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Engine Specific Info and Questions => Non VW Group Diesel => Topic started by: snakemaster on December 23, 2012, 06:59:25 pm
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this is a strange set up for a diesel , you guys get theas engines over the pond http://www.flickr.com/photos/22455491@N02/6851656418/
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Sounds like a 3-53 Jimmy, only tamer ;)
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Is that a flat 4? I've never seen anything like it.
Detroit Diesel made a "pancake" variant of their 2 stroke engines, for bus applications, it went under the floor of the bus, they put them in a lot of those typical American yellow school buses. I still occasionally see them, they have a distinct sound. I'm sure there are tons of them plying the roads of Guatemala.
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6 pistons and only 3 injectors
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Is that a flat 4? I've never seen anything like it.
Detroit Diesel made a "pancake" variant of their 2 stroke engines, for bus applications, it went under the floor of the bus, they put them in a lot of those typical American yellow school buses. I still occasionally see them, they have a distinct sound. I'm sure there are tons of them plying the roads of Guatemala.
thought they were just a inline 6-71 on their side?
you mean to tell me, that they were a different engine all together?
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http://www.sa.hillman.org.au/TS3.htm
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Well that's just cool. Thanks for that.
I wonder what kind of spray pattern the injectors have.
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Well that's just cool. Thanks for that.
I wonder what kind of spray pattern the injectors have.
probably some weird, flat fan shaped spray pattern i would guess?
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Is that a flat 4? I've never seen anything like it.
Detroit Diesel made a "pancake" variant of their 2 stroke engines, for bus applications, it went under the floor of the bus, they put them in a lot of those typical American yellow school buses. I still occasionally see them, they have a distinct sound. I'm sure there are tons of them plying the roads of Guatemala.
thought they were just a inline 6-71 on their side?
you mean to tell me, that they were a different engine all together?
I would think the had to cast it a little differently, to lay it on it's side, rather than just change the mounts, or else you wouldn't end up with the oil on the bottom. But I think the internals are all the same as the other 71 series engines. I was merely making a comparison.
Anyway, a "flat" engine isn't necessarily horizontally opposed, though people interchange the terms. I think that's where we got confused. But it looks like this thing is an entirely different beast than either. I had assumed it was some kind of flat engine.
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Is that a flat 4? I've never seen anything like it.
Detroit Diesel made a "pancake" variant of their 2 stroke engines, for bus applications, it went under the floor of the bus, they put them in a lot of those typical American yellow school buses. I still occasionally see them, they have a distinct sound. I'm sure there are tons of them plying the roads of Guatemala.
thought they were just a inline 6-71 on their side?
you mean to tell me, that they were a different engine all together?
I would think the had to cast it a little differently, to lay it on it's side, rather than just change the mounts, or else you wouldn't end up with the oil on the bottom. But I think the internals are all the same as the other 71 series engines. I was merely making a comparison.
Anyway, a "flat" engine isn't necessarily horizontally opposed, though people interchange the terms. I think that's where we got confused. But it looks like this thing is an entirely different beast than either. I had assumed it was some kind of flat engine.
its a 3 cyl, with 6 pistons, and one crank.. has huge "rocker arms" for connecting rods..
and look at the VWs, they lay those buggers over on their sides in the vanagon.. and they use an upright engine..
the 6-71 pancake isnt flat, its still angled for oil to return to the pan, but you already knew that..
my grandpa said that they really arent that much different from a normal inline 6-71 jimmy..
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the commer diesel ts3 lookes like it would be a bit beter on fuel the way it is set up ,compaired to a 4 71 , i dont no why the commer type engine is not in newer cars , it just seems to of been droped
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2 stroke is bad for emissions.
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2 stroke is bad for emissions.
I don't quite see why though...
On a gas engine, of course, you get a lot of oil burning and unburned fuel, but with a diesel? I would think that all the diesel should be burned up in the down stroke, and then it exits the engine on the up stroke. Of course, you get some leftover exhaust in every fresh air charge, but new diesels have EGR anyway so there's already exhaust in the intake air.
The only reason I can think that the old Detroits smoked like they did, would be that leaner the injection systems they used were designed around WWII and didn't atomize the diesel fuel effieciently like a modern diesel does, and maybe injected too much fuel for the intake charge (less oxygen due to the presence of exhaust). The oil control probably wasn't as good either. But those problems could be solved with a modern injection systems and modern materials and you would still have the advantage of a 2 stroke- a twice as many power strokes per cycle making more power with the same displacement and making it more efficiently, with less energy wasted to keep the engine going.
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2 stroke is bad for emissions.
with a diesel, i dont see how.. there is no un-burnt fuel/air mix being expelled out the exhaust during scavenging?
the diesel only has air in the cylinder. when the exhaust ports/valves open up, the only thing besides exhaust going out, is air..
with gas engines, yes, 2 stroke is bad for emissions, because of the un-burnt fuel in the exhaust.. but i dont see how a diesel would suffer from the same short comings? the fuel isnt injected into the cylinder until well after the exhaust valves are already closed..
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The rings pull oil right out the exhaust port.
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The rings pull oil right out the exhaust port.
with an engine like a jimmy, with exhaust valves, how does that happen?
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Couple of vids I found.
Another one running.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrAoj5Cuu68
And a good one showing the weird internals they use, and supercharger. Note the engine is a display model and the noise is another old engine driving it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-OqYFB4ofY
I missed out on getting one of these out of a mates shed during a clearout a while back. I just had no room at the time to store it. :-(
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The rings pull oil right out the exhaust port.
with an engine like a jimmy, with exhaust valves, how does that happen?
Sorry, that wold be intake on a Detroit
(http://www.tugboatenthusiastsociety.org/Images/Photos-Machinery/DD-ENGINE-71-3-500PIX.jpg)
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The rings pull oil right out the exhaust port.
with an engine like a jimmy, with exhaust valves, how does that happen?
Sorry, that wold be intake on a Detroit
(http://www.tugboatenthusiastsociety.org/Images/Photos-Machinery/DD-ENGINE-71-3-500PIX.jpg)
how come you can only buy exhaust valves online for a jimmy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Diesel_Series_71 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Diesel_Series_71)
first part of the article clearly states that they have exhaust valves..
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Yes, air comes in ports at bottom of cyl. Exhaust is pushed out valves in head. IIRC, there was a Jimmy made with no valves, sort of like a 2 stroke gasser, but apparently it wasn't that efficient due to poor scavenging.
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air comes in the middle of the cyl , i usto take of the air box plates and get a screw driver to check the rings, give them a we push in and see them spring back , and with the piston at BDC you could look up and inspect the bore , the only time i would see blue smoke coming from the exhaust was when the bores were glased and the oil control was gumed , eather from that i think thay are good engines 4 71 ,6 71 v8s and the v8 92s ,worked on some v12s and a few v16 with twin turbo , bolted to a HT 400 halliburton pump
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So I had a little new year party and I showed this thread to a friend of mine that is a medium/heavy duty truck mechanic and he said he's never seen anything like this engine here in the states, so I'm thinking this kind of technology never made it over here, which is a damn shame.
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http://www.sa.hillman.org.au/TS3_files/go_ts3.gif (http://www.sa.hillman.org.au/TS3_files/go_ts3.gif)
Totally bonkers, saw one at an autojumble last year, but it was about 3' square, and about 2' high, unlikely to fit many engine bays. They worked well, allegedly. ;D
Google "napier deltic" if you really want diesel madness. :o
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j53v75mJj_4
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http://www.sa.hillman.org.au/TS3_files/go_ts3.gif (http://www.sa.hillman.org.au/TS3_files/go_ts3.gif)
Totally bonkers, saw one at an autojumble last year, but it was about 3' square, and about 2' high, unlikely to fit many engine bays. They worked well, allegedly. ;D
Google "napier deltic" if you really want diesel madness. :o
Ah, the Napier & Sons Deltic engine; triangular triple 2-stroke valveless opposed-piston diesel engine. 3 crankshafts. 3 cylinders, 6 pistons, and that is just one bank.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/Napier_deltic_animation_large.gif/220px-Napier_deltic_animation_large.gif)
Now imagine that with 3 to 6 banks. That's 18-36 pistons! Couple all that with a biiiiig nose mounted supercharger, and you get an engine that can power anything from locomotives to navy fast attack vessels. I actually used to be big into train stuff when I was little, so I actually knew about this engine before I was a diesel geek. THEY SOUND SOOO COOL!! I just love any really wacky engine that exists, from hit-and-miss, to opposed-piston plants like that commer, to . . . well this :)
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If you have some spare time and a CNC mill.............
http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/Tomlinson.htm (http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/Tomlinson.htm)
Just to complete the threadjack ;D