld that crack? and would i have to take the valve seats out to weld the cracks in between them?

theman53 thanks for offering to buy or trade if you had one, but i dont want to have to fix the extra oil hole on a hydro head thats more than want i want to do.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on August 02, 2010, 11:24:13 pm
Just go get that head tomorrow.

Silver 85 Golf 4door NA 5spd - row #1
Greensboro Auto Parts (GAPCO) U-Pull-It
$30-40 and they'll charge extra for the injectors if you leave them in more than likely ($5 each).
Then they'll have a core charge of 5-10 for the head. You can take some old car batteries ($5 each) to use for core swaps, old alternators, old starters, some kinda junk head, or just pay the core charge.

Remember to always exert tool force TOWARDS the engine - NOT towards the Radiator - when removing OR installing injectors.

Take a wire brush and check the chambers good after its pulled.
I like the toothbrush sized ones from HarborFreight. And prefer to use the brass one on aluminum.

Last time i was there, only the inj pump and inj lines were gone.
I got the vane vac pump.
I need the cam gear and bolt from the head - or your old ones.
And the IM shaft pulley with bolt.
Need the IM shaft too - but not 100% sure it will come out still in the car. It might tho. Grab that stuff for me if you can. I'll come get it and pay you. It will be cheap.

The tig welding will cost you about that much probly.
The real problem is finding the right shop with the right equipment that will be able to surface the head after its welded.
The precups are hard - the head is soft - then the welds.
Most places cant do our heads - and its gonna cost too.


Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on August 03, 2010, 01:08:22 am
Just go get that head tomorrow.

Silver 85 Golf 4door NA 5spd - row #1
Greensboro Auto Parts (GAPCO) U-Pull-It
$30-40 and they'll charge extra for the injectors if you leave them in more than likely ($5 each).
Then they'll have a core charge of 5-10 for the head. You can take some old car batteries ($5 each) to use for core swaps, old alternators, old starters, some kinda junk head, or just pay the core charge.

Remember to always exert tool force TOWARDS the engine - NOT towards the Radiator - when removing OR installing injectors.

Take a wire brush and check the chambers good after its pulled.
I like the toothbrush sized ones from HarborFreight. And prefer to use the brass one on aluminum.

Last time i was there, only the inj pump and inj lines were gone.
I got the vane vac pump.
I need the cam gear and bolt from the head - or your old ones.
And the IM shaft pulley with bolt.
Need the IM shaft too - but not 100% sure it will come out still in the car. It might tho. Grab that stuff for me if you can. I'll come get it and pay you. It will be cheap.

The tig welding will cost you about that much probly.
The real problem is finding the right shop with the right equipment that will be able to surface the head after its welded.
The precups are hard - the head is soft - then the welds.
Most places cant do our heads - and its gonna cost too.




Alrighty gonna make the trip tomorrow... can the IM shaft come out with the engine in the car? i thought it would hit the finder-well? but hey ill try.

You think that tranny will fit my TD? if its still good? Cause i dont know what my Trans code is or anything about these tran. in the MK1
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on August 03, 2010, 01:17:34 am
whens the last time you were there?
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on August 03, 2010, 01:36:38 am
About 4 weeks ago.
The last 2 diesel vw's got crushed with the engines still in them.
Car and engine more than likely will be there still.
I'm sure the car will be - head more than likely should be.
Never know for sure until you go.
Only other possibility would be Tom in Winston.
He gets $100, if he has the right one.

Tranny would probably work. Its an ACH code.
Probly same ring and pinion and 5th as what yours would have come with. Tranny code is on bottom of tranny bellhousing.
Codes - ring&pinions - 5th's are listed on www.a2resource.com (http://www.a2resource.com)

Most 85-86 trannys will bolt into mk1.
You have to verify the mounting points.
Good thread on here not too long ago - i have a good pic can email showing what needs to be in order to bolt up with mk1.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on August 03, 2010, 01:46:06 am
That car is on first or second row.
Seems it was right hand side of first row - about midway.

mk2 has a lil more fenderwell room than mk1 - but idunno for sure if the IM shaft will come out or not. Probly not. But a good look will tell. Too lazy to walk out and up to car with a light. And the dogs will start up barking and crap.

Good luck in Gboro, pretty good place to deal with.
Costs $1 to get inside.
Ask about any upcoming special deal days.
They haven't done any in a while.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: burn_your_money on August 03, 2010, 10:35:23 am
I wouldn't use that head unless you get the injector boss welded up and get it pressure tested.

Ideally it should be sent to frank06 on TDI club to be fully welded up and machined but that is money.

If you are using a NA head I would swap the precups and valves over since you have a solid lifter head.

Good looking build, I love the mk1 Jetta :)

Regarding your question about the advance spring in the pump, if you change it start with stock timing and if you find it lacking or rattling in the top end then adjust the timing as needed.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on August 03, 2010, 11:36:21 am

If you are using a NA head I would swap the precups and valves over since you have a solid lifter head.

Hey Burn, I'm in tune with swapping the sodium filled valve stemmed valves - can you bring us (me) up to speed on the perk for swapping out the precups ? And how is that done ?

Never been into the precup section or had one out - or read anything about proceedure getting one out / putting one in.
Doesn't have to be an exhaustive write, just in general.
Or a link.

Thanky
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on August 03, 2010, 02:30:30 pm
Went to the junk yard this morning got the head off in an hour and thirty mins. One intake manifold bolt gave me a problem it stripped out and i had to hammer a size up allen in there,

Baron- I didnt get the IM shaft off or the pully the car was on the ground in the very back plus it was hot as hell and i wanted to get the hell outta there. sorry buddy ill probably go another time to that place its really clean place to be a junk yard, ive never been to one where almost all the cars are jacked up. I owe you one for the find i never would have known it was there,

Well on to the Head the head looks exclent there is no cracks in the injector boss or between the valve seats, but there is some crack in the precups very tiny tho. I want to know how to remove the precups and install new one just like baron said because if they dont have to i DO NOT want the machine shop doing it, Can i do it with just general tools?

Im going to reuse the valves outta the other head there fine for another rebuild.

Were heres a picture of the head

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0803101407.jpg)

heres a little cracks in the precups
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0803101408.jpg)

Thanks everyone for your help one step closer to getting her running! I Cant wait!!
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on August 03, 2010, 02:31:48 pm
oh yeah $48 for that head W/O a core also. alsome deal i think  :D
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on August 03, 2010, 04:54:42 pm
It was probly 35 on the head, 10 core, 3 tax
Can't beat it !

So glad it was a good head, and still there.
Car was strait up unmolested looking when it came in, but had been sitting somewhere undriven for a while. Had a feeling it was good parts mechanically speaking.

Since its been moved to the back, and sitting on the ground, that means its getting crushed real soon. It was on row 1/2 up front sitting 18-24 inches off ground like the rest. Anything sitting on the ground is now crushbait.

I might try to go this week, but its getting hotter than hellfire again now, after such a pleasant weekend. I'm about 40-45 minutes south of that place.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: theman53 on August 03, 2010, 06:06:11 pm
I am not an expert, but every TD head I have seen has had the mark on the precups like that. I think mine were triangles, but see what everyone else on here says. I think you may have got the best score ever. If there are more you could make a living off of guys like me that have NO source but the internet for used VW parts...or my last car that died.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: burn_your_money on August 03, 2010, 08:03:12 pm
About the precups, I read on one of those technical sheets about the VW engine that they used different precups on the TD engines. I'm kind of assuming that this was only on the early (solid lifter) TDs but I have no idea. I thought I read it on 4crawler.com but I can't find it right now.

To remove them, I've read that you tape the hole shut and then through the injector boss fill it with salt. Then you use the biggest punch you can and give it a good whack.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: kingler5 on August 03, 2010, 09:54:29 pm
Sometimes those precups just fall out when you pull a head, so I don't think there's much holding em in.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on August 03, 2010, 11:56:47 pm
Would be interesting to have that verified firsthand about the differences, and what they might be. And the advantage/disadvantage. Has anyone on the board made the comparison ?

Maybe Corey will be our test mule ?
You got the salt to spare Corey ?

Have no doubt, many many have used NA heads on TD's.
And many NA's have been upgraded to Turbo.
I don't think the precups will kill you left intact - but i'd want the best i could get if i had both alternates.

BYM has intrigued us here, for sure.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: burn_your_money on August 04, 2010, 12:07:09 am
http://www.4crawler.com/Diesel/SAE/vwtdsae.shtml (http://www.4crawler.com/Diesel/SAE/vwtdsae.shtml)
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on August 04, 2010, 12:19:32 am
Corey, hook me up with a leftover cam sprocket/washer/bolt and we are square. Maybe the belt tensioner nut and washer too.

The airbox was a good favor and a good fair deal - so you don't owe me too much extra on the favor scale.  :)

Just really glad the head is a good one, and that you got it before it went into the grinder. That would have been a bad waste of good product.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on August 04, 2010, 12:40:30 am
I think im going to have the head professional done by someone whos done these diesel heads before. just to make sure its done right, i dont think my machine shop i was using has no idea how to do a diesel head like ours... That www.partsplaceinc.com (http://www.partsplaceinc.com) i think is really good with reman heads.

Baron- I know this is going to sound like im trying to rip you off but i didnt get the cam sprocket or the washer/ nut i just left it in the engine bay of that car, I thought the less stuff i had on the head the less they would charge me... believe me i tried to take the injectors out but they were stuck and the coolent stuff didnt matter.

But i do have some stuff if your interested- i have pressure plate for a A4 ALH ;D , both the coolent things on the head, glow plugs and wiring, injectors, and thats all i can think of right now... you like racing lawn mowers i got some of those haha  :o

But i really do appreciated this help

and one more thing why in the hell do you use salt to get the precups out?!
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on August 04, 2010, 01:33:36 am
I'll try to get over there this week.
Woulda been same with or w/o the gear.
Cheap azz ! Told ya i'd pay for that stuff !
I'm 46 not 14. lol
The injectors would been only price increaser, and since they were stuck - they probly cut you the slack on them.

Partsplace in Michigan will just play middleman and cost you more money, plus shipping both ways.

The salt absorbs the blow impact, but transfers the force.
Instead of a direct metallic blow. And keeps tool from going stray and busting something else in there.
And makes it all taste better.

Take the head apart, Block Sand the deck with 400 wet, briefly.
Follow with 600 wet on Block Sander to clean up.
Hand lap the valves.
Go for the precups with the salt.
Button it back up.
Its done.

If you have to have pro work - call Tom Landock in the morning and get local ref. I'll be back in a moment with his number.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on August 04, 2010, 01:44:05 am
Tom Landock
Everything VW
3788 s. main st. winston- salem.

336-577-3484

Tell him Baron VonZeppelin the Diesel Dog refered you.
And tell him what you want to have done.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: theman53 on August 04, 2010, 08:52:33 am
286 2nd Avenue
Tiffin, OH 44883-1327
(419) 443-8987

The guy is named John. Great guy. Same that did my head. I think I had 500.00 shipped both ways for full port and polish, SS valves, flowbench tested, and complete rebuild. If you didn't get port, polish, and flowbench I bet it would be at least 100 cheaper
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on August 04, 2010, 09:33:51 am
I didnt know that it wouldnt cost with it before i walked out, believe me if i did i would have walked out with everything on that head lol

see the problem with doing it my self is i dont have any valve spring compressors  :-\ or i would do all of the work myself

Ill keep Toms number in my phone just
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on August 04, 2010, 09:35:57 am
286 2nd Avenue
Tiffin, OH 44883-1327
(419) 443-8987

The guy is named John. Great guy. Same that did my head. I think I had 500.00 shipped both ways for full port and polish, SS valves, flowbench tested, and complete rebuild. If you didn't get port, polish, and flowbench I bet it would be at least 100 cheaper

 See the only problem with him is i got to ship  the head, the guy Baron is talking about he is 15Mins away from me, I know he is probably really good but its just much easier to take it 15MIN
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on August 04, 2010, 12:14:21 pm
The order i listed of things to do to the head weren't in chronological order. It was late and the pillow was calling me with a real convincing tone.

If you're gonna do the precups, do them first.
And it might would require pro machining to deck the surface after they are staked in place. I've never gotten involved with precups.

I'm beginning to wonder if the upgrade they did for TD precups might have been instituted across the board on all precups. Wonder if there are part numbers that can be referenced to distinguish ?

As nice as that head is, majority on these boards would do the block sanding and hand lapping (with your TD valves) and go right ahead forward with it using new valve guide seals.

Its understandable if you don't have access or are more comfortable having it done by someone else. They'll probably clean it nice, check spring pressures, check valve giude clearances, install the guide seals (supposed to be a bit of a bicht), and hopefully re-shim the cam/lifter clearances if needed. Tom is the #1 go-to-guy around here. He was born in a VW, and hasn't left them since. His ol man is same way. They have connections when/where needed.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on August 04, 2010, 03:48:26 pm
Im going to do the precups when i have time but at this point in my life im pretty busy with everything about moving to college and getting everything ready and trying to find a job down in wilmington, plus getting my car back togather. so give me some time but everything will come back together eventually  ;) right i hope!

But open to tips and what yall think also

Baron- im am comfortable doing the head myself its just i dont have the proper tools to do get it done right. Ill take it to Tom when i get around to it, you talk like he is the best around, and i bet he is! ill mention you sent me maybe he will knock some change off lol

I always hand lap every engine ive rebuilt, i dont know of any other way of doing it.

I wish someone would chime in that knows alot of the precups, do the TD and NA have different parts numbers?
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on August 06, 2010, 06:31:39 pm
heres the differences in the head that i have.

Heres the cracked one the original one.
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0806101749.jpg)

Heres the new one
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0806101750.jpg)

the cracked one
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0806101750a.jpg)

The new one
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0806101750b.jpg)

 I dont think any of this would matter but im just showing it to yall folks
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on August 07, 2010, 04:59:36 pm
I think the consensus around here is  ... we don't have too much rhyme or reason behind the suffix following 373 on the heads.

Just to compound that - i have a complete 85 TD engine that appears to be unaltered. The head is 373 M.
Same as your 85 NA replacement head.

My 85 TD-GL was a two owner car and not a bolt nut or bracket missing. The head is 373 N.

The 82 12mm engine in my 81 Truck has a 373 B head.

The 2 Hydra TD engines are both 373 T heads.

I've asked Bill to get the number from his 84 TD head.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on March 12, 2011, 02:53:55 am
Okay Im back for a week (spring break) So this is what i have done this week workin a little here and there...

Cleaned the Block and painted it black.
 (http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0310111623.jpg)

Put the crank in and torqued the main bolts down
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0310111910.jpg)

slid the pistons in very carefully lol i was afraid i would hit the squirter. I didnt replace the Connecting rod nut (bolt) What the Bentley says i guess it will be fine. I didnt quite understand what they said to replace the stud or nut?
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0312110205.jpg)

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0312110206.jpg)


Does anyone know what this gasket goes to?
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0312110227.jpg)

I will resume for good this May with my engine...
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: coke on March 12, 2011, 03:13:30 am
That gasket on the bottom looks like the dual outlet exhaust manifold gasket.  I've never seen a diesel with a duel outlet manifold, but my gas 1.8 has one. It is safe to discard it.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on March 12, 2011, 03:18:34 am
That gasket on the bottom looks like the dual outlet exhaust manifold gasket.  I've never seen a diesel with a duel outlet manifold, but my gas 1.8 has one. It is safe to discard it.


thanks man. you want it? pay for shipping and ill give it to you!
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: coke on March 12, 2011, 03:40:13 am
All set. I sold that piece of crap for 250 bucks. I'm waiting on the guy to come get it.  I needed a car for my wife last year and it was available for 1500 and had "all kinds of work" done to it. Yeah, it had about 6 washers stacked on the clutch cable as spacers, and it was a manual cable vs the auto adjust. The exhaust mani leaked, and the brake lines and proportioning valve were a solid mass of rust.  So I don't need a gasket for it, haha. ;)
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on March 12, 2011, 11:54:13 am
haha i hear you it a dumb gasser anyways....
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: macka on March 12, 2011, 12:34:56 pm
I didnt know that it wouldnt cost with it before i walked out, believe me if i did i would have walked out with everything on that head lol

see the problem with doing it my self is i dont have any valve spring compressors  :-\ or i would do all of the work myself

Ill keep Toms number in my phone just

I don't have a compressor either. I used an 8 inch clamp and a O2 sensor to get the head disassembled.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on March 16, 2011, 02:28:44 pm
I didnt know that it wouldnt cost with it before i walked out, believe me if i did i would have walked out with everything on that head lol

see the problem with doing it my self is i dont have any valve spring compressors  :-\ or i would do all of the work myself

Ill keep Toms number in my phone just

I don't have a compressor either. I used an 8 inch clamp and a O2 sensor to get the head disassembled.

Im Just going to leave the head to the professionals...
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on March 16, 2011, 10:49:08 pm
Im looking for some new injectors now. I gotta get something stright before i buy some

1.6 td - 155bar
1.6 na- 130bar or 135bar
1.5 na- 115 bar ?

Im probably totally off but would someone correct me.

 And can i run 1.6 na injectors in my 1.6 td? I think the answer to that question is yes but i have to time the IP to 1.6 NA Correct? 
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on March 19, 2011, 11:40:19 am
does anyone know?
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on March 21, 2011, 12:00:26 am
NA 130-135
TD 155

Time to NA specs with NA injectors.

If you're going to get new/rebuilt injectors - go ahead and get the right pop pressure ones. The engineers surely had good reasons for making the TD a higher opening pressure and higher timing.

I think prothe still sells them for 100-125 set of 4 - new.
Never used them before.
But he offers 2 year warranty on them now.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on March 21, 2011, 12:37:00 am
NA 130-135
TD 155

Time to NA specs with NA injectors.

If you're going to get new/rebuilt injectors - go ahead and get the right pop pressure ones. The engineers surely had good reasons for making the TD a higher opening pressure and higher timing.

I think prothe still sells them for 100-125 set of 4 - new.
Never used them before.
But he offers 2 year warranty on them now.

thats a reason to try prothes injectors then. i can be ginny pig  ;) i have a lot of 130 bars sitting around my house but i want to go with oem specs.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Stix212 on March 31, 2011, 10:10:33 pm
wow
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on March 31, 2011, 10:17:55 pm
wow

flip it up side down it says "mom"

What about it?
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on March 31, 2011, 11:19:23 pm
What about it?

Stix must have seen the pictures of those Prothe injectors.

oops

lol damn those things were wacky
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on April 01, 2011, 12:12:08 am
lol i guess so... i guess i was the ginny pig someones got to do it  :-[
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on May 22, 2011, 12:45:32 pm
Ive done a little bit more to my motor. All im waiting on now is my head from the machine shop! And i need to get a head gasket also.
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0522111238.jpg)
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0522111239.jpg)
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/0517111630.jpg)
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on May 22, 2011, 01:17:29 pm
Im looking for some new injectors now. I gotta get something stright before i buy some

1.6 td - 155bar
1.6 na- 130bar or 135bar
1.5 na- 115 bar ?

Im probably totally off but would someone correct me.

 And can i run 1.6 na injectors in my 1.6 td? I think the answer to that question is yes but i have to time the IP to 1.6 NA Correct? 

time your pump to whatever injectors you are running..

and ORIGINAL 1.5 injectors were 180bar, and had a timing spec of 1.15mm..

the 155bar injectors atomize fuel better..

im running n/a injectors in my engine, with 15 psi..
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on May 22, 2011, 04:12:53 pm
I got some 155 bar ill probably go alittle above 1 its been awhile since ive looked how to time these things. Ive never timmed on of the mech. ones before. Ive always done the TDI's
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: JessaBug on May 24, 2011, 09:15:41 am
Vince Walden has a great how-to for the timing. We have a copy we keep with our timing tools.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on May 24, 2011, 10:45:34 am
I have that page my under my favorites haha thats a good how-to!
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 02, 2011, 10:02:10 am
Finally got my head back from the machine shop.. After 3 months so here she is
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/IMG_20110831_234223.jpg)

straping down the head
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/IMG_20110901_163417.jpg)

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/IMG_20110901_163432.jpg)
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 02, 2011, 10:04:37 am
All Timed up! timing belt on and ready to rock and roll! i put the timing at .040 i think that will be fine.
Im leaving for the beach one last time this year so ill be posting back pics when i come back up Monday.

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/IMG_20110901_180727.jpg)

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/IMG_20110901_180745.jpg)
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: CRSMP5 on September 02, 2011, 10:12:09 am
sadly i see 2 flaws..

1st... turbo in way to get manifold bolts tight on intake..

2nd.. timming belt tensioner is wrong direction.. gotta lift up on it vs down on old 1.6.. the lower cover is in the way the way you have it..
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 02, 2011, 02:24:24 pm
sadly i see 2 flaws..

1st... turbo in way to get manifold bolts tight on intake..

2nd.. timming belt tensioner is wrong direction.. gotta lift up on it vs down on old 1.6.. the lower cover is in the way the way you have it..

Thanks man ill fix that right up when i get back home! but i got the intake bolts pretty tight with the turbo and exhaust on first.. I got all kinds of swivels

Thanks  ;D
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Thezorn on September 03, 2011, 07:58:16 pm
sadly i see 2 flaws..

1st... turbo in way to get manifold bolts tight on intake..
2nd.. timming belt tensioner is wrong direction.. gotta lift up on it vs down on old 1.6.. the lower cover is in the way the way you have it..

Just put the intake on first and torque it down, then the turbo on second.

Just a thought.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 06, 2011, 06:49:23 pm
Does someone on the forums have a picture of the front of their TD engine after all the coolant hoses are on. I cant exactly remember how they go and my pictures arnt that great from that angle.

This is what i need with ALL hoses attached
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/IMG_20110906_175951.jpg)
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 07, 2011, 01:31:23 am
Thanks for all the replies guys!  :P But i figured it out

Only need hose clamps Alt. Belt and i need to make my down pipe Then she'll be ready to start putting in the car.

The down pipe will probably take forever!

Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 09, 2011, 10:06:50 am
Started making my down pipe yesterday and got the engine in the car late last night. Anyways heres some pics. tell me what ya think, or if you see anything i did wrong, feel free to correct me please
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/IMG_20110907_135702.jpg)

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/IMG_20110907_135632.jpg)

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/IMG_20110907_135649.jpg)

(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/IMG_20110909_092033.jpg)
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on September 09, 2011, 10:13:47 am
Nice! What diameter is your down pipe and is it stainless?
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 09, 2011, 10:16:41 am
Nice! What diameter is your down pipe and is it stainless?

Its a 2.5" and its not stainless i wish it was! But im on a budget here lol Plus i dont have a TIG.

I hope it fits good till the tunnel then im taking it to a muffler shop. Cause i dont have a lift
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on September 09, 2011, 01:54:22 pm
I've heard of someone using a down pipe from a Mercedes W123 turbodiesel (plenty full in junkyards) that is stainless and has a flex section built in and welded it up to the toilet bowl. It is at least 2.25" o.d. and may be 2.5" o.d. I have one and will measure it and report back and shoot a pic of it.

Nice! What diameter is your down pipe and is it stainless?

Its a 2.5" and its not stainless i wish it was! But im on a budget here lol Plus i dont have a TIG.

I hope it fits good till the tunnel then im taking it to a muffler shop. Cause i dont have a lift
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 09, 2011, 09:00:26 pm
I've heard of someone using a down pipe from a Mercedes W123 turbodiesel (plenty full in junkyards) that is stainless and has a flex section built in and welded it up to the toilet bowl. It is at least 2.25" o.d. and may be 2.5" o.d. I have one and will measure it and report back and shoot a pic of it.


Ive never heard of that but i would like to see a pic if you got some!
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 11, 2011, 10:34:25 am
Does anyone know which wire is hot coming from the key cylinder? I need it to be hot when i turn the key to ON position.  I need them for my gauges.
I thought i might check here before checking later tonight.
Thanks
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 11, 2011, 09:26:06 pm
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/IMG_20110909_193616.jpg)
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/IMG_20110909_193650.jpg)
(http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/dankcorey22/IMG_20110909_193629.jpg)
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: CRSMP5 on September 11, 2011, 11:12:48 pm
shift linkage and down pipe seem to have issue in the one pic..
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 11, 2011, 11:58:12 pm
shift linkage and down pipe seem to have issue in the one pic..

I think it was just the way i took the picture but the DP is far from the linkage.

Does anyone know of how to get the CV axle into place with out removing the ball joint and tie rod end? Just asking. Im going to do that tomorrow, They were in the way when i was placing the engine so i let them both fall
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on September 12, 2011, 02:46:26 pm
Here's pic of the Mercedes downpipe. It is 60 mm o.d with a flex section. I think for someone who can fab and weld, it could be adapted to go direct to the turbo flange and elimiate the toilet bowl altogether.  
   .
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/Photo_091211_001.jpg) .

Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 12, 2011, 11:45:57 pm
Here's pic of the Mercedes downpipe. It is 60 mm o.d with a flex section. I think for someone who can fab and weld, it could be adapted to go direct to the turbo flange and elimiate the toilet bowl altogether.  
   .
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/Photo_091211_001.jpg) .



Somebody could definetly get that thing to work. Thanks for the pic man!
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 12, 2011, 11:58:20 pm
UPDATE ON PROJECT: Well i skipped out on school today  :-X to hopefully get the car running and driving around... But when i hooked a little mr. gasket pump on to purge the lines and get fuel to the injectors, i noticed the damn pump start leaking around the pumps distributor head... I didnt take any of the pump apart when i was in the rebuild process. I was wondering if the mr. gasket pump caused the leak there? The leak is like 1 drop per second so its pretty fast... also i was wondering if i had to take the whole pump back off to replace that seal?

Thanks guys ill have a couple more pics up tomorrow. And a video when i get the thing running.

And the good news i got 20 PSI of oil pressure when im turning it over with the starter  :D
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on September 13, 2011, 07:53:48 am
Does anyone know which wire is hot coming from the key cylinder? I need it to be hot when i turn the key to ON position.  I need them for my gauges.
I thought i might check here before checking later tonight.
Thanks

The wire to the IP shut off solenoid is hot when you turn the key on, as well as one of the wires to the glow plug relay pin (30 ?).

I replaced the distributor head o-ring with the IP in the engine, which is not recommended. Better take it out and have it sitting up on ends. While you have it out, may as well replace the other o-rings and seals.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 13, 2011, 09:54:14 am
Does anyone know which wire is hot coming from the key cylinder? I need it to be hot when i turn the key to ON position.  I need them for my gauges.
I thought i might check here before checking later tonight.
Thanks

The wire to the IP shut off solenoid is hot when you turn the key on, as well as one of the wires to the glow plug relay pin (30 ?).

I replaced the distributor head o-ring with the IP in the engine, which is not recommended. Better take it out and have it sitting up on ends. While you have it out, may as well replace the other o-rings and seals.

Thats what i did i ran a wire off the shut off solenoid to a relay to power my gauges up.

I think i will try to replace it in the car and if stuff starts to fall out ill just take the pump out, not really a big deal. on my tdi i had my pump explode and i had to take the head off to determine what came apart, didnt look all that bad in the pump by means of replacing that seal.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: nathan_b on September 13, 2011, 11:15:03 am
ive done lots of head seals in the car. In fact, I've never done  it out of the car..
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on September 14, 2011, 03:23:30 pm
ive done lots of head seals in the car. In fact, I've never done  it out of the car..

the first i attempted, was in car..

needless to say, i snapped the pump plunger (dont ask) and the advance cage fell apart on me..

took the pump off the car to completely rebuild it at that point..
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 14, 2011, 03:32:39 pm
So im guessing this is a common issue? Im going to try it in the car first and see how that goes... wish me luck ive got the seals on order should be at my house tomorrow.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: vanbcguy on September 14, 2011, 04:27:50 pm
There's a howto on here somewhere, but the basic problem is that there is a spacer disc inside the pump that relies on the pressure from the pump plunger to keep it in place.  When you separate the pump head from the pump body, that disc falls out of place.  When you then tighten the pump head back up, it snaps the 'foot' off the pump head and you're now looking at a substantial rebuild.

There IS a way to do it on the engine, and it can be done without wrecking anything but you need to be careful and make sure you follow the instructions.  I think you need a long bolt to install in to the timing plug hole to keep pressure on the plunger, but I can't be certain (as I've never done it).
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on September 14, 2011, 06:10:11 pm
Here's the thread
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=19969.0
when I wrote about how I did mine.

Libbybapa said I was lucky I didn't botch the pump but I feel that I had pressure on the disc at all times by having the head out just enough to expose the o-ring and not any further (I am not 100% sure about that so take it for what it's worth). He posted a pic of a bolt with a spring to maintain tension on the disc but I'm not sure if that pic is still available since he deleted all his postings. May not be a bad idea and do some research and make that spring loaded bolt to be sure nothing goes wrong.

Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on September 14, 2011, 06:29:20 pm
Here's the thread
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=19969.0
when I wrote about how I did mine.

Libbybapa said I was lucky I didn't botch the pump but I feel that I had pressure on the disc at all times by having the head out just enough to expose the o-ring and not any further (I am not 100% sure about that so take it for what it's worth). He posted a pic of a bolt with a spring to maintain tension on the disc but I'm not sure if that pic is still available since he deleted all his postings. May not be a bad idea and do some research and make that spring loaded bolt to be sure nothing goes wrong.



you got lucky..

there is NOTHING that holds tension on the plunger once you start loosening it.. that disk can fall out whenever it feels like.. must have been some diesel left in the pump holding the disk there..

only way to keep the disk in there for sure, is with the bolt/spring
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on September 14, 2011, 08:01:03 pm
This is the disc (shim) that we're talking about.

(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/VEpumpshim.jpg)

Isn't the disc loaded (and kept in place) by this spring even if the distributor  head is moved outward a little to expose the o-ring?

(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/VEpumpspring.jpg)

you got lucky..

there is NOTHING that holds tension on the plunger once you start loosening it.. that disk can fall out whenever it feels like.. must have been some diesel left in the pump holding the disk there..

only way to keep the disk in there for sure, is with the bolt/spring
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 14, 2011, 11:12:05 pm
Thanks for the pictures... So yall dont think if i get a longer bolt to fit in the middle timing hole it wont work or will it?

Im just going to add if i hear something in the pump fall, Im just going to take it out...  :-[
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Powered by Spearco on September 15, 2011, 10:53:20 am
As for your question on removing or replacing the CV's. The Pass. side, turn the wheel all the way to the right. Undo the trany side CV bolts and the outer hub nut, plunge the inner CV till it can pss around the CV flange and lift it up over the flange and pull it out of hub. Same thing on drivers side, except turn the wheel to the left, undo the shift linkage rods as to make clearance to lift it over the CV flange.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: damac on September 15, 2011, 04:47:18 pm
Thanks for the pictures... So yall dont think if i get a longer bolt to fit in the middle timing hole it wont work or will it?

Im just going to add if i hear something in the pump fall, Im just going to take it out...  :-[

I did it once but found it annoying.  Cleaning everything off, taping the head and lubing it so the stretched oring could be seated.  Then use a mirror tool to make sure the oring seats straight without turning or it will pinch.

If it were me I honestly would take the pump out, get a reseal kit for $20 on ebay and do an external type reseal job if you don't want to break down the pump all the way.  Its pretty easy.

But what I did was take out 2 of the distribution bolt heads and then you have to get a longer bolt from the timing hole so it will touch.  Then what you are doing is playing a slow and calculated game of turning each screw a couple turns at a time equally so everything moves in sync and you keep the pressure on the internals.  You will feel when it touches, no need to go crazy tight.  On install you will do the reverse.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 15, 2011, 11:02:29 pm
People has me debating on taking the dang pump out! but i really want to get this thing going!

If i take the pump out i can fix the cold start lever, the lever gets stuck on a bolt that holds the IP mounting bracket to the block. I replaced the regular bold with an allen bolt and it sticks out just a bit to far and the lever gets hung.

Does anybody use that advance lever much anyways?! Before i rebuilt the engine i couldnt tell a difference with it pulled out or pushed in...
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Powered by Spearco on September 15, 2011, 11:21:54 pm
^^^ Yes. I use the CS all the time.

Just take the pump out, put it in a vice with the distributor facing up and unbolt it. I use Vaseline to hold all the springs and parts together when reassembling.

That way you can time it the way you want it and set the belt tension correct.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 15, 2011, 11:27:29 pm
Okay going to take the pump out then! Im dreading doing that haha!

You set the belt tension to an inch play? if so i got it right!
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: damac on September 16, 2011, 12:22:52 am
When you say the cold start isn't tracking or hitting, do you have the bushings on each side of the cylinder holding the cable?  I didn't know these existed on some of my earlier used pumps until I came across a thread on a forum.  Ordered them for less than $10 and now the cable tracks correctly and is easy to set!

And with that pump being taken apart, I learned this the hard way once.   PUT IT IN A VICE SO YOU CAN'T KNOCK IT OVER!!

Because once you take that distribution head off, nothing holds the cam roller thing to the rollers and if you tipped it sideways they can all spill out!  Not sure but some guy on ebay told me not to change the order of those parts.

Its up to you how far you go into the reseal job.  You can do the turbo top later if need be.  There is an oring inside the throttle lever that goes through the top bushing as well.  You can do the cold start cover and opposite side.  There is also one in the fuel screw.

Anyway when I got my jetta home it had been sitting for a while.  It didn't leak until about a week later and sprung at the distribution head.  I did it, then shortly after it was the cold start cover.  Then the throttle shaft.   So on my recent pump on my car I broke the whole damn thing down and cleaned it all and installed all new seals/washers to get it over with.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: ORCoaster on September 16, 2011, 12:30:40 am
Take the pump off the car, yep, off the car.  Set it up in a vise so it is standing up on it's nose or you will be loading the cam rollers and all those parts that have to line up ever so neatly with Vaseline to get them to stick in place against the force of gravity. 

The first pump I rebuilt I didn't know squat about all that stuff and how it was aligned.  I popped off the four bolts on the head and all the guts spilled out on the workbench.  Rollers going everywhere and yes I broke the pump shaft putting it all back together again because the little shim wouldn't stay in place without the vaseline.  So much learned after the fact.  But now I would say do the whole rebuild thing off the car and you won't be wasting your time catching up with all the other seals that will, yes will be leaking later.

 
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 16, 2011, 10:06:44 am
On the CS lever their are bushings holding the bracket for the cable... The actually lever on the pump is hitting the IP mounting bracket bolt. Im going to have to use a regular bolt instead of the allen bolt.

So, on this pump if i set it up right in the vice the rollers shouldn't fall out should they? what is the easiest seals and orings to replace on these pumps? I dont want to take the governer apart i know that is a pain in the ass to get back together.

Thanks for all the advice guys going to start on it after i get out of class today! ill post pics later. Video if i get it running
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on September 16, 2011, 10:24:36 am
If you position the IP with the distributor head pointing down and loosen the 4 bolts just enough to expose the o-ring. Wouldn't gravity keep that shim disc in place and undisturbed? Why take the head off completely and risk getting debri inside? If you use a viton o-ring, stretching it over the head is not an issue.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: JessaBug on September 16, 2011, 11:46:14 am
Does anybody use that advance lever much anyways?! Before i rebuilt the engine i couldnt tell a difference with it pulled out or pushed in...

Even in NC, you'll want that to work. We use it almost all the time on a cold start, even in the summer months. But it is much, much easier to start in the winter using the CS cable, even here in NC and even after our rebuild. Glad you're sorting out. You should notice a difference if its working correctly.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: ORCoaster on September 16, 2011, 11:46:58 am
Yeah you could just pull it off that way but it is risky.  I wouldn't see a problem doing that as there are no other seals other than the front one that you normally have to replace and that can be done from the front.  Look that trick up on here as well.  The O ring on the top of the governor might be OK now and could be let go if not leaking.  But sometime down the road it will so keep the kit handy.  

The ones on the side are easy fixes, and since you are working on the cold start lever do that one.  By the way I use my CSL all the time.  I pull it out just before I hit the key to turn the car off as it is easy to do then with the engine running.  Not so when it is not.  
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: mtrans on September 16, 2011, 03:01:16 pm
Roller thing is hard thing.Book say you can`t change placeses even.
I read that if you put M8 x 1 long bolt against same surface to hold plunger it can be done,but I like to put off IP.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on September 16, 2011, 04:21:03 pm
Roller thing is hard thing.Book say you can`t change placeses even.
I read that if you put M8 x 1 long bolt against same surface to hold plunger it can be done,but I like to put off IP.

good thing my old pump never read the book, because the rollers in it, were out of a TD pump. and it was a n/a pump body with a TD head.

lol..
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: ORCoaster on September 16, 2011, 11:32:43 pm
My IP didn't read that Bentley any better.  When the guts spilled out of it there was no way I was going to find mated parts.  Pump doesn't seem to be any worse for the repair, car gets 49-50 mpg so I don't think I would follow that Bentley logic to close.  But then that is just me.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 17, 2011, 02:14:18 pm
Alright now ive just resealed the head, advance spring, advance leaver and pump shaft. Im not putting the pump in the car and getting ready to time it. Pump moves free but still kind of squicks when i spin it, but i think it did that before.

One question after i start it and warm it up to running temp. Does people retorque the head when its warm or let it cool back down first?

And what do you torque it to? I've got 12 mm bolts obviously

ive almost got this  :D cant wait!
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: mtrans on September 17, 2011, 02:19:38 pm
My IP didn't read that Bentley any better.

My also didn`t.As usual I find that AFTER my first rebuild.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on September 17, 2011, 02:23:37 pm
My IP didn't read that Bentley any better.  When the guts spilled out of it there was no way I was going to find mated parts.  Pump doesn't seem to be any worse for the repair, car gets 49-50 mpg so I don't think I would follow that Bentley logic to close.  But then that is just me.

What speed do you drive at to get 49-50 mpg. Your fuelly says 46.1 mpg is that wrong?
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 17, 2011, 06:21:51 pm
Got everything back together but not trying to get it started... no luck I have fuel up to the pump by a Mr. Gasket lift pump. I have 10.5 volts at the fuel cut off and can hear it click. I just don't have fuel at the lines yet. Idk what else to try.. ive been trying for 2 hours.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on September 17, 2011, 06:33:27 pm
Have you cracked the injector nuts and getting fuel out of there?
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 17, 2011, 07:01:14 pm
Have you cracked the injector nuts and getting fuel out of there?

Yeah i have at the pump and the injectors. I dont have fuel at either  :(
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Mark(The Miser)UK on September 17, 2011, 07:51:05 pm
Got everything back together but not trying to get it started... no luck I have fuel up to the pump by a Mr. Gasket lift pump. I have 10.5 volts at the fuel cut off and can hear it click. I just don't have fuel at the lines yet. Idk what else to try.. ive been trying for 2 hours.
Do you get fuel out of the out banjo?
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 17, 2011, 09:11:08 pm
Got everything back together but not trying to get it started... no luck I have fuel up to the pump by a Mr. Gasket lift pump. I have 10.5 volts at the fuel cut off and can hear it click. I just don't have fuel at the lines yet. Idk what else to try.. ive been trying for 2 hours.
Do you get fuel out of the out banjo?

Yes the banjo bolt on the top of the fuel filter housing.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on September 17, 2011, 09:52:45 pm
Put a Mityvac on the IP return and suck fuel out till no air, then crack an injector nut on one injector and crank till it starts. If you have it timed correctly and the glow plugs are working and battery /starter is good and you have fuel going to the injectors and the compression is good it should start.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 18, 2011, 12:40:55 am
But wouldn't my lift pump take place of the mightyvac? Instead of pulling a vacuum its just putting pressure on the pump. Ill try the mightyvac tomorrow.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 18, 2011, 08:22:19 am
is their any seals inside the pump that can go bad also? To make the fuel not make it to the plungers?
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on September 18, 2011, 09:48:03 am
But wouldn't my lift pump take place of the mightyvac? Instead of pulling a vacuum its just putting pressure on the pump. Ill try the mightyvac tomorrow.

Yes it would as long as you cracked the line at the IP return to bleed out air. Forgot you put in an elec pump. Did you remove the distributor head off the IP or just enough to expose the o-ring. If just enough to expose the o-ring, nothing internal should have been disturbed.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 18, 2011, 05:35:10 pm
But wouldn't my lift pump take place of the mightyvac? Instead of pulling a vacuum its just putting pressure on the pump. Ill try the mightyvac tomorrow.

Yes it would as long as you cracked the line at the IP return to bleed out air. Forgot you put in an elec pump. Did you remove the distributor head off the IP or just enough to expose the o-ring. If just enough to expose the o-ring, nothing internal should have been disturbed.

I did remove the pump head all the way. But I put everything back in the exact place
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 18, 2011, 06:05:12 pm
I feel like burning this car up right now!!!! Im still not getting fuel to the injectors! With my lift pump I know there is fuel going to the pump now because there is fuel coming out of the return line without ANY bubbles! I suspect the pump is bad... thinking about another one. Ughhh
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on September 18, 2011, 06:53:11 pm
I know how you feel. Maybe you have an air leak from seals you replaced. Plug the IP return and it should hold vac with Mityvac on the IP inlet. If it does not hold vac u have a leak. Find and fix it..
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: damac on September 18, 2011, 08:36:52 pm
Did you pop your top off when you resealed the head to make sure you lined the tabs all up, and then turn it over with the pulley attached to make sure the tabs were lined up correctly?  You can assemble things in wierd ways that can cause things to break at that last moment while tightning down that head.   With the top off it makes it easy to make sure things are lined up and you can hold things in place with your other hand, etc.


With that being said when I had my pump off I dumped as much fuel as I could in before putting the top on, but also found that even after using the vacuum trick I easily would have drained down my battery without a charger hooked up the whole time.  Pedal down the whole time and doing cranks without the glowplugs for 15 seconds at a time, and allowing it to cool down a few minutes inbetween.  You want that healthy starter to spin over fast.

It still took me a couple hours to reprime my pump last time.  It was very slow going until I got some slight seepage at a couple injectors and nothing was coming out of the last 2.  I kept alternating with one line cracked, then not, then cracking another and was still finding some air escaping when I recracked a line.  It was annoying but I kept at it and alternated around until finally that last one started seeping.  Car still ran like crap in the beginning and chugged and the cold start lever helped for whatever reason.  Finally was able to help it to life with some extra idle, let it sit a bit and took it for a good fast drive and all has been well now for weeks :)

Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Mark(The Miser)UK on September 18, 2011, 08:37:58 pm
If you have fuel coming out of the banjo then the pump is already primed, and you don't need Mityvac or anything else.
Unscrew timing screw and see if hand cranking, or short starter cranking, gives you a gusher.
If not you have solenoid problems.
You may get fuel due to the fuel pump you have attached.  
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on September 18, 2011, 09:28:05 pm
Did you pop your top off when you resealed the head to make sure you lined the tabs all up, and then turn it over with the pulley attached to make sure the tabs were lined up correctly?  You can assemble things in wierd ways that can cause things to break at that last moment while tightning down that head.   With the top off it makes it easy to make sure things are lined up and you can hold things in place with your other hand, etc.


With that being said when I had my pump off I dumped as much fuel as I could in before putting the top on, but also found that even after using the vacuum trick I easily would have drained down my battery without a charger hooked up the whole time.  Pedal down the whole time and doing cranks without the glowplugs for 15 seconds at a time, and allowing it to cool down a few minutes inbetween.  You want that healthy starter to spin over fast.

It still took me a couple hours to reprime my pump last time.  It was very slow going until I got some slight seepage at a couple injectors and nothing was coming out of the last 2.  I kept alternating with one line cracked, then not, then cracking another and was still finding some air escaping when I recracked a line.  It was annoying but I kept at it and alternated around until finally that last one started seeping.  Car still ran like crap in the beginning and chugged and the cold start lever helped for whatever reason.  Finally was able to help it to life with some extra idle, let it sit a bit and took it for a good fast drive and all has been well now for weeks :)



Not sure why it took couple of hours to prime your IP. When I replaced both o-rings on the advance piston covers and also replaced the main seal and timed the IP, it took less than a minute to get it primed and started. I didn't even use a Mityvac. All I did was leave injector nut #1 cracked open half a turn and cranked with glow plugs on for 15 seconds and it fired. I tightened the injector nut and it idled nice and smooth as I watch the air bubbles bleed itself out on the return line.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: damac on September 19, 2011, 12:34:02 am
Did you pop your top off when you resealed the head to make sure you lined the tabs all up, and then turn it over with the pulley attached to make sure the tabs were lined up correctly?  You can assemble things in wierd ways that can cause things to break at that last moment while tightning down that head.   With the top off it makes it easy to make sure things are lined up and you can hold things in place with your other hand, etc.


With that being said when I had my pump off I dumped as much fuel as I could in before putting the top on, but also found that even after using the vacuum trick I easily would have drained down my battery without a charger hooked up the whole time.  Pedal down the whole time and doing cranks without the glowplugs for 15 seconds at a time, and allowing it to cool down a few minutes inbetween.  You want that healthy starter to spin over fast.

It still took me a couple hours to reprime my pump last time.  It was very slow going until I got some slight seepage at a couple injectors and nothing was coming out of the last 2.  I kept alternating with one line cracked, then not, then cracking another and was still finding some air escaping when I recracked a line.  It was annoying but I kept at it and alternated around until finally that last one started seeping.  Car still ran like crap in the beginning and chugged and the cold start lever helped for whatever reason.  Finally was able to help it to life with some extra idle, let it sit a bit and took it for a good fast drive and all has been well now for weeks :)



Not sure why it took couple of hours to prime your IP. When I replaced both o-rings on the advance piston covers and also replaced the main seal and timed the IP, it took less than a minute to get it primed and started. I didn't even use a Mityvac. All I did was leave injector nut #1 cracked open half a turn and cranked with glow plugs on for 15 seconds and it fired. I tightened the injector nut and it idled nice and smooth as I watch the air bubbles bleed itself out on the return line.

I should have been more specific in my advice.  I wait inbetween starter sessions so I don't burn anything out no matter what.  And I had a sears charger hooked up when my batteries were low initially.  It has  electrical controls and for some reason it wasn't charging right after the initial hookup and would read 100%  So I wasn't paying attention to the battery charge and turnover speed until it didn't want to do anything :)  So slow turnover rate definately hurt me that day, but I had to do my best to get the car on the road the next day.  I also think starting out with a completely dry pump that I resealed leaves a tad bit more air as I could see it after the initial start.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: ORCoaster on September 19, 2011, 10:39:51 pm
I never try to start an engine I swap a pump out on or one I have rebuilt without pulling as much air out of the top of the banjo bolt as I can get.  Even then it might take three cycles of the starter cranking on it to get me fuel to the top of the injectors.  Weepy injectors means they are good to go.  Tighten em up, hit the glows and crank again.  Most of the time it is success at first or second crank. 

I can't even think how long a dry pump would take to cycle diesel to the injectors.

Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 20, 2011, 12:45:31 am
I have no leaks from the seals I replaced when I turn the lift pump on and pop the return line off, it just poors fuel with no air bubbles whatsoever.
The stop solenoid is good because I tried the one off my tdi also and no fuel to the injectors not even a drop.
Im going to buy a pump then work on my td pump while I have the pump im going to by on their.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Mark(The Miser)UK on September 20, 2011, 05:51:55 am
If you have fuel coming out of the banjo then the pump is already primed, and you don't need Mityvac or anything else.
Unscrew timing screw and see if hand cranking, or short starter cranking, gives you a gusher.
If not you have solenoid problems.
You may get fuel due to the fuel pump you have attached.  

Try the above, and also try Reg's technique of turning in the max fuel screw say a turn.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 20, 2011, 10:13:23 am
If you have fuel coming out of the banjo then the pump is already primed, and you don't need Mityvac or anything else.
Unscrew timing screw and see if hand cranking, or short starter cranking, gives you a gusher.
If not you have solenoid problems.
You may get fuel due to the fuel pump you have attached.  

Try the above, and also try Reg's technique of turning in the max fuel screw say a turn.

Is it the same is i took the solenoid off and hand turned it? but i did and fuel came out. but ill try the timing screw when i have time.

My max fuel screw is all the way in till it starts to run away now.. Ill give one turn back.  Do you think something in the area of the max fuel screw gets stuck?
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 20, 2011, 10:21:36 am
i got this pump. http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=29981.0
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on September 20, 2011, 10:49:59 am
i got this pump. http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=29981.0

Do you know the seller personally? Sounds like too good of a deal. I asked if you ran your pump before you rebuilt your engine and do not recall seeing an answer. I guess the answer is no?
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Mark(The Miser)UK on September 20, 2011, 11:42:49 am
If you have fuel coming out of the banjo then the pump is already primed, and you don't need Mityvac or anything else.
Unscrew timing screw and see if hand cranking, or short starter cranking, gives you a gusher.
If not you have solenoid problems.
You may get fuel due to the fuel pump you have attached.  

Try the above, and also try Reg's technique of turning in the max fuel screw say a turn.

Is it the same is i took the solenoid off and hand turned it? but i did and fuel came out. but ill try the timing screw when i have time.  My max fuel screw is all the way in till it starts to run away now.. Ill give one turn back.  Do you think something in the area of the max fuel screw gets stuck?

Fuel at the solenoid is something but not far enough into pump.

A simple but methodical list to follow:

Checks for fuel go:

Tank, check for blocked fuel filler cap
Fuel line to fuel filter, possible air leaks
Transparent line to pump, possible air leaks
Pump main chamber fuel; filling is primed when fuel returns to tank,
Fuel stop solenoid; be sure operating correctly ie opening, and not merely 'clunking'
 Fuel into piston chamber; undo timing bolt
Fuel into high pressure lines, slacken nut on injector
Fuel into injectors; leak off lines can give 'depriming for Dolfs , but not Quantums it would appear 8)
Fuel out in spray ; poor spray pattern or mismatched pressures, drips

RE max fuel screw something may be changed from being disturbed
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 21, 2011, 04:17:33 pm
 :( I tried everything you guys have told me with my TD Pump, No Luck. No fuel at injectors. No fuel coming out the timing hole.
I got the N/A pump today in the mail. Im going to try that this evening i hope to god it works! If not ill be sending my TD pump to Giles in CA.
Todays my day off so i got all day to fool with it. Well until it starts  raining again which it has been almost all day.

Well Thanks guys for trying to help me! Now i just want to put some C4 under the oil pan LOL
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on September 21, 2011, 04:50:49 pm
:( I tried everything you guys have told me with my TD Pump, No Luck. No fuel at injectors. No fuel coming out the timing hole.
I got the N/A pump today in the mail. Im going to try that this evening i hope to god it works! If not ill be sending my TD pump to Giles in CA.
Todays my day off so i got all day to fool with it. Well until it starts  raining again which it has been almost all day.

Well Thanks guys for trying to help me! Now i just want to put some C4 under the oil pan LOL

are you sure the fuel collar is connected to the bottom of the fulcrum plate still? it comes disconnected very easily, and it can cause either a no run condition, or sometimes even a runaway condition..
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 21, 2011, 05:15:22 pm
Hey R.O.R can you specify? I don't know exactly what you mean?
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on September 21, 2011, 05:56:58 pm
the fuel collar is the circular thing that sits around the plunger. its the actual injection quantity adjuster.. the governor directly controls the fuel collar, and if its not seated properly, then your pump will never build enough pressure to deliver fuel.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 21, 2011, 06:53:22 pm
the fuel collar is the circular thing that sits around the plunger. its the actual injection quantity adjuster.. the governor directly controls the fuel collar, and if its not seated properly, then your pump will never build enough pressure to deliver fuel.

Oh yeah i know what your talking about now. Im pretty sure the pump was put back together right. But anyways im going to send it to DFIS in portland ive heard great things about them with TDI pumps. They are fairly cheap also.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Mark(The Miser)UK on September 21, 2011, 08:48:37 pm
the fuel collar is the circular thing that sits around the plunger. its the actual injection quantity adjuster.. the governor directly controls the fuel collar, and if its not seated properly, then your pump will never build enough pressure to deliver fuel.

Oh yeah i know what your talking about now. Im pretty sure the pump was put back together right. But anyways im going to send it to DFIS in portland ive heard great things about them with TDI pumps. They are fairly cheap also.
Before you take such drastic action, are you sure that the work you've done at the solenoid led to it opening correctly? If the plunger was sticking you would get the symptoms you have now.

The spill sleeve would do this too, as well as a physically snapped piston. This can be checked by removing timing screw, and inserting either a gauge or a nail, and watching it move 2mm with hand cranking engine
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: rabbitman on September 21, 2011, 10:18:11 pm
The spill sleave can also be installed backwards, not sure what it would cause though.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 21, 2011, 11:42:14 pm
the fuel collar is the circular thing that sits around the plunger. its the actual injection quantity adjuster.. the governor directly controls the fuel collar, and if its not seated properly, then your pump will never build enough pressure to deliver fuel.

Oh yeah i know what your talking about now. Im pretty sure the pump was put back together right. But anyways im going to send it to DFIS in portland ive heard great things about them with TDI pumps. They are fairly cheap also.
Before you take such drastic action, are you sure that the work you've done at the solenoid led to it opening correctly? If the plunger was sticking you would get the symptoms you have now.

The spill sleeve would do this too, as well as a physically snapped piston. This can be checked by removing timing screw, and inserting either a gauge or a nail, and watching it move 2mm with hand cranking engine

How would you know that the solenoid is sticking? And how would i solve that? I have taken the solenoid out and charged it. Engages like it supposed to.

Your saying if the piston is physically snapped it wouldnt move any?  Mine moves alot from the last time i timed the pump.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Mark(The Miser)UK on September 22, 2011, 08:50:43 am
the fuel collar is the circular thing that sits around the plunger. its the actual injection quantity adjuster.. the governor directly controls the fuel collar, and if its not seated properly, then your pump will never build enough pressure to deliver fuel.

Oh yeah i know what your talking about now. Im pretty sure the pump was put back together right. But anyways im going to send it to DFIS in portland ive heard great things about them with TDI pumps. They are fairly cheap also.
Before you take such drastic action, are you sure that the work you've done at the solenoid led to it opening correctly? If the plunger was sticking you would get the symptoms you have now.

The spill sleeve would do this too, as well as a physically snapped piston. This can be checked by removing timing screw, and inserting either a gauge or a nail, and watching it move 2mm with hand cranking engine

How would you know that the solenoid is sticking? And how would i solve that? I have taken the solenoid out and charged it. Engages like it supposed to.

Your saying if the piston is physically snapped it wouldnt move any?  Mine moves alot from the last time i timed the pump.
I'm not an expert in snapped pistons unfortunately [fortunately actually ;D]

However, with the solenoid, if you remove it and then replace it without it's plunger [peer inside to see that the hole is clear] Then it will definitely allow flow from it into the piston chamber.
When it bursts into life however, stopping will require dropping into gear or disconnecting fuel... ;D
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 22, 2011, 02:11:08 pm
Oooo ive never thought about the solenoid thing. Good point Im going to try that now:)
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on September 22, 2011, 03:50:17 pm
the fuel collar is the circular thing that sits around the plunger. its the actual injection quantity adjuster.. the governor directly controls the fuel collar, and if its not seated properly, then your pump will never build enough pressure to deliver fuel.

Is fuel collar a Bosch name or your own name? I can't seem to find it. Can you find and point out the part in this thread http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6694 with a lot of photos of the pump internals?

Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: ORCoaster on September 22, 2011, 03:57:58 pm
See in picture #2 that doughnut shaped thing just to the left of the head?  The one that bolts on with the four bolts?  That is it.  Or search for -Now let's go on to the distributor piston:
in the thread and drop down to the second picture under that sentence and it is shown there in it's proper position on the pump shaft.

You have to tear your pump apart to see it.  But I think I have viewed it through the top on a sharp angle to the left with a strong light.  So you could pop the top on the car to see if A. pump shaft is broken and B. if collar is on there and moving correctly.  Just wiggle the gover assembly.

Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 22, 2011, 04:21:04 pm
Thats really good info! Now in my bookmark
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: ORCoaster on September 22, 2011, 06:03:29 pm
Probably the text book picture book for pump rebuilds.  I have used it on several occassions and will do so again this weekend.  Glad he did it.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 22, 2011, 09:17:17 pm
Im just thinking about that other NA pump i bought or in general how would i know if the pump is 180 degrees off?
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: ORCoaster on September 22, 2011, 10:18:48 pm
In the pictorial you will find about half way through this line:

To align this part, the drive pin for the piston (marked in green) must be aligned with the key in the pump's shaft.

The pin he is talking about is on the cam plate.  Since the cam plate can be inserted two different ways if you don't align the pin to the key way on the front shaft where the pulley that is spun by the timing belt your install ends up 180 out.  I don't know how you can tell from the outside if the pump is rebuilt 180 out without seeing the pin position relative to the key way. 
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on September 23, 2011, 09:34:24 am
I think you're better off fixing your turbo pump (if that's what you have) rather than putting on the NA pump you just bought for obvious performance differences between the 2.

Here's a thread (with pics) of similar problems as you're having.

http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=26904.0

It's called the control sleeve in the pics, which better illustrate how fuel flows through the pump than the pump rebuild pictorial.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 23, 2011, 04:07:37 pm
In the pictorial you will find about half way through this line:

To align this part, the drive pin for the piston (marked in green) must be aligned with the key in the pump's shaft.

The pin he is talking about is on the cam plate.  Since the cam plate can be inserted two different ways if you don't align the pin to the key way on the front shaft where the pulley that is spun by the timing belt your install ends up 180 out.  I don't know how you can tell from the outside if the pump is rebuilt 180 out without seeing the pin position relative to the key way. 

That answered my question about the inside of the pump. Thanks but what about the outside of the pump. you know how the IP gear has 2 places to lock the pump down.. How do you know what hole is right?
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 23, 2011, 04:09:23 pm
I think you're better off fixing your turbo pump (if that's what you have) rather than putting on the NA pump you just bought for obvious performance differences between the 2.

Here's a thread (with pics) of similar problems as you're having.

http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=26904.0

It's called the control sleeve in the pics, which better illustrate how fuel flows through the pump than the pump rebuild pictorial.

I did send my turbo pump off yesterday to DFIS of portland. Heres their website http://www.dfispdx.com/
Ive heard really great things from them rebuilding TDI pumps.

Thanks for the thread of the similar problems
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 24, 2011, 02:10:56 am
Since im waiting for that pump. I done a compression test to eliminate other possible no start problems... But the problem is i am using a Harbor Fright compression tester which is probably 50-100 PSI off because the adapter that sticks in the injector hole leaks like an SOB!
What a Piece of ***.

Cyl. 1- 300PSI
Cyl. 2- 300
Cyl. 3- 300
Cyl. 4- 280

I know thats pretty low but i figured all rebuilds start out pretty low since the rings are not seated yet. Also the tester plays a part in the low test scores also
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: damac on September 24, 2011, 04:46:52 am
In the pictorial you will find about half way through this line:

To align this part, the drive pin for the piston (marked in green) must be aligned with the key in the pump's shaft.

The pin he is talking about is on the cam plate.  Since the cam plate can be inserted two different ways if you don't align the pin to the key way on the front shaft where the pulley that is spun by the timing belt your install ends up 180 out.  I don't know how you can tell from the outside if the pump is rebuilt 180 out without seeing the pin position relative to the key way. 

That answered my question about the inside of the pump. Thanks but what about the outside of the pump. you know how the IP gear has 2 places to lock the pump down.. How do you know what hole is right?

If you get the internals right you line up the mark on the outside of the pulley at 12 oclock with the bracket mark and then you slide the ip lock tool in place and thats your starting point.


Also I got a harbor freight tester for 2 vehicles in a pinch and it worked for me.  Is it possible you have crud on the threads not allowing you to tighten things down properly?  I use antisieze on my injector threads and that can be hell to clean up.  I end up having to take a pick with the old heat shield in place and plug the hole, then go to town and vacuum the debris.    Also plug the hole with heat shields out and hit it with brake cleaner and soak up all the crap to get them down to bare material again.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on September 24, 2011, 10:30:58 am
Low numbers (up to a point) is not as important than even numbers. Did you use the copper washer in the HF kit? I believe you put the washer in first , then the adapter. When you stop cranking, the gauge needle should not drop, if it does, you have a leak somewhere.

Since im waiting for that pump. I done a compression test to eliminate other possible no start problems... But the problem is i am using a Harbor Fright compression tester which is probably 50-100 PSI off because the adapter that sticks in the injector hole leaks like an SOB!
What a Piece of ***.

Cyl. 1- 300PSI
Cyl. 2- 300
Cyl. 3- 300
Cyl. 4- 280

I know thats pretty low but i figured all rebuilds start out pretty low since the rings are not seated yet. Also the tester plays a part in the low test scores also


Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 24, 2011, 10:47:59 am
That answered my question about the pump damac thanks

I did use the copper washers with the kit but i can still hear leaks when i turn the engine over, but when i screw the fitting in the injector hole it kinda wobbles to that tells me its not perfectly true around the edges which creates the leak.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: ORCoaster on September 24, 2011, 11:38:50 am
damac noted:
If you get the internals right you line up the mark on the outside of the pulley at 12 oclock with the bracket mark and then you slide the ip lock tool in place and thats your starting point.

The operative words are at the beginning, IF YOU GET THE INTERNALS RIGHT.  I was thinking that if someone just handed you a pump off the shelf there would be no way to know if they flipped the cam over 180.  But as damac says just line up the mark on the pulley and the bracket and start there.  But what if that doesn't do the trick?  I have heard tales of people just loosening the belt, rotating the IP pulley 180 and making a mark on it and having success getting it to run that way.  Then the next time they tear the pump apart they make sure the cam is done right and go back to using the factory mark.

Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 24, 2011, 04:19:47 pm
I tried to do it 180 out with the NA pump also and nothing not even tried to fire... Im going to wait till i get my TD pump back!
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: ORCoaster on September 25, 2011, 10:11:39 pm
Corey,

I had the chance to run across town, all of 1.8 miles to check out the Harbor Freight store.

I think I have a solution to the poor performance of the gauge. 

Your statement on p. 14:

Since im waiting for that pump. I done a compression test to eliminate other possible no start problems... But the problem is i am using a Harbor Fright compression tester which is probably 50-100 PSI off because the adapter that sticks in the injector hole leaks like an SOB!
What a Piece of ***.


Well I picked up a kit for 30 bucks as I don't even think I can come close to that elsewhere.  It was shrink wrapped and had the U.S. General brand on it.  How strange that China chooses to market their product under such sneakery.  I bought the kit figuring if it was just total hooey as you stated I would run it back in a hurry.  Well it appears to be machined well enough, normally there are burrs all over some of that stuff.  In looking through the applications I noted that to test a VW you do not use the injector adapters at all.  There is one that goes in the glow plug spot.  If you have the kit it is the middle sized one in that row or five on the right side in the middle of the box.  It plugs directly to the gauge and is about the same size as a VW glow plug so you will get near the pounds of compression that you normally do since all the space is about the same.

So, try it again,  put your injectors back in their respective spots and pull the glows instead.  Then put the adapter in one at a time and send us the numbers from that run.  I think you will find no leaks in the setup.  I know that in the instructions they say to pull the injectors and the glow plugs.  So I am not sure how they intended you to get any reading on that 1000 lb gauge.  I would and am going to try this on my car next weekend so if you have terrible results let us know.  I may apply Teflon tape to the adapter if that is the case when I try it.

Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: Powered by Spearco on September 25, 2011, 11:37:16 pm
FYI.
Diesel fuel injection is the best diesel shop here in Portland, Or. Mark the owner and all the other front counter guys really know their stuff with TDI and IDI VW pumps. They do all the mods for most all the TDI guys around here. They know their stuff and the shop is spick-n-span clean, the caliberation machines are state of the art.

Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: JessaBug on September 26, 2011, 08:59:26 am
We bought the HF compression tester and used the injector method. Worked great for us with no leaks.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on September 26, 2011, 09:57:19 am
That's interesting, I thought the HF kit says to use the injector adapter to check compression on a VW's. #1 and 2 glow plugs would be a *** to do a compression test from. I am going to look at my HF instruction sheet again (if I still have it) and see what it says.

Corey,

I had the chance to run across town, all of 1.8 miles to check out the Harbor Freight store.

I think I have a solution to the poor performance of the gauge. 

Your statement on p. 14:

Since im waiting for that pump. I done a compression test to eliminate other possible no start problems... But the problem is i am using a Harbor Fright compression tester which is probably 50-100 PSI off because the adapter that sticks in the injector hole leaks like an SOB!
What a Piece of ***.


Well I picked up a kit for 30 bucks as I don't even think I can come close to that elsewhere.  It was shrink wrapped and had the U.S. General brand on it.  How strange that China chooses to market their product under such sneakery.  I bought the kit figuring if it was just total hooey as you stated I would run it back in a hurry.  Well it appears to be machined well enough, normally there are burrs all over some of that stuff.  In looking through the applications I noted that to test a VW you do not use the injector adapters at all.  There is one that goes in the glow plug spot.  If you have the kit it is the middle sized one in that row or five on the right side in the middle of the box.  It plugs directly to the gauge and is about the same size as a VW glow plug so you will get near the pounds of compression that you normally do since all the space is about the same.

So, try it again,  put your injectors back in their respective spots and pull the glows instead.  Then put the adapter in one at a time and send us the numbers from that run.  I think you will find no leaks in the setup.  I know that in the instructions they say to pull the injectors and the glow plugs.  So I am not sure how they intended you to get any reading on that 1000 lb gauge.  I would and am going to try this on my car next weekend so if you have terrible results let us know.  I may apply Teflon tape to the adapter if that is the case when I try it.


Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 26, 2011, 10:10:48 am
I agree with the glow plug adapters it would be a pain to get 1 & 2 but no doubt it would be better! On my TDI i use the glow plugs holes to measure compression and that gauge and adapters work great!

But its something about that BIG ADAPTER or the little small one that threads down into the big one. But i wrapped it with Teflon.

I have my NA pump off the car now, but if i still had it on the car i would try the GP holes. Im waiting on my pump from portland ;D I have not heard anything yet but im sure they will call me soon.

-Corey
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on September 26, 2011, 10:34:51 am
On a TDI the glow plugs are in a super easy to access location, not so on the IDI! Do the test again with the injector adapter and spray soapy water on the joints to find where it's leaking from.

I agree with the glow plug adapters it would be a pain to get 1 & 2 but no doubt it would be better! On my TDI i use the glow plugs holes to measure compression and that gauge and adapters work great!

But its something about that BIG ADAPTER or the little small one that threads down into the big one. But i wrapped it with Teflon.

I have my NA pump off the car now, but if i still had it on the car i would try the GP holes. Im waiting on my pump from portland ;D I have not heard anything yet but im sure they will call me soon.

-Corey
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 26, 2011, 11:24:53 am
I already know where its leaking from, Right above the threads on the adapter where the metal starts to get wider.

On a TDI the glow plugs are in a super easy to access location, not so on the IDI! Do the test again with the injector adapter and spray soapy water on the joints to find where it's leaking from.

I agree with the glow plug adapters it would be a pain to get 1 & 2 but no doubt it would be better! On my TDI i use the glow plugs holes to measure compression and that gauge and adapters work great!

But its something about that BIG ADAPTER or the little small one that threads down into the big one. But i wrapped it with Teflon.

I have my NA pump off the car now, but if i still had it on the car i would try the GP holes. Im waiting on my pump from portland ;D I have not heard anything yet but im sure they will call me soon.

-Corey
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: ORCoaster on September 26, 2011, 12:47:11 pm
I knew you had the pump off and sent away for a fix.  That is why I suggested going for the GP adapter and trying it again.  I agree getting in those glow plug areas with the pump on is a major pain.  Maybe something the authors of the instructions don't know.  But IF you already have the pump off the GP access is not a problem any more now is it?

How about some new numbers? 

Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: 81 vw pu on September 26, 2011, 01:27:41 pm
I knew you had the pump off and sent away for a fix.  That is why I suggested going for the GP adapter and trying it again.  I agree getting in those glow plug areas with the pump on is a major pain.  Maybe something the authors of the instructions don't know.  But IF you already have the pump off the GP access is not a problem any more now is it?

How about some new numbers? 


Please explain how you do a compression test with the pump off?
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on September 26, 2011, 02:10:23 pm
FYI.
Diesel fuel injection is the best diesel shop here in Portland, Or. Mark the owner and all the other front counter guys really know their stuff with TDI and IDI VW pumps. They do all the mods for most all the TDI guys around here. They know their stuff and the shop is spick-n-span clean, the caliberation machines are state of the art.



Josh, are we talking about DFI that was based in scappoose for a short time? do they still have a dyno?
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: ORCoaster on September 26, 2011, 02:59:56 pm
Brain dead again!  What the heck am I thinking?  Obviously not, should have had more coffee this morning I guess.  I suppose if he was real good at turning cam and crank he could do a leak down test.  But that might be kind of iffy.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on September 27, 2011, 10:48:33 am
I was wonder the same thing how am i going to do that with the pump off?! BTW i am Not trying to spin the cam and crank independently haha

Dale, everyone had those days man! i have them almost every day  :P
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on September 27, 2011, 11:06:57 am
I looked at my HF compression tester manual and it lists using both the injector hole and glow plug hole adapters. For 70's vintage VWs, it says to use the injector hole, for later years, it says to use the glow plug holes but the info provided was obviously wrong.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: ORCoaster on September 27, 2011, 11:58:41 am
I looked at the instructions again in the kit.  Poorly written at best.  While trying to interpret them I can see why we never really know what they are trying to tell us.  I see a picture that shows the injector adapter but the footnote says this may need to be removed.  I didn't try to screw in the suggested adapter for the glow plugs into the hole in the injector adapter.  Looked like the same threads for all of them.  Maybe not. 

You just can't rely on non english speaking instructions to make clear sense.

Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on October 06, 2011, 01:20:22 am
UPDATE: Diesel Fuel Injection Service sent my pump back to me today so should arrive here friday or sat. Cant wait to get that SOB in their
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on October 18, 2011, 12:49:12 am
I got the pump back friday and put it in sunday, also got it running sunday. Below is a video of one of the first starts.

I was reving it cause i didnt want it to idle much
Ill post a better video wed or thursday when i have time

http://www.youtube.com/user/dankcorey2424?feature=mhee#p/a/u/0/IOirdlP5cxw
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: JessaBug on October 18, 2011, 12:18:09 pm
Sounds awesome!
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on October 18, 2011, 01:03:19 pm
Sounds awesome!

Thanks!
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on October 22, 2011, 07:15:06 pm
Here is the other video i would like you all to see. I noticed that they are big air bubbles in the return line between each injector and fuel is not moving through there. Is that a problem i should worry about?
I done the first oil change today, 100 mile mark. i have 30PSI of oil pressure when hot at idle. Almost 70PSI when cold at idle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGqHEciGWSc&feature=channel_video_title

-Corey
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on October 23, 2011, 11:55:23 am
Here is the other video i would like you all to see. I noticed that they are big air bubbles in the return line between each injector and fuel is not moving through there. Is that a problem i should worry about?
I done the first oil change today, 100 mile mark. i have 30PSI of oil pressure when hot at idle. Almost 70PSI when cold at idle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGqHEciGWSc&feature=channel_video_title

-Corey

Don't worry too much about the bubbles in the injector return lines, which return unused excess fuel from the injectors back to the tank. It will take a longer time to bleed themselves out of the return lines (compared to bleeding air out of the IP). As long as you have no leaks at those lines and elsewhere you're golden.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on October 23, 2011, 01:43:01 pm
Well in good with everything else then, all I need now is my exhaust system ive been running it cut off right before the tunnel until I know everythings gonna work right
Title: High Idle switch
Post by: dankcorey22 on October 25, 2011, 12:19:01 am
has anyone ever though of or heard of a high idle switch for these cars, I was thinking of using a 12V solenoid or actuator then mount it where it it moves the throttle arm on the injection pump where the desired RPM is. When the flip of a switch.

Just thinking you know how we cant leave anything alone  ;)
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: vanbcguy on October 25, 2011, 01:04:56 pm
has anyone ever though of or heard of a high idle switch for these cars, I was thinking of using a 12V solenoid or actuator then mount it where it it moves the throttle arm on the injection pump where the desired RPM is. When the flip of a switch.

Just thinking you know how we cant leave anything alone  ;)

I think there was something like that for some of the earlier AC equipped cars but I'm not in any way sure.  You may be able to adapt something from a gasser for that purpose (LOTS of gassers had that type of device).

Or get a 109-style pump with the built-in fast idle connected to the cold start handle...
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on October 25, 2011, 07:56:44 pm
has anyone ever though of or heard of a high idle switch for these cars, I was thinking of using a 12V solenoid or actuator then mount it where it it moves the throttle arm on the injection pump where the desired RPM is. When the flip of a switch.

Just thinking you know how we cant leave anything alone  ;)

I think there was something like that for some of the earlier AC equipped cars but I'm not in any way sure.  You may be able to adapt something from a gasser for that purpose (LOTS of gassers had that type of device).

Or get a 109-style pump with the built-in fast idle connected to the cold start handle...

Im not really familiar with gassers but i might take a trip to the junk yard sometime and see what i can find! do you know what they are call or what the device is/does on the gassers?
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: vanbcguy on October 26, 2011, 01:39:13 pm
They're usually called something like an "idle compensator".  Many, many different vehicle manufacturers have used something like that (basically a device that "nudges" the throttle lever over a preset amount).  It'd have to be from something older - by the '90s most vehicles had the computer controlling idle speed with a more precise "hands on" method than just a preset nudge.  Another thing that was common on gassers was a device that would hold the throttle open a tad when you took your foot off the pedal, usually just for a second or two to allow the engine revs to reduce more smoothly.

Here's a "new" version of the idle compensator meant for a carburetor application:

(http://images.oreillyauto.com/parts/img/medium/edb/8059.jpg)

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/EDB0/8059.oap?ck=Search_N1046_EDB_-1_-1&mn=Edelbrock&mc=EDB&pt=N1046&ppt=C0261

Basically it's a device that extends slightly when fed 12V.  You'd need to figure out a way to mount it up or whatever.
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: wdkingery on October 26, 2011, 02:02:27 pm
is that the thing i snapped off my 1986 6.9l IDI!
didn't need that anyway

i use my cold start handle to keep RPM up anytime i need more idle.. (stop lights with headlights running, etc)
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on October 26, 2011, 04:48:00 pm
Hey thanks for the link! That piece is 124 bucks ouchh!
wdkingerg do you have your old broken one?
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: vanbcguy on October 27, 2011, 09:37:44 am
Yeah it isn't so much "what I would buy" as an example of the technology - there will be gobs of them at the wrecker's, and I can't see them charging more than $5 or so...
Title: UPDATE
Post by: dankcorey22 on November 22, 2011, 11:56:18 pm
My car is at the 1200 Mile mark, Car has been running pretty good but ive have got some complaints and questions.

Car makes around 100 PSI of oil pressure cold (outside 50 Degrees F) and then when engine is completely warm it makes around 23PSI of oil pressure All at idle. Is that to low of oil pressure at idle?

Also i have a really loud lifter (I think) ticking at idle when engine is warm. Doesnt do it when the engine is cold. But i have took the valve cover off and checked the valve clearance. All checks out okay. Im just worried about dropping a valve or messing something up. Ill post a video tomorrow or thanksgiving day.

My EGT's get up to about 1400 if i hold it WOT for 30 sec. Id say that is pretty good, i have a little bit of smoke and i boost to 19PSI. I think if i turn my fuel up alitttle bit more the EGT's are going to go out the roof!

Well any replys are welcome. Thanks tell me what you all think.

-Corey
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on November 23, 2011, 11:38:34 am
Here is the video on youtube of the lifter ticking. You cant hear it very well until i get out of the car. The car is at running temp.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgEXlF_0PqA&feature=channel_video_title
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: BlueMule on November 25, 2011, 06:18:44 pm
Dankmiester, have they put in electricity to the houses in Mocksville yet????? Just kidding, a little Wake Forest humor  ;D

Anyway, here is an idle stop from NAPA, it is from a 1986 GMC pickup. I think it is kind of pricey new, and you should be able to find one at a bone yard much cheaper. The thing to remember is that these only come on carburated engines, if it is fuel injected it will not have one because the idle is controlled by the IAC valve.

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=CRB22081_0205554575&An=599001+101986+50030+2030016+26664&Ar=AND(P_RecType%3aA)

I actually bought one from VW for 89 Bannanas, I know crazy, but its how I roll. A lot of A1 & A2 owners complain about the a/c not being cold at idle, a lot of times the idle compensator/stop is disconnected or broken, so you turn the A/C on the idle drops, the compressor is not turning at optimal speed and as the folks from Kay Beck Quack say "Wah Lah", the A/C cools poorly at idle.

You definitely have a tickopalooza going on there.
Have you tried running the valves with a go no go feeler gauge?
Did you set the valves according to the manual, I think you are supposed to rotate the engine to X point and set valve x,x,x, and x. Then rotate again and set the rest?

Sometimes the heel of the cam is not the lowest part of the cam lobe. In the early 80's we had trouble setting valves in sentras because the lowest part of the cam was just past the heel of the lobe. You also may have some funky wear in that lobe, and that is cauing the tick. Try moving the engine a few degrees past the point were you are setting the clearance now, and see if you find more clearance in one or more lobes.

BlueMule
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on November 26, 2011, 09:30:29 pm
Haha your soo funny! But anyways thanks for the link that is exactly what i need that would be awesome to find in the junk yard.

But on the tick subject i didnt set the clearance, my machinest did to the spec. i told him to. Per Bentley
And he is one good machinest, slow as hell tho. will a tick like that hurt anything if i let it go? Im hoping that once i switch to full  synthetic oil it will calm down alot. or quit. Ive heard of peoples engines doing that when they added synthetic oil.

Im probably going to switch at around 4-5000Miles

-Corey

Dankmiester, have they put in electricity to the houses in Mocksville yet????? Just kidding, a little Wake Forest humor  ;D

Anyway, here is an idle stop from NAPA, it is from a 1986 GMC pickup. I think it is kind of pricey new, and you should be able to find one at a bone yard much cheaper. The thing to remember is that these only come on carburated engines, if it is fuel injected it will not have one because the idle is controlled by the IAC valve.

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=CRB22081_0205554575&An=599001+101986+50030+2030016+26664&Ar=AND(P_RecType%3aA)

I actually bought one from VW for 89 Bannanas, I know crazy, but its how I roll. A lot of A1 & A2 owners complain about the a/c not being cold at idle, a lot of times the idle compensator/stop is disconnected or broken, so you turn the A/C on the idle drops, the compressor is not turning at optimal speed and as the folks from Kay Beck Quack say "Wah Lah", the A/C cools poorly at idle.

You definitely have a tickopalooza going on there.
Have you tried running the valves with a go no go feeler gauge?
Did you set the valves according to the manual, I think you are supposed to rotate the engine to X point and set valve x,x,x, and x. Then rotate again and set the rest?

Sometimes the heel of the cam is not the lowest part of the cam lobe. In the early 80's we had trouble setting valves in sentras because the lowest part of the cam was just past the heel of the lobe. You also may have some funky wear in that lobe, and that is cauing the tick. Try moving the engine a few degrees past the point were you are setting the clearance now, and see if you find more clearance in one or more lobes.

BlueMule
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: BlueMule on November 29, 2011, 09:52:22 pm
Hey D, you are right, switching to Synthetic may help the tick. As far as damage not much of a chance if the valves are too loose, but if they are too tight, especially the exhaust valves, they will not sit on the seats long enough to get rid of their heat and can burn, it can also get the exhaust manifold to glow red at idle on a gasser :o. Anyway seems like you have done well in your rebuild  ;D

All the best

BlueMule
Title: Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
Post by: dankcorey22 on December 01, 2011, 08:20:47 pm
Thanks Dood! I know they are not to tight! I can spin the lifter when the top of the lobe is not down on that valve. So ill just wait to switch to synthetic i guessss....  ;D

-Corey