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Engine Specific Info and Questions => Non VW Group Diesel => Topic started by: dennis on February 26, 2010, 07:00:40 pm
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I Know this is the Non VW section but this is sort of VW. Im swapping a D24T engine from an 84 760 D24T into my 245 Wagon. This should be easy but today I found out that the turbo engine will not turn over a complete revolution. So far I got the engine out. Cam is out of the engine still no turn. Probably a nice rust ring in one or more cylinders. The head, and oil pan come off tomarrow. This will probably mean boring, and pistons. Crap. I had really hoped to just freshen it up a bit with rings, and bearings. Pics to follow. Oh did I mention the turbo is locked up too.
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somebody blow a head gasket and park it? I dont think I've seen one locked up yet.
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Parked 5 + years. Both timing belts well used. When I took the cam out all the valves appeared seated. I have always had better service out of a standard bore. I really hate to have it bored out. Im hoping oversized 1.6 T pistons are the same. You need anything from this car? Not the same trans as the gasser Volvos either. The Garret turbo looks pretty much like the gasser turbos. I have a 745 gasser turbo. The diesel one ils locked up.
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Turns over great with the head off. A lot of rodent debris in a couple of cylinders. Im gonna have to get my shots updated after messing with this car.
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. Im hoping oversized 1.6 T pistons are the same.
No, the squirter notch is 90* off.
You need anything from this car? Not the same trans as the gasser Volvos either. The Garret turbo looks pretty much like the gasser turbos. I have a 745 gasser turbo. The diesel one ils locked up.
ZF 4HP22E? some gassers use it, as well as MBX, land rover, and about 20 other cars.
Fill the oil part of the turbo with some mystery oil or something for a day, it might just be varnish stiction.
Its a T3 bolt pattern, but I think our exhaust side is smaller than most of the gassers.
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[ZF 4HP22E? some gassers use it, as well as MBX, land rover, and about 20 other cars.
Fill the oil part of the turbo with some mystery oil or something for a day, it might just be varnish stiction.
Its a T3 bolt pattern, but I think our exhaust side is smaller than most of the gassers.
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The trans to you $50.00 + shipping. the car originally layed down over engine problems. I will get you the exact numbers off it Monday. I would imagine that the bell housing is somewhat rare these days. The only other thing according to the PO. All I want from the car is the diesel tach. The diff is non LSD so no gain for me there. Did Vovo sell one? One would think so because of the weather in Sweeden. I am in need of a manual trans. Mine chatters though I may replace main shaft bearings. the OD unit looks to have been replaced recently. I'll seperate the turbo sections and soak em in some tranny fluid, but I need to pick some brains to see what else might be an improvement. Got the engiendown to the bare block today. All the pistons look good. Rings were the only thing worn out. Doe have a bit of a ring ridge. Going to get it washed and measured to see If I need to bore it or not Monday. My 245 body is rock solid. I love old ugly junk.
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the bellhousing is somewhat rare, but I wouldn't put an auto in my car if you paid me $50 :D
---though the though of mating one to a land rover tranny has crossed my mind.
240s have a very rare true-trac option, and very late models may have the Eaton G80 locker. the locker from a late 740/940 can fit a late 240 diff if you shorten one axle a hair.
The diesel manual trans is a standard M46, but the OD may have a different ratio (a few gas cars have the M47 5 speed instead).
as for Turbo... A Holset bolts to the manifold....
Volvo 740 2.4 Turbodiesel test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-z76N7iRVg#)
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Your the king. That vidieo is bad ass. I just checked car-part.com and it looks like the manual trannys are the same for 740 and 240 88 and up. I am hoping that the difference in the older ones and newer ones is the bell housing having a hole for the gasser crankshaft position sensor. My Wagonn is an 83. Im thinking the 4 speed OD may not hold up. I have a gasser 745 turbo parts car w/automatic. How do I ID that diff.
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I know the Volvo owner. That Volvo has dynoed 297hp (I´ve seen the dynosheet). Stock internals, Holset HX40 Super and 12mm pump.
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:oI knew it sounded pretty pissed, but that is an impressive HP rating.
Dennis, the diesel bellhousing is different bolt pattern from the redblock one. I'm pretty sure the diesel ones are different for a 240, as the engine mounts straight up, while a 740 is on a slant. At some point, the speedo was moved from the OD to the rearend, and ABS cars have a different speed sensor that needs 2/3 of its teeth removed to work with earlier speedos.
I wouldn't worry too much about the 4 speed till you make at least as much power as a gas turbo car.
this help your ID? http://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/Driveline.htm#RearAxleRatioTable (http://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/Driveline.htm#RearAxleRatioTable)
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Yeah. I understand the bell housing difference. VW to Volvo = special. I am just looking to go to a standard 5 speed. Will the later 5 speed trannys bolt up to the diesel bell housing that is currently bolted to my 4 speed with the electric 5th gear? Longer or shorter driveshafts I can have done down the street. The speedo cable as you mentioned is a concern though. Even the 84 760 Im killing has a speed sensor on the diff for the speedo. Gonna have to study that circuit if Alldata has the info to see if I can adapt it to the 83 245. Im keeping the 760 instrument cluster anyway. It has a diesel tach. After some thought I really don't know of any huge problems with the 4 speed OD units. The one in my car has 250K + miles, but chatters. Might be able to freshen it up with mainshaft bearings. I don't recall in ten years of working on these cars of ever replacing one. Just occassional clutch jobs. Both 760 TD and 240 NA are mounted on a slant, and appear to use regular gasser 240 motor mounts. I can compare part numbers tomarrow.
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The M47 5speed is an M46 with 5th in a chunk bolted to the back instead of in the Laycock box. 3rd gear, and the mainshaft bearing are the same, and where either generally blow apart on 3-4 upshift or pulling hard at the strip. The M90 I think has a different bellhousing, and has to be imported from Europe, and is stronger, but maybe not as good as a T5.
Volvo mounts were harder rubber for diesel, but this apparently isn't always the case with aftermarket.
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What is the fascination with the HX40 on small engines? That turbo is way too large for only 297hp and its actually making performance suffer! An HX35 or HY35 would be much more suitable for it and spool up much quicker so you don't have that nasty smoke trail while waiting for the turbo to respond.
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Just dropping in to plug d24t.com You should come over and join up, lots of good volvo diesel info and great knowledge base too.
The M46 trannies from the early 80s up to the m47 will swap in all you need to change is the bellhousing. As turbogriesel said, the m47 isn't any stronger. The early M46 trannies had a steel case which is supposed to be a little stronger, but cam with the weaker Laycock J type overdrive. Kinda a catch 22. The later trannies used a stronger OD but were an aluminum case. Apparently you cant swap the overdrive units as the output shaft is a different length. I'm sure you could take apart the trans and swap out shafts but what a PITA. If you look over on the d24t forum there is a thread on manual transmissions, the M90 is pictured in one post next to a m46. HUGE trans, and much much stronger. I would say its up there with a T-5 the thing looks like it came out of a dump truck. As for getting one in the states.... Good luck with that. It would have to be a diesel trans as the bellhousing is cast as part of the whole trans. You couldn't find just any m90 and just a diesel bellhousing like you can with the m46...
Hope that was helpfull.
Jason
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Just found it while looking for oversize pistons. My block is toast with out them. Even Volvo is back ordered.
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. Im hoping oversized 1.6 T pistons are the same.
[/quote]No, the squirter notch is 90* off.
Is it otherwise the same? Could the correctly positioned notch be machined in? .50 mm oversize from Volvo is $261.14 each list price. None in the U.S. back ordered. I can get the set for $1200.00 if availible from sweeden. Wait a min gotta breath.
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Ya gotta figure VW buys em and marks em up to dealer price, then sells em to Volvo who mark em up that much again :o
Might try shopping (outside the US) for Audi or LT Transporter parts?
I know somebody who did cut the other notches and come out with a running engine.
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I can sell you the pistons in std, or oversize for 119 a piece. They are German Kolbenshmidts and we buy direct from the importer so no vw markup BS. Actually a couple vw dealers here in STL buy stuff from us and then mark it up rather than ordering it through vw!
Jason
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Sounds pretty good. Do they come with rings, and wrist pins?
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. Im hoping oversized 1.6 T pistons are the same.
No, the squirter notch is 90* off.
Im thinking it is not. if you look at this post http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=18348.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=18348.0) at the guy's sencond piston photo, and comare it to mine it looks like everything is oriented the same (rod bump and squirter notch)
(http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af125/verdigo59/Picture005.jpg)
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I'd ask my buddy who ran into this problem, but he will claim senility... Maybe I can find some o the parts next time I'm at his shop, and figure out what was going on.
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If I have to I will pull my Caddy pan and compare. Im pretty sure there the sam though. This thing is going together one way othe the other though.
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I have a set of TD pistons here that I haven't gotten around to installing yet.. I can snap pics, what angles woudl you need them from?
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In question is the relationship between the notch, piston front, and wrist pin.
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Okay got some pics.. Looks to me like the squirter notch is 90 deg off on the VW piston.. However the new pistons I got have 2 notches which makes me think they would work for either.. I hate to say it, but the new piston is from prothe...
VW Piston
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/prothe%20piston/vw%20piston/DSCF2044.jpg)
Prothe Piston
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/prothe%20piston/DSCF2032.jpg)
Here's the link to some more pics.. Apologies for the quality.. Lemme know if you need more..
VW Piston http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/prothe%20piston/vw%20piston/ (http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/prothe%20piston/vw%20piston/)
Prothe Piston http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/prothe%20piston/ (http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/prothe%20piston/)
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Okay got some pics.. Looks to me like the squirter notch is 90 deg off on the VW piston.. However the new pistons I got have 2 notches which makes me think they would work for either.. I hate to say it, but the new piston is from prothe...
Can you snap a pic of the bare block bottomside up to compare to the D24T block for squirter position?
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5 and 6 cylinders take the same pistons dont they? because 4 and 5 cylinder pistons interchange.
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Finally got pistons. $95.00 a pop. The block is at the machine shop being bored. D24T or 1.6TD The pistons Ive are Kobenschmidt (http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af125/verdigo59/Picture006.jpg)
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GOw about that color??(http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af125/verdigo59/Picture008.jpg)
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GOw about that color??
Hang on, lemme get my shades!
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looking good.
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Not much further along. After working on other peoples Junque all day in the heat I don't have the motivation. did get the oil squirters, and crank torqued down though.
(http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af125/verdigo59/Picture011.jpg)
(http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af125/verdigo59/Picture019.jpg)