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Engine Specific Info and Questions => Non VW Group Diesel => Topic started by: wdkingery on July 07, 2013, 04:37:10 pm

Title: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: wdkingery on July 07, 2013, 04:37:10 pm
My brother has a 1986 Ford f250 with a 6.9l idi IH motor in it. the previous owner installed a banks turbo, some gauges and a shift kit in the auto trans.

my brother dislikes driving and owning it, but I won't let him get rid of it, so it just sits.

well i have been out of the country as of late, and now that i'm back, i decided to fire it up and take it for a spin. boy i loved how it cranked right up after 6+ months of sitting!

well, drove it for about 20 minutes, was idling past the front door of a walmart and it just shut off. i mean plain conked out. this truck has never done this before! no, i don't abuse this one with motor oils, etc.

well, the only way it would fire up is if i gave it some skinny pedal. so i got it running, and now it idles on it's own, starts fine, etc. but something is wrong. it's like the gas pedal wont' push far enough; i cannot get boost to build very well, it won't stretch it's shifts on out like it should when floored.. but i checked the accelerator cable it's fine.

wonder what happened to that pump?? i suspected water in the fuel.. i've since checked the fuel i found in the filter, didn't find water.. added some iso-heet to the tanks.

anyone got an idea about why it just won't go? you almost have to floor it to accelerate normally, and this truck, with it's aftermarket turbo and IP turned all the way up used to zip right along 20 seconds before the walmart fall out.

i don't know enough about the 2 vacuum lines and the electrical bits on the IP. 
Title: Re: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: vanbcguy on July 07, 2013, 07:49:34 pm
A clogged fuel filter would definitely do that. I'd start with a fresh filter and go from there.

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Title: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: jboogie13 on July 07, 2013, 07:52:00 pm
Diesel purge the pump just for good measure, friend of mine has a 7.3 IDI, those trucks are awesome.
Title: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: mzak88 on July 07, 2013, 11:16:29 pm
The factory water separator has to go, if it hasn't already. They always leak air into fuel system, being on the vacuum side. Stanadyne FM 100 is awesome. Consider an electric lift pump at the tank(s).
Title: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: wdkingery on July 07, 2013, 11:23:16 pm
I am afraid that removing the water separator is what got me in this situation.. Cause I never replaced it with anything! The owner was supposed to get a screw one type with a separator as part of it.

I think something inside the pump has snapped. It runs just great. Idles fine. Just has no power. Basically have to floor it, isn't making any egt, won't really produce any boost. I mean it will make a pound or 2 when you really wring it out but.. It's like I'm not pushing the pedal hard enough. I just don't know what's inside the pump to know
Title: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: jboogie13 on July 08, 2013, 08:05:02 am
If i remember correctly, the pumps for those trucks are relatively inexpensive compared to the VW pumps. Hopefully it doesn't come to that, but if it does you can keep your legs and just sell an arm  ;D
Title: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: theman53 on July 08, 2013, 08:39:27 am
are those the ones that the IP runs off oil pressure? If so and you have an oil leak at the back of the engine that could be it too. I would do the simple filter and the other stuff suggested too.
Title: Re: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: vanbcguy on July 08, 2013, 11:22:57 am
Low/no power and low boost on a diesel means not enough fuel. If it is running at all I'd be shocked to find the cause was something physically broken in the pump. Fuel starvation on the other hand....

Rule out the simple stuff before going off the deep end!

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Title: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: jboogie13 on July 08, 2013, 12:04:02 pm
are those the ones that the IP runs off oil pressure? If so and you have an oil leak at the back of the engine that could be it too. I would do the simple filter and the other stuff suggested too.
No, the powerstrokes (DI) use the oil pressure to control injection. The Ip is still a rotary pump but is lower pressure because the final pressurization of fuel happens at the injector. It's a pretty neat process IMO.
Title: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: mzak88 on July 08, 2013, 12:50:12 pm
Get a stanadyne or racor water separator/filter head. Cheap insurance regardless. You can get them both with integral priming pumps, water bowls, heaters etc. even an electric lift pump built in on the Stan.
Title: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: burn_your_money on July 15, 2013, 02:42:13 pm
I'd imagine that the stock lift pump failed. It's bolted onto the block I think on the drivers side. Check the oil to see if it's diluted with fuel.

You can check the fuel pressure at the fuel filter. There is a fitting on the filter housing for checking the pressure. You will kill the IP if you run it without the lift pump, it is not capable of pulling fuel on it's own from the tank.

Worst comes to worst, sell me the turbo goodies, my 84 is a bit slow :)

It's been a while since I had any of these pumps apart but I'm doubtful that something is broken inside the pump.
Title: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: wdkingery on July 15, 2013, 02:49:26 pm
yes i'm a bloomin freekin idiot, as it's likely that is what's wrong with it, and so what do i do? assume it's bad fuel, and go run it for 4 or 5 gallons. hopefully i have not managed to damage the IP this way. idiot.  but i just put a quality chinese autozone lift pump on this thing not long ago.. less than a year

Title: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on July 15, 2013, 03:52:39 pm
The tank sending unit and switch valves  both can cause problems too, as well as rats  occasionally get a taste for the nylon fuel hose.
Title: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: wdkingery on July 24, 2013, 06:52:20 pm
Check the oil to see if it's diluted with fuel.

it doesn't appear to be :(

You can check the fuel pressure at the fuel filter. There is a fitting on the filter housing for checking the pressure.

it appears that the lift pump is ok sadly.. i pushed the bike tire fitting in on the side of the filter housing, and it pissed fuel, and the truck didn't even miss a beat.. so it seems the lift pump is bringing up fuel. damn. do you have any more thoughts? i really thought i was going to go fix this..

Title: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: burn_your_money on July 25, 2013, 06:35:01 pm
It's a pain but you might try a local fuel shop to see if they will bench test your pump. Maybe something did let go. I can't picture the insides of the pump anymore though...
Title: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: wdkingery on July 25, 2013, 06:38:33 pm
Well let me ask you this. How to install a new pump? I know it won't be as easy as a dial indicator. I heard I would need  a special tool. Do you know? Something about dynamic timing cannot be set by ear or something.
Title: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on July 25, 2013, 08:42:45 pm
You line up the dots IIRC.
Title: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: wdkingery on July 25, 2013, 08:44:10 pm
HAHAHAH i'd pay you a dollar for that one. you line up the dots eh?! is there no timing involved?
Title: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: burn_your_money on July 26, 2013, 06:23:10 pm
You scribe a line on the pump housing and pump bracket. When you get it back put it in the same place. There is a special timing tool for doing this job that uses the injection line pulses I think. Don't take the gear cover off, that will mess you up bad.

I have the factory service manuals if you need some pictures.
Title: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on July 27, 2013, 03:42:44 pm
You access the 3 pump bolts from inside the cover plate  and once they are undone, the pump simply pulls out the back side of the cover, and the new one goes in exactly the same. There is a dowel pin, which must align inside there, and you'll see it. It isn't difficult.

Unless you mistakenly removed the gear, it which case you will have to find the dots.
Title: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: wdkingery on July 28, 2013, 08:24:48 pm
ok sounds good; are the three bolts a turn-to-time affair like our pump?
Title: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on July 29, 2013, 03:37:44 pm
Yes, you want a  tick of advance, maybe 1/8".

The pump has in and out screens that will shut you down if blocked.
Start with the out fitting, the inlet one  is much more involved, and transfer pump parts can fall out.
Title: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: burn_your_money on July 29, 2013, 10:33:09 pm
You need to scribe a line though because the pump can be rotated. There are 3 15mm bolts externally and then inside the gear cover there are 3 more.
Title: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: wdkingery on July 30, 2013, 07:37:57 pm
Fianlly got the lift pump changed today..no change as expected. What the he'll could be wrong with that ip?! Anyway, now I need to find about a turbo pump, cause it was n/a orginally and has a turbo added, and I doubt they added a turbo ip at that time
Title: Re: 6.9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on July 31, 2013, 05:02:45 pm
You just crank the fuel screw, or you can specify  a heavy duty pump at the shop, and they will turn it for you.
Title: 6 9l idi ford DB2 IP issue
Post by: Samprark on March 11, 2019, 12:05:40 pm
I want to hammer out the specifics of the Ford IDI Conversion.  I have done a fuel routing schematic and have a list of suggested parts.  I could use the specifics of what size fittings you need to tie into the stock fuel systemlike at the stock filter.