VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => Upgrades (non engine related ) => Topic started by: 8v-of-fury on September 29, 2011, 11:41:56 pm
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I have 1998 TDI calipers, that have nice big vented disks with them and i was wondering if i could use them on my 84 by chance?? The car I got them off I still have available, so the carriers would be gettable..
Will it work or whuuut lol
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you would require 16v rocco or audi 4000 quattro brake caliper carriers to have a direct bolt on..
the bolt holes holding the carrier to the hub is different... and why the issue... and no i do not beleive in trying to fit mk3 spindles to a mk1.. even though there is lots that say it works.. but gotta mod ball joints and crap to do it..
now i have not tried #2 option... jman's corrado 11" adapter.. its designed to change this bolt pattern.. so the corrado carrier for 11" can be fitted.. now since this carrier for the 10.1" and 11" are the differance.. id assume the tdi carrier will bolt right to it allowing for a 10.1" 88-99.5 to be a direct fit... something i did not test when i put the 11" on my toaster.. the 11" are direct swaps on the mk3 cars..
so if you cannot find the 16v or quattro carriers.. IMO best bang for buck... tons of 4kq in yards/parting with very few knowing they direct fit on a mk1.. should be easy to find IMO..
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I did jmans adapters
corrado brakes and new brembo disc ,16 v spindles,100 mm axles
I powdercoated the spindles before installing the new bearings and hubs
complete s/s brake lines, front and rear
you will need a 22.5 master and a mkii pedal assy to attach to the master cylinder
front brake lines from a later cabby or mk1 autohaus can make you what you need
stops on a dime, really overkill...
GB
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You dont need a MKII pedal assy. One from a cabby or a scirocco 85> will work just fine. Plus it bolts in and a MKII assy will not just bolt in.
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the stock master will work just fine unless he does rear disks.. then the pedal gets closer to the floor and with properly adjusted handbrake will even work..
the roddo 11" is overkill... at least IMO not sutable for rain/snow as they lock up way too easy, this in my toaster.. and getting moving is just as much fun.. not had in snow and no way plan too either...
the 10.1" is a little sketchy IMO for rain.. ran them way too long on a mk1.. that car (84 coupe now, started off in rot box 82 coupe) with the 10.1 ive ran since 94 with rear disks and 10.1" on stock master.. all car does is slide in snow..
14" and 15" tires/wheels sucky in snow.. so rember that..
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just add in abs ;D,
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I have the 98 calipers, pads, rotors, and the brackets the calipers bolt too. And then the brackets bolt to the mk3 knuckle right?
16v rocco carriers will allow my 98 calipers to bolt to my 84's knuckles?
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I don't get the reason behind bigger brakes, sure if you got lots of hill and have to ride the brakes a lot maybe they'd be a good idea but why not just down shift?
I have vented stock size disks on my rabbit and drum in the rear and I can easily skid the front tires on dry pavement. The rears come close enough to skidding that it gets squirrely.
Unless it's the look factor in which case I understand competely ;D
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I have had the same brakes on my car for the last coming up on 5 years. The rotors just have a slight ridge to them, and the pads look as thick as when i put them in. I am "teh king" of downshifting ;)
I have the mk3 hardware i nabbed off a car i stripped, would like the larger vented rotors for when i swap the torquemonster TDI under the hood. The 9.4's ?? barely do an alright job getting in front of the anemic 1.6 n/a to slow it down from its top speeds of 140km/h :o :o :o LOL
So when the car is capable of 200+, you know for those closed course sessions, I want to be able to stop the sumbish.
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yes you need 16v rocco or 83-87 audi 4000 quattro carriers.. they bolt to the spindel/wheel bearing area and then the caliper bolts to them.. the 98 will not bolt to bearing/spindle.. holes in wrong place..
why bigger brakes.. easy.. when being dumb.. need them... as in if you can get to speed faster.. gotta stop faster too... as in doing stupid things on country back roads.. memories of piggy taking over 3 miles and 3 stop signs to catch up... is reasons why.. :P p.s. i got away with a no front plate ticket..
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yes you need 16v rocco or 83-87 audi 4000 quattro carriers.. they bolt to the spindel/wheel bearing area and then the caliper bolts to them.. the 98 will not bolt to bearing/spindle.. holes in wrong place..
why bigger brakes.. easy.. when being dumb.. need them... as in if you can get to speed faster.. gotta stop faster too... as in doing stupid things on country back roads.. memories of piggy taking over 3 miles and 3 stop signs to catch up... is reasons why.. :P p.s. i got away with a no front plate ticket..
smoke tale?
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well gasser tale.. back in 97.. before fast diesels existed.. LOL..
way home from YSUsless.. once nice afternoon in the 84 coupe.. why 97 still had 14s on it.. got the 15s in 98.. was on a set of back roads i "have fun on" and that car will pull 80-85 in 3rd much like toaster does.. :D with its old 80ff tranny and 2.0 8v i gots in it..
i blew past him at one point.. no idea where... still no clue where.. he gabbled off where and well it was close to the beginning of said back roads i was on.. :D well while sitting at 3rd stop sign i see him roll around the turn behind me say 3/4 miles back.. :D and im like.. crap.. wonder where i passed him as there never piggies out here... his blinkies still not in on..
so i roll on thru the stop sign and creep away to see if i get followed.. he finally catches up.. throws on blinkies.. so i stop.. :D
"do you know why i stopped you" ahhhh not really... "you can honestly say that" ahhh honestly maybe excessive speed?? but no idea where you saw me... " well yea you were speeding.. but you lack a front plate" :D he never clocked me.. i knew that due to radar detector never going off..
so got a toung lashing.. a coupon for no front plate.. $68 at that time.. and a commint on my audi r8 ronal style wheels on it ;)
real smoke tail... :D 79mph in 65.... my 1.6td wagon april fools morning aka 1amish out side of columbus on way back north.. 4 persons in it.. of non light weight.. say good 1000lb of beef.. back fully loaded where you can in no way see out of it.. rear bumper abt 1" off ground.. 2 state piggies... and a view on their face when no one from same zip code and so much $$ in rc crap in the back that they did not wanna deal with what they were seeing.. toung lashing and sent on way.. :D passat has 10.1" ad rear disks.. its needs them and does not have issues in crappy weather like mk1 do...
now.. so since way off topic... :P
the 82 coupe that became the 84 coupe.. started off with a 1.8 8v.. then moved up to a 1.8 10:1 8v with cam on stock fuel/ignition aka no knock sensors type of crap.. used 4 1.8s to build that.. then soon relized how unusefull the brakes were.. they would fade so bad, rember this is back in 94-95ish.. since the 82 was so rotty i did stupid things as well if i crunch it no big loss.. there were nights of running sr11 where the tops of the doors would fludder like a butterfly.. :D
the pedal would sink to the floor trying to stop from fade that i did rear disks.. then relized how much better they worked.. aka turned blue from heat.. 16v prop valves were added to prevent this a week later.. still on stock master by the way.. then to add more to the fronts.. i went up to 10.1" and honestly.. the stock master still used.. :D the big advantage.. can lock up all 4 vs a 16v rocco 22mm master set up.. yes pedal is lower to floor.. but somehow the smaller master allows more pressure.. in feb 97 i built the 84 coupe from the 82 coupe.. picked up the 84 in june 96.. it sat for a few mo till i did its build..
now with todays pads and such.. no idea how fade will be...
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I put dual piston 11" brakes on the front of my GTD. I did not change the MC. I would not downsize my brakes for anything. I love them! I did the same thing with my Vanagon (5500lbs loaded) and wouldnt go back either.
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Can I get the smaller brakes vented then? I just notice that right now with only the 52ish hp non turbo.. I can get going fast enough where a good hard stop (if needed) is kinda hectic.
I know what your thinking, he's 21, therefore he MUST drive like a douchebag. On the contrary, I drive very well and am one of the people paying extremely high insurance prices in this god forsaken province for absolutely no reason. In my 5 years of driving I have never once lost control of my vehicle in any condition, never had a traffic violation, or even come anywhere near having an accident. Explain to me why I pay the prices I do? In a year I pay almost 3 times what my car is worth, and have never had to make a claim. The day I write my car off? I'd probably get $300 and be told to go on my way.. Insurance companies can suck it..
The reason I want to upgrade the brakes is for those times when I am out alone on the roads where doing stupid stuff will only result in the loss of one life ;) Plus who doesn't want to stop better!?
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You can get 9.4"s in vented if you want.
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I think just venting the 9.4's will only help with fade and not with braking power though right?
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correct. You can put 10.1" on there with vented rotors.
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Then 10.1 I will go :) I just need to find some 16v rocco or 83-87 audi 4000 quattro carriers :D thank-you guys
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exactly.. you understand why i did big brakes way back all them years.. for silly stupid stuff when out alone.. and yep 16v rocco/audi 4kq..
i was out in the toaster sunday on a "cruize" thru cleveland parks aka 70mile ish treck thru the parks.. with lots of other vws... and the oppertunity to screw around was pretty good... 11" were impressive and with said group... i always leve room infront of me vs the tailgaters behind me.. i think i have a few wondering wtf.. how the hell does a diesel run like that.. a box turn like that.. and slow down like that...
was still running 18-21psi and with the elevation changes and twisties could upset the toaster enough to lay rubber with ease in 2nd or 3rd.. :D the rolling starts out of parking lots.. ripping free in 1st (aka not from dead stop) then into 2nd with a chirp into 3rd from the icecream stand gotta be priceless.. :o
get the rover pump... do the 02a... yes i saw the build tdi-m pump.. mine is so silly... if you goto play.. your going to break the 020... may not be right off the bat.. but it will break soon or a later.. and will be a inoppertune time when it does..
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think ill upgrade the rears to 200mm drums while I'm at it :)
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i wish i could upgrade to disks on toaster... till i build a new rear axle.. no way i can fit the wheels for such a thing.. but 200mm seems ok for now..
pm replied too... get back with me on the tech school idea if you can pull that off.. :D
for others.. 20+ years ago in high school.. my tech school had silly night classes.. say 10 weeks of 2 hours a night 2 nights a week learn to weld so on... i was filled during the day there as is.. but they had a tig/mig class at night that was not offered during normal school hours.. back then it was 50$ and hell i blew 10 weeks learning tig.. you could bring any projects from home to play with... :D
so check with your local schools.. maybe there is a place where you can build your own mounts for next to nothing.. or a cnc class to do some machine work even.. IMO well worth the knowledge.. and heck if you need to build something for your project.. maybe a way to make it reality..
me off to buy f4.. then come back for f3 race night...
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(http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=2156900&imageurl=http%3A//cardone.com/Imagesftp/14/141610-01.jpg)
Rock Auto $25 ***IN!
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http://www.momentummotorparts.com/store/newproduct.asp
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Gee-Bee! Beautiful as usual my good man!
Tad out of my price range (also as usual :( lol), but a great link to have in this thread. Thank-you :).
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if your mk1 has 1 piece caliper brackets, then it wont work. my early mk2 also had 1 piece caliper brackets, and i had to swap knuckles to swap brakes..
mk3 should be 10.1 brakes. and dont most mk1 cars have integrated knuckles/brackets?
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I think the integrated is a Westy only thing.
All three of my mk1 Jetta's (aka Wolfsburg built) have knuckles that will accept the carriers i posted above. Which will allow a 10.1 bolt on caliper.
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mk2 stared integrated...
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I put gti vented rotors on my mk1 pickup I think 7-8 years ago, changed pads 4 years ago for some not so cheaply made ones and they still have minimum 2 years left in them. With old solid rotors I had to replace pads every 1.5-2 years. Old pads from non vented rotors were reused since they were the perfect thickness for the thicker vented rotors(barely). Had no fad even after going down a two mile hill. Carrying weight (1000lbs+) still no obvious fad but stopping distance was doubled. Im planning on putting 10.1 rotors and calipers on for the extra stopping power. Just need carriers.
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Rock auto. $25!
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Rock auto. $25!
Was gonna look at that last night but got side tracked.
Btw didn't you live in redding ,ca a few years ago? I remember a vw guy I talked to there and I swear it was you.
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Rock auto. $25!
Was gonna look at that last night but got side tracked.
Btw didn't you live in redding ,ca a few years ago? I remember a vw guy I talked to there and I swear it was you.
Nope wasn't me! Only been to Florida, and didn't live there lol.
DIGGING THIS BACK UP! I still have not yet done this, and I have the TDI in there.. and I am still on 9.4" solids! OMF. I know what is needed to upgrade the fronts, but now I want to upgrade the rear as well ;)
I have access to more mk3 parts, namely a rear disk setup... Stubs, calipers (new :)), rotors and pads. Can I use mk3 stuff? I have never really paid attention when floating past all the rear disc swaps.. and now I wished I had of.
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imo.. not worth it on a mk1... 200mm rear drum set up from mk3 will add wonders and not require a master/booster swap... along with prop valves...
now to do it "right"
16v rocco prop valves.. nla.. got too else rears lock up 1st... been here on this on my 84...
calipers from 85-87.. 88-99.5 moves where the hand brake cable goes... no idea if rocco will work
16v rocco cables if you paid attention to above on calipers
master, booster, pedals from car with 22mm master, say 16v rocco for most direct fit.. $$$$$$$
the stock master, unless handbrake adjusted to 2-3 clicks will have no pedal... then very very low and takes less pressure to lock them up vs how a 22mm set up does.. how i have my 84... but any snow or good rain in cold.. i slide to stop...
my 84 coupe has 10.1" front set up.. rear disks...
my kubvan has 11" fronts, 200mm rears... stops just as well as the 84... but no pedal issues due to lack of rear disks.. no issues of pre locking up like rear disks do... stock crappy westy master/booster/pedals...
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I have access to more mk3 parts, namely a rear disk setup... Stubs, calipers (new :)), rotors and pads. Can I use mk3 stuff? I have never really paid attention when floating past all the rear disc swaps.. and now I wished I had of.
Yes, assuming you US guys have a standard 4 bolt stub on the the MK1s rear
you'd also be best off upgrading to the servo and MC of the MK3 if you can. it only requires cutting the ball end off the servo and putting a thread on (for us, again may be different on the LHD brake setup) but definitely a worthwhile brake upgrade
Fronts can be done with Vauxhall 280mm callipers and shoulder bolts, or G60 callipers with adapters
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I have access to more mk3 parts, namely a rear disk setup... Stubs, calipers (new :)), rotors and pads. Can I use mk3 stuff? I have never really paid attention when floating past all the rear disc swaps.. and now I wished I had of.
Yes, assuming you US guys have a standard 4 bolt stub on the the MK1s rear
you'd also be best off upgrading to the servo and MC of the MK3 if you can. it only requires cutting the ball end off the servo and putting a thread on (for us, again may be different on the LHD brake setup) but definitely a worthwhile brake upgrade
Fronts can be done with Vauxhall 280mm callipers and shoulder bolts, or G60 callipers with adapters
Right, I have the complete 10.1 MK3 fronts already and am looking to get them on as well just need Rocco caliper brackets. One piece at a time now, it is my daily driver after all ;).
I have read of people not needing to upgrade the masters or the prop valve.. quite a few actually.
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you do not have to beleive me... just saying what ive found on my 82 then into 84 coupe... did it back in 94 pre internet.. so gotta do it all mistakes 1st hand...
fyi.. those g60 adapters for 11" fronts on a mk1 would allow you to use the brackets from the mk3 for 10.1" basically they convert the bolt pattern on the steering knuckle... just make sure to remove all paint/rust where things meet up... else they come loose.. people blame no loctite... i blame too much paint.. works them free... and mine had way too much paint...
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I will not be needing 11" :o lol. That's nuuts. I have the 10.1's already, so it is what I will be using.
APPARENTLY from my readings of other personal experience accounts, the lock up and master issue is only when upgrading the rear end only. If you upgrade the front as well, then there is no need to change the prop valve. This is what I gather from my readings. Not saying I don't trust your word, but many others have done it with no swap in parts and no ill effect eh?
From what it seems the mk3 rear stub will bolt right on to my axle and then I can use mk2 golf cables to make it all work. Interesting. It's going for scrap, So I could grab the master as well if I decide to go all out.
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was saying get g60 adapters to use the 10.1" mk3 parts... the adapter changes the mk1 bolt pattern into a mk2/mk3 bolt pattern.. to attach the caliper carrier..
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OH! $$?
The rocco brackets are $23 ea. through Rock Auto.