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Engine Specific Info and Questions => Non VW Group Diesel => Topic started by: the caveman on March 22, 2010, 11:07:11 pm
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someone came to the shop today with one of these today : [hope the link works]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/that_chrysler_guy/4139796470/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/that_chrysler_guy/4139796470/#)
a 1980 cadillac seville but it was diesel. Didn't have any Canadian or US DOT stickers and the guy said it came from mid east somewhere. crazy
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Apparently the Seville was plagued with rotten GM engines when it was re-released in the Eighties. The 5.7 diesel, the 8-6-4, the baby 4.1 V8... :p
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Let's not forget the Olds 350 gasser with the port efi and a choke for cold weather :o That may have been the 70's come to think of it..
Either way, very cool to see one of these ugly things still going, you tried to buy it, right?? ;D
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In this http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=24873.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=24873.0) they have some info about a diesel cadillac
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"you tried to buy it, right?? "
It was very cool ,but you couldn't pay me enough to own a GM built diesel
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:-X burn it?
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Ahh yes, the car that crushed any hopes of diesel powered vehicles becoming mainstream in the U.S.
If I'm not mistaken, the only real problem with those cars (aside from the atrocious power-to-weight ratio) was that GM did not provide an adequate means to remove water from the fuel, something that was critical back then but largely irrelevant now?
Couldn't you get a 300D back then for about the same amount of money?
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The water separator was a biggie, but there were other issues as well.. On the first generation they cheaped out on fasteners.. Especially the head bolts.. Quality control was rather shoddy too.. IT was nothing to measure the chambers in the heads and find a half CC plus variance between cylinders :o The second generation was slightly (and I mean very slightly) better.. Couple all this with dealer techs who knew nothing about diesel engines and well, we've all seen what happened...
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The real problem with the GM 5.7D was idiots with ether. Every one of them that got traded in went through the used car auctions. Most had weak batteries so EVERY ONE that got run through a used car auction was started/killed with ether. I have seen a bunch of these motors apart and the ether would break the main caps and pull the main bolts out of the block. That and break pistons. The big sign on the air clean said never use ether on these motors but that did not stop the idiots.
I used to specialize in 5.7Ds at my shop and knew how to make them live. The second problem was GMs goofy cooling system in those cars. The top of the radiator was below the heads, but the cap was still on the radiator. That meant that any air in the cooling system collected in the heads and there went the head gaskets. It took several hot/cold cycles to push the air out the cap. A tiny coolant leak and a top up with coolant a few times and you had a HG leak which cascaded into a breakdown. Not the motors fault however. Blame the bean counters. A simple surge tank above the heads for the air to collect would saved 75% of them.
They also had weenie, poor quality head bolts, but these could be replaced with Allen bolts when you changed the HG. The later roller can 5.7s would get 24-28 mpg in a Toronado. The last iteration of the V6 GM diesel had the extra head bolts that it cried out for and was a really good motor. I had one in a full size '83 RWD Cutlas that got a real 43 mpg. I was an idiot to sell that car.
BTW water in the fuel was not the problem. It was some plastic parts in the governor that disintegrated, probably from some of the diesel additives sold back then.
I built a roller cam motor for a friends Olds 88 that had a jimmied pump, a mild port job and a hotter cam. It was a very sweet rig. Lots of power and after balancing the injectors it had a much quieter rumble to it that was really sweet. It kind of snarled at you.
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Wasn't that V6 a Belgian diesel or something? My sister had a 1982 Buick Regal with that diesel v6 and it got awesome mileage (would have been better if the car had overdrive). Some parts went on it and they were hard to get get from Buick. My Brother in law was sorry he got rid of it though.
Nice to see someone with extensive knowledge of the infamous GM diesels. I always thought the biggest problem was using a gas block, not the problems mentioned above. But it still leaves a bad taste in many peoples mouths. 2 guys in my firehouse own hybrids, some won't even think of going near a diesel (their loss), one who does extensive commuting is looking into the Golf TDI, and a pal in another firehouse did buy a Golf TDI after driving my 09 Jetta, but wanted the smaller car. A know irt all female (imagine THAT!!lol) I work with who is into the 'green scene' did not like it when I told her my TDI made less emissions and carbon footprint than a hybrid. Shame is she loves VW's. Her loss.
And a new TDI engine is still cheaper than replacing those hybrid batteries (corrections welcomed).
Stay safe, stay well. Jimmy.
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Couldn't you get a 300D back then for about the same amount of money?
Actually you could buy two caddies for the cost of a 300D.
I always thought the biggest problem was using a gas block
They never did any such thing.
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Couldn't you get a 300D back then for about the same amount of money?
Actually you could buy two caddies for the cost of a 300D.
I always thought the biggest problem was using a gas block
They never did any such thing.
they never used a gas block, but they started with a gas block, and modified it for use as a diesel block, rather than just building a diesel specific block.
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they never used a gas block, but they started with a gas block, and modified it for use as a diesel block, rather than just building a diesel specific block.
Funny, so did VW with the first 1.5, and IIRC they did it in about 90 days. And we are still driving them (with a few improvements)....unlike the GMs
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Wasn't that V6 a Belgian diesel or something? My sister had a 1982 Buick Regal with that diesel v6 and it got awesome mileage
No, it was all US made GM stuff. I rebuilt one in a Cutlass Ciera once and it was very nice inside. It had male Torx head bolts for the extra head bolts that you accessed through the intake runners. You had to remove a pipe plug in each of the intake runners to get at them. They had the first "styrofoam" cast parts that I ever saw. (Heads and intake.) Very nice stuff.
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It was very cool ,but you couldn't pay me enough to own a GM built diesel
Lets see, in 4 years and 30K miles, my 6.2 has cost me
$100 glow plugs
$20 1 lifter
$20 frost plugs
$7 valve cover gasket
$22 throttle cable.
Hows your VW compare? ;D Mine have all cost about enough to offset the fuel economy difference.
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A friend of our family had a V8 diesel Cutlass... I don't recall if he had many problems with the car, but I do remember being awed by the gargantuan cloud of black smoke he could leave by dropping it into 3rd and flooring it. I was more in love with his other car; a '53 MG-TD.
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they never used a gas block, but they started with a gas block, and modified it for use as a diesel block, rather than just building a diesel specific block.
As did VW, Mercedes, BMW, Ford, International, Peugeot, Toyota, Nissan, etc etc. plus the 5.7D's block has been made into 400+hp g@s engines so the common "gas block" argument has no foundation.
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they never used a gas block, but they started with a gas block, and modified it for use as a diesel block, rather than just building a diesel specific block.
As did VW, Mercedes, BMW, Ford, International, Peugeot, Toyota, Nissan, etc etc. plus the 5.7D's block has been made into 400+hp g@s engines so the common "gas block" argument has no foundation.
the 5.7 gas blocks can be made to put out over 2000 horsepower...
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I pen an 82 olds with a 4.3 L diesel V6, it runs out well and has good power. It is true, they need good head bolts to hold them together. Arp sells a set of studs for the 5.7 v8, but you need a custom set for the v6. The v6 get up to
35 mpg!
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i want to own a vehicle with a 4.3 diesel. in the worst of ways.