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Engine Specific Info and Questions => TDI Engine -General Info => Topic started by: VWAudi on September 11, 2004, 04:54:31 am
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can I use a four gear tranny mk1-2 on a TDI engine ?
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I have repeatedly read that all water-cooled VW inline 4-cylinder engines use the same bolt pattern, so the engine should bolt up fine. Plan to use the flywheel and clutch that came with the tranny, though. I'm told that VW used several different clutch engagement setups over the years, so you want the one that went with the tranny.
To encourage you, I know several TDIs have been transplanted into Mk1 and Mk2 Caddys, Golfs and Rabbits, and all report that the engine to trans and engine to chassis part was a "drop in". (The wiring was more challenging, but is very do-able.)
If you do this, we'd all appreciate detailed progress reports. :D
Cheers! Stan
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OUI
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you can but....
you can't have good ratio with this gear box!
the tdi have a beter hp at 4000 tr/min ( slower than all engine originaly fitted on mk1 mk2)
second, the tdi have more torque than all this engine fitted with the 4 speed.the gearbox will not be able to receive the torque.
fit a 02a gearbox is not too hard!!
try to do it, it will be better for the car.
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Caddy- has anyone come up with an easy way to deal with the hydro (hydraulique) clutch from the 02A? Or can you adapt the cable clutch to the O2A... I'm still a little fuzzy on this part. It seems that most enthusiasts prefer the cable clutch.
Thanks!
Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
00 Camaro L36 M49
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Caddy- has anyone come up with an easy way to deal with the hydro (hydraulique) clutch from the 02A? Or can you adapt the cable clutch to the O2A... I'm still a little fuzzy on this part. It seems that most enthusiasts prefer the cable clutch.
Thanks!
Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
00 Camaro L36 M49
yes you can fit a cable systeme on the 02A, it come from a passat g60 '91.
that is the setup on my old caddy with the tdi.
for the speedometre you can use a passat cable too.
a link to a french forum who talk about it :
http://www.golfoo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16408&highlight=
in this link you can found picture and references...
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can I use a four gear tranny mk1-2 on a TDI engine ?
You can, but it's not the best idea.
As mentioned, the TDI produces a whole lot more torque than any A1/A2 engine. If you stay near stock tune with it, a 16V or A3 ABA 020 would work. Look for codes AMC, CHE or DFQ. And you might want a VW Motorsports ring and pinion set with that as well. They make a 16V/2.0L ring and pinion set that is 3.32:1. That would work with the TDI engine.
But really, you would be better with an 02A setup. There's always cable clutch kits on eBay for using those transmissions in an A1 chassis. Mounts are available, too.
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I have the conversion pieces for the 02a tranny, cable and actuator.....sorry no cable holder bracket...email me if you're interested
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You can, but it's not the best idea.
Yeah, what he said.
I have an FF 020 box in my TDI, with a 3.42 R&P.
I have 65,000 kms on it now, without blowing it up.
Just keep in mind something has to give when you're running a high-torque TDI engine. Either the tires will spin, the clutch will slip, or the tranny will go boom.
So far, I've only had the first two.
Since the conversion parts are easily available, I'd recommend the 02A from the A3/B4 body style. 3.16R&P.
To build an 020 that will take the torque, it would be cheaper just to locate an appropriate 02A/02J.
-Dave
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And you might want a VW Motorsports ring and pinion set with that as well. They make a 16V/2.0L ring and pinion set that is 3.32:1. That would work with the TDI engine.
I'd like to buy one of these. Anybody know where I can get one?
TIA, Stan
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I use an 020 in my Rabbit GTI. I've had it in there for about 2.5 years or whatever. It makes 200hp/229ft/lbs to the wheels. It may blow up someday, but when transmissions are close to free it hardly seems like it's worthwhile to swap to an O2A. There is little difference in strength between any of the 020 gear boxes regardless of input shaft size. Most noteable may be that early transmissions had softer gears which aren't as long wearing, but logic would say that they would be less prone to breakage. In my experience I've found the early gearboxes such as the FF to break much more easily. A lot of the O2A transmission seem to exhibit syncro problems. I hear of stock VR6's with shattered second gears. If you want to go cable shift you really ought to consider an O2J from a Mk4. It's essentially the same as the O2A but they redesigned the synchros as of 2001 to solve the second gear problems. If you get the right TDI box it also has the 100mm flanges which will bolt up to Scirocco 16v axles so it will fit right in the A1 chassis. Be sure to get the steering knuckles as well. You could grind yours out as well, but the later ones were clearanced for the larger cv joints. It's best to use the G60/Passat 16v flywheel so you can retain the 228mm clutch. The shifting components are a bit different, but the O2A shiftbox on the transmission actually is a little better because it limits engagement ring travel whereas the O2J does not.
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And you might want a VW Motorsports ring and pinion set with that as well. They make a 16V/2.0L ring and pinion set that is 3.32:1. That would work with the TDI engine.
I'd like to buy one of these. Anybody know where I can get one?
TIA, Stan
(http://www.autotech.com/catimages/02a_r_p.gif)
$795, Autotech (http://www.autotech.com/catalog/trangear.htm)
-Dave
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Ouch! But a sweet piece... :twisted:
Thanks Dave! :D
Edit: Actually, it looks like the low ratio won't fit my car after all. I have an '84 GTI that I'm converting to TD power. The '84 has a 020 tranny, right? If so, the lowest ratio they offer is 4.20:1. That won't do me any good.
Anybody got any ideas about lowering the final drive ratio in the GTI?
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Edit: Actually, it looks like the low ratio won't fit my car after all. I have an '84 GTI that I'm converting to TD power. The '84 has a 020 tranny, right? If so, the lowest ratio they offer is 4.20:1. That won't do me any good.
Anybody got any ideas about lowering the final drive ratio in the GTI?
The GTI has an 020. It's a 3.94 R&P (4K/2H box). What sort of ratio are you looking for?
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Ouch! But a sweet piece... :twisted:
Thanks Dave! :D
Edit: Actually, it looks like the low ratio won't fit my car after all. I have an '84 GTI that I'm converting to TD power. The '84 has a 020 tranny, right? If so, the lowest ratio they offer is 4.20:1. That won't do me any good.
Anybody got any ideas about lowering the final drive ratio in the GTI?
There are a lot of ratios to choose from... but the lowest ratios you could put together using factory gears in an 020 tranny's would be the 3.67 R&P (from an A3-chassis era car) and a .71 fifth-1st gear set from an "FF" A1 tranny (which originally comes with a 3.89 R&P, FWIW.) Don't go lower than you need though for a racer... low gearing is great for a street driver but not for a racer (as I'm sure you know!) :wink:
PS - your '84 GTI originally came with a "4K" transmission. 3.94 R&P with close-ratio 1st-5th. It's what I use for my autocrosser (with a torsen LSD! :twisted:) I end up going into 3rd quite a bit when I'm racing, but never have yet hit 4th or 5th gear during a run.
PPS - the "4K" transmission has a factory slip-rings behind the differential output rings to provide a minimum of factory limited slip action. If your race class doesn't allow limited slips to be used, but allows you to use this case, recommend using it and planning on replacing the brass slip cone things often during the race season to keep them working. It's a trick that the stock-class A1/A2 VW Autocrossers used to gain a little bit of an edge. The earlier 020 transmissions didn't have the brass slip rings and the design of the case was different so they couldn't be retrofitted either... There are aftermarket upgrade kits that beef up the brass friction cones and springs holding tension against them... Good on "peloquin 80% LSD kit". If that is legal, it would be an improvement over the stock shims and springs, but not as good as a real torsen LSD like quaiffe and peloquin also offers.
Finally... this thread from the old board has some discussion on flywheels, LSDs, and tranny ratios you might find some useful information in it:
http://www.hostboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4037&t=40
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Thanks for the info, guys. I'm at work and can't access the Hostboard site, but will follow up later from home. And because I'm at work, I don't have all the data at my finger tips to tell you just what ratios I can use best. I will be racing the GTI mainly at Thunderhill (www.thunderhill.com), with a main straight of nearly 3/4 mile.
My Datsun 510 can get to about 105 mph there with a 4:10 rear and 1:1 top gear on 13" 195R60 tires. The GTI has 195R60 tires on the stock 14" "Snowflakes". I am looking for about 100 mph top speed. Using this RPM/Speed Calculator (http://www.nwlink.com/~vdb/vw/Transmission/speed-ratio.html) with the GTI's stock ratios, I get 5000 RPM.
Actually, that looks about right! :twisted:
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Using this RPM/Speed Calculator (http://www.nwlink.com/~vdb/vw/Transmission/speed-ratio.html) with the GTI's stock ratios, I get 5000 RPM.
Wow. I actually wrote the code for that calculator back in 1997.
It's amazing how things propogate on the internet.
-Dave
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Well done, Dave! :D
What do they say? Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, or is it plagerism...? :wink: