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Engine Specific Info and Questions => Diesel Swaps => Topic started by: Smoker on June 26, 2013, 01:51:10 pm
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Well I guess I'll go ahead and get a thread started, even though this will most likely be a long, drawn out project... I need to start getting advice while I'm stockpiling parts.
For those that haven't seen it in the 'users rides' section, here's the background on the car
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=33467.0
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj1/kylesmoker/null_zps4bd2f02d.jpg)
The car has sentimental value, and I've told my wife I'll never sell it, so I might as well modernize it and make it enjoyable to drive!
Things I know so far:
-I have an ahu in my garage that needs a rebuild
-I've told libby to go ahead and build me a pump
Things I DON'T know yet:
-pretty much everything else lol
The major things I need to figure out are...
-transmission. I've got some research to do here... Quantum 5-speed? B5.5 tdi 5-speed?? Obviously this would take significant fabrication, which I can do.
-turbo, Injectors, i/c... I'm a turbo-diesel noob, and I'd appreciate any and all advice in this area.
Non-engine specific stuff:
-suspension needs a serious overhaul. Most parts for B1's are nla, which will make this part fun.
-I'm debating adding a/c and p/s... I want this car to be a true do-it-all car that will be a joy to drive, and leave the local rednecks speechless while I leave them in my dust. It will have a hitch. It will be daily driven. It will value function over form.
Also, I feel like I need to clarify my username... I was shocked that 'smoker' wasn't taken on a diesel forum, but it's actually my last name, not a coal rolling reference ;-)
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ok mr green corn... last name... yea right,...
alt set up, rad.. ic.. will be most fun...
the 5 speed is mods.. floor needs humps beat or cut..
which to use.. my father always wanted to put a 88-92ish audi 80/90 in his.,. be he has a euro ersion with weird gear ratios..
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What longitudinal transmissions were fitted to the VW or Audi TDIs?
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What longitudinal transmissions were fitted to the VW or Audi TDIs?
B5.5 is the only one I can think of, at least in the states.... But that's why I came here for advice! iirc, the gasser Quantum had a taller 5th than the TD, which makes no sense to me, but it would certainly be easier to find... I just missed one in my local yard :banghead:
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I haven't heard of any particular issues with the Quantum trans but you'll have to be gentle with any trans that is pre-TDI or pre-1.8T. If going through any work to fit a trans, seriously consider using one that was designed to work with that amount of torque. Weren't some of the Audis fitted with longitudinal trans and TDI engines?
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As far as suspension goes. My friend who has a quantum ordered audi 4000 bilstein sport inserts for the front and rear. (Rears aren't inserts obv.) He then used MK2/MK3 lowering springs (60/40 drop) which were a direct fit. It was a huge upgrade from stock and brought it to the height of a normal vehicle.
Sent from Outer Space!
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As far as suspension goes. My friend who has a quantum ordered audi 4000 bilstein sport inserts for the front and rear. (Rears aren't inserts obv.) He then used MK2/MK3 lowering springs (60/40 drop) which were a direct fit. It was a huge upgrade from stock and brought it to the height of a normal vehicle.
Sent from Outer Space!
Good info, thanks. I'll have to do some research on compatibility.
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the 88-93ish audi 80 had 4 bangers with 5 speeds... 80/90 autos had 4 or 5 banger.. 90 had 5 and 5 speed only..
so i think i would look for the 80 2.0 tranny set to see what it was like.. those were the 1st 2.0 8v used... short block..
i am thinking pretty much all audi after 95 were quattro? i cannot say ive ever seen a 2wd audi vs passat.. in the b5+
ive never been dasher fan.. thought bout it few times, but child hood memories of crappy ac, vinyl seats.. is my biggest ditturent.. but b3 fit me better... quantiums.. no cannot stand.. and imo b5 junk... mk1 best for dd though...
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the 88-93ish audi 80 had 4 bangers with 5 speeds... 80/90 autos had 4 or 5 banger.. 90 had 5 and 5 speed only..
so i think i would look for the 80 2.0 tranny set to see what it was like.. those were the 1st 2.0 8v used... short block..
i am thinking pretty much all audi after 95 were quattro? i cannot say ive ever seen a 2wd audi vs passat.. in the b5+
ive never been dasher fan.. thought bout it few times, but child hood memories of crappy ac, vinyl seats.. is my biggest ditturent.. but b3 fit me better... quantiums.. no cannot stand.. and imo b5 junk... mk1 best for dd though...
Wow... your utilization of the ellipses... puts me to shame.
There are plenty of Fwd B5's out there, just not with a tdi. I should find out what the gearing is in a manual Fwd 1.8t car.
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issue with b5 is b5 = 98-04.. audi = 6 speed quattro.. passat has a few 5 speed.. 2wd..
the 88-92ish 80 5 speed 4 banger is redesign tranny for the last of the b1/b2 series platform.. no idea what a "audi b3/b4" is.. but it would be audi's b3 platform.. their b4 is the 94ish thru the 98 b5.. but i think they all v6 quattro bt that point..
being that my father felt he could shoe horn in a 88 audi 80 tranny in his b1 dasher...and has all the parts to do so since 89ish.. just never got to it.. i have to beleive he saw good reason for it...
in europe all the fox/4000 stuff was called either audi 80 or 90.. 5 banger vs 4 up thru the b4 94ish era..
so knowing he tows cars on trailers w his dasher and such.. was into building higher performance gasser stuff.. for use in dasher... its worth looking into..
quantium style 5 speeds require the supports in the tunnle to be modded.. "dog" has that info for how/what to mod.. would most bolt in..
also when looking into b5 stuff.. make sure speedo not thru abs.. later ones are... just not 100% wghen... mk5 vw it abs for speed.. but audi seems to do crap like that years before vw..
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I'm confused... B5 Audis are 96-01, and there's more than a few fwd 5-speeds. Only B5 to get a 6-speed was the S4...
But the abs/speedo thing is a legit concern.
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Another important tranny note: B5/A4 1.8t equipped cars have 012 hydraulic clutch transmissions, and Dasher/Fox/4 cylinder Quantums have 013 cable clutch transmissions. If you were using a late model setup, you'd need to fab up a clutch master bracket, along with completely custom trans mounts. It's much easier to put a late transmission in a car that has a subframe, as you can just put the correct corresponding subframe into whatever car.
Also, a tdi will not bolt to a 5-cylinder trans, further limiting your trans choices. Hope this helps, your car looks very nice, and I like the tdi swap idea.
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If you were using a late model setup, you'd need to fab up a clutch master bracket, along with completely custom trans mounts. It's much easier to put a late transmission in a car that has a subframe, as you can just put the correct corresponding subframe into whatever car.
This is part of the reason I want to do it ;-)
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im working on a hydro conversion for a 020 in bunnies...
clutch masters easy.. usiing a roddo/b3 with the clevis pin build bracket . drill hole in pedal... bolt onto pedal and make a bracket..
the line is 6mm brake line.. get it in sectons at any part store.. get rubber flex line in 6mm for flex section...
bottle for brake fluid.. mitsu seems to have remove bottles for their clutch and brake.. brake huge.. so i use them.. by the time it runs out of fluid the master will have made my foot wet.. or the slave will have ruined the clutch D
i mounted my master under the dash ;)
think 88 audi 80 hydro too.. the 5 banger 5000/100 and quattros were too.. so id look for a 4000k quattro for clutch master set up.. :) i cannot garentee the 4000k q does but i think so.. :P
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Vanagons use the same fluid reservoir for both clutch and brake. The clutch master just gets a hose up to a nipple midway on the brake fluid res to be sure the clutch fails before brakes if there's a leak. I prefer hydro clutch over cable.
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B2/4000q clutch master cylinder is easy to fit. It is mounted to firewall, needs only 3 holes to drill. Speedo gears can be fitted to 012 transmissions instead of electric sender. 012 also has both bolt patterns, for 4 and 5,6,8 cylinder engines.
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a... no bottle for his master though... well nipple on bottle option... so old bug brake master bottle to keep vw.. or big huge 1/2 qt mitsu one :D that was the hardest "piece" for hydro conversion... as most bottle mount to it.. not remote..
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Been doing some thinking/research... fabricating the mounts, clutch master, shift linkage, etc, doesn't scare me... but it sounds like the tunnel might need some serious modification. Again, I'm not necessarily afraid of this, but I do want to keep the interior looking stock. If the tunnel needs to be changed to the point where the original console won't work, I'm not real excited about that. What can be done to improve an older trans? Bolt kit? Are they stronger, weaker, or the same as transverse 020's?
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id at min do quantium 5 speed.. yea needs mods but carpet still works... dog used to have nice pics...
next.. have you pulled your center consol?? its carped across the top.. got split down the middle.. so theory is it could be spread apart some and consol will hide the growing seam.. :D
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Yeah I've had it out before... I know there's some room to grow. I guess I just need to get my hands on a B5 trans and get some measurements.
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This is an impressive build thread where a fellow made the 1.8T spin backwards specifically to be able to use the "common and inexpensive" longitudinal 1.8T trans. The whole thing is an interesting read, but parts in the end showing the various ratios and whatnot may be particularly pertinent.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551286
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get an acme adapter kit for a Toyota tranny and just make a rwd dasher, might be less work in the end, would definitely be cooler. I have an mgb at the house that has been tempting me to do this same thing to it.
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Just because I've never heard of anyone doing it, but couldnt you swap in an auto tranny from a more robust VW or audi? gearing wouldnt be the same but is that the only reason not to?
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Just because I've never heard of anyone doing it, but couldnt you swap in an auto tranny from a more robust VW or audi? gearing wouldnt be the same but is that the only reason not to?
I'm not quite sure how to respond to this...
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giggle a tad... LOL... you know dasher auto tunnle so different that fitting a clutch in is a issue? no room for the 3rd pedal... saw someone doing auto to 5 speed conversion years ago on dog... the pedal sets so different in the way the throttle is shaped/mounted..
knowing that.. auto in no way fit...
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giggle a tad... auto in no way fit...
Good.
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Question: if you guys had access to an AHU and an ALH, which would you choose for this specific swap and why? Let's pretend the mileage/condition/price is the same...
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I would choose the AHU. It will bolt right in with the various accessories, brackets, mounts, etc... The ALH would be more work to fit. You would need to do custom work for mounting and you'd need to use the ALH accessory bracket and all the accessories. Maybe it would all fit well, but probably not. The AHU and ALH have the same displacement, pistons and the injection system is functionally the same and so they will develop the same power at the same efficiency. The ALH is a better engine in all the ways it is different, but in this case the AHU would be my clear choice.
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i will skip all that and the biggest reason.. oil pan... you would need a late 1.8t style pan from a passat... oil pump an dcrap different vs other things too as its chain drive.. so... the one thats a tad taller is much more direct fit..
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Just because I've never heard of anyone doing it, but couldnt you swap in an auto tranny from a more robust VW or audi? gearing wouldnt be the same but is that the only reason not to?
I'm not quite sure how to respond to this...
What? Because the size is different? Because the gearing is different? Because it would be a waste of time?
I asked a simple question because I DONT KNOW.
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Just because I've never heard of anyone doing it, but couldnt you swap in an auto tranny from a more robust VW or audi? gearing wouldnt be the same but is that the only reason not to?
Just because I've never heard of anyone doing it, but couldnt you swap in an auto tranny from a more robust VW or audi? gearing wouldnt be the same but is that the only reason not to?
I'm not quite sure how to respond to this...
giggle a tad... LOL... you know dasher auto tunnle so different that fitting a clutch in is a issue? no room for the 3rd pedal... saw someone doing auto to 5 speed conversion years ago on dog... the pedal sets so different in the way the throttle is shaped/mounted..
knowing that.. auto in no way fit...
Uh.. It was answered.
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Just because I've never heard of anyone doing it, but couldnt you swap in an auto tranny from a more robust VW or audi? gearing wouldnt be the same but is that the only reason not to?
I'm not quite sure how to respond to this...
What? Because the size is different? Because the gearing is different? Because it would be a waste of time?
I asked a simple question because I DONT KNOW.
Sorry, I just have zero interest in putting an auto trans in this car. I'll blame my Smartass response on the moonshine.
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Just because I've never heard of anyone doing it, but couldnt you swap in an auto tranny from a more robust VW or audi? gearing wouldnt be the same but is that the only reason not to?
I'm not quite sure how to respond to this...
What? Because the size is different? Because the gearing is different? Because it would be a waste of time?
I asked a simple question because I DONT KNOW.
no i gave the answere.. the width of the tunnle by the firewall is major different size for auto vs 4 speed dasher... they literally rebent the pedals so the big single brake pedal is more in the clutch area to make up for the differance... auto bell houing area huge vs 4 speed... so the body was shapped different to fit...
dasher owners group, dog.. had a guy years ago with pics of how off the 2 pedal sets were...