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Engine Specific Info and Questions => TDI Engine -General Info => Topic started by: Jetmugg on October 12, 2013, 01:34:36 pm
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Hi, guys and gals:
I haven't been on the TDI forum much, spending most of my time on the IDI forum. I have built a 1984 Dodge Rampage that is set up for land speed racing, using a 1.5L VW turbodiesel for power. For any interested parties, here are a couple of links (one to my build diary for the truck, and a second one which is a Youtube video of the truck on a chassis dyno).
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,10625.0.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NYikOly9S0
Since we are basically in the "off" season for land speed racing, I have plenty of time to daydream before next year's season kicks off in Wilmington, Ohio, then Bonneville.
What I'm dreaming about is along the lines of what it would take to build a TDI-based engine to compete in the 1.5 - 2.0 Liter Diesel Truck Class.
I'm asking you for any and all ideas about what you might suggest to build an engine that would be in this class (1.5 - 2.0 L displacement).
What would you suggest as a basis for a build? Which block, which head, which turbo, which pump, cam, pistons, etc?
At this point, I'm just trying to gain as much knowledge as possible, and welcome all ideas.
I have spoken to members of the current recordholder's team. For reference, the current record for G/DT (2.0 L Diesel Truck) is 129.7 mph, and was set using an AAZ based engine in a Dodge D50 pickup. They hurt the engine in this little truck many years ago, and it has been sitting ever since. The original owner of the truck passed away in the meantime, and there has been no push to get it back onto the salt.
Please - let the ideas fly.
Thank You,
Steve.
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ill shoot you a pm on the 2.0 idi dream of mine....
but 2.0 16v 9a block, rods, pistons..
for now im playing with a 1.6 style head.. but a 1.9 could be used..
head gasket will be a combo of aaz metal and 2.0 gasser.. the shim between the metal layers can be swapped.. to play with compression vs piston heights.. gasser does not protrude as much as diesel..
aaz oil pump, vac pump, and im shaft so clear the crank swing of the 2.0... gasser pieces turn wrong direction.. kinda sad as if you can use stock parts it would have a vac pump delete..
why/how.. ill explain in pm.. but i have discussed this idea.. just not tested yet as the 9a set up needs im shaft bearings.. and a car to tuck it in for testing.. :P
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ALH, done up to the nines. Heavy porting, big valves, the best manifolds, HUGE injectors, big tune, big turbo- lotsa flow at moderate psi.
H-rods, ceramic coated factory pistons, Stage 3 or 4 colt cam, factory E-pump done by dieselmeken or giles with an 11mm or 12mm head put in.
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why??
these engines were built to pull high rpm in old superv applications... they lacked beam rods and such... a stock 16v revs more then diesel can burn... so to clean up the stock bottom end parts should be all thats needed...
his holding power will be rpm and gearing... unlike the 1.5 he will have more torque to pull a better gear set... which is what he will need to accomplish..
i think a 9a bottom end on his current set up is cake and give his goal.. i do not see him getting more rpm from it as is... but stouter gear set with torque to pull it.. ok.. he in the running..
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2.0 CR 16v engine.
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Ultimately yeah CR. Or the early pd's. I suggested alh for ease.
Chris your idea sounds like way more work than worth haha.
Yeah sure the stock 9a is good to that, but what about the heavier diesel rods and heavier diesel pistons? Thats what breaks you on top rpm. Rotating mass.
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Id do an alh with big valves big turbo and possibly a zoltan kiss pump. There are some huge hp tdis in finnland like 300+hp. If be checking what theyre doing
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If you are going big huge power I would skip the h beam rods and go for the x beam.
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::) ok if you got huge budgets... i still think the 9a idi will pull 120.. this just being a block swap to what he already has...
16v diesels an such.. ya ok.. dreams are dreams... like winning lotto..
a 150 hp diesel will run like a 300hp one over 3 miles.. flat out... does not matter how fast it gets thee per say... getting to 125 in 1 mile vs 2 does not matter... the ability to get the rpm vs gear ratio to the speed seeked is goal..
now can you do more crazy gearing with 300hp.. yes... but hell.. him adding a 250$ 9a to his current set up.. an if it even came close to 127mph... hell.. id laugh at those who spent their lotto winnings..
he has 150+hp on a 1.5 idi... a bump to 2.0 should put him well around the 200 point with the rest of his goodies.. add in the torque increase... he will be doing a 02a swap next for tdi gearing.. if e can wind that out... i can see good times
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The current 1.5L Diesel Truck record is roughly 106 mph. I feel confident that I can be competitive against that record.
The current 2.0L Diesel Truck record is roughly 130 mph. The guys who set it used a "tuned to the moon" AAZ. I'm pretty sure they melted the engine down on their last run. I don't have any confidence about being competitive against that record, that's why I'm asking.
I am open to all ideas for building enough power to beat 130 mph. I have no illusion that it will be easy - just looking for good ideas to make that kind of power (I'm guessing somewhere on the high side of 220 HP will be required). The vehicle has to cover 3 miles at essentially full throttle to be competitive. Big torque down low is fine, but the gearing and tire size choices are somewhat limited, so this engine will have to spin a bunch of RPM's to get the job done.
I don't have really deep pockets, either. I would much rather use as many OEM parts as possible, especially if they have been proven to work in higher HP applications.
I guess I need to spend some time with the O2A transmission chart to see what the "tallest" readily available transmission will provide in terms of rpms vs speed.
Steve.
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Regardless of what you end up using, I would do everything I could to make it rev--balance everything, knife-edge the crank, shave the IM shaft (if it has one); I would shoot for a sustained 7000rpm motor. Talk to the pump masters to see if that's even possible, but I think it must be--I've read about Gale Banks wanting to raise the rpm ceiling of diesels, and I seem to recall he was wanting to go higher than that. It might take a common rail setup to get there, but even so...
IDI is better for revving higher just from the combustion characteristics, but from what I understand, past a certain point the precup inserts are just too small for all the fuel being forced through them--you might want to see if anyone has retrofitted larger inserts for these engines.
The basic problem I foresee is that you're just not going to be able to get a tall enough trans to make a torque build work for those speeds, outside of a custom gear set. But I could be wrong--I'm certainly no trans expert.
But, regardless of what you do, read up on every post that Aki-76, TurboJ, and Alcaid (and of course the others on this site who have been pathfinders in making insane HP; I can't remember them all off the top of my head) have ever graced the forum with, and then send them messages personally asking for their opinion.
Are you allowed to use any other fuel than diesel (specifically thinking propane here)?
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you can fit larger swirl chambers it takes machining obviously, andy2 used gm diesel swirl chambers in an aaz he built, and lucas's monster 1.6 has modified swirl chambers with larger oulets, i have also been told by the hungarian pump builder that bigger power requires bigger swirl chamber oulets, its as important as bigger valves/porting.
but i still think i'd go tdi route on this one, its going to be less problematic since you're going to need to sustain some pretty serious power levels for a long time to do over 130mph.
honestly to do it with a tdi, it's going to take a similar recipe as what you built with your 1.5 idi.
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I like Crsmp idea. You have a year to try it and as is cheap to try. If it doesn't work out then I would buy my 1.6 and try or at least use the head on an aaz. I would stay away from TDI as they make most of their power under 4,000 rpm...which won't get a record unless you buy a custom 6 speed
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I have already been thinking about your 1.6TD, and what kind of vehicle I might want to put it in. Unfortunately, I can't think of anything that would make sense for me. I already have a couple of nice dialy driver diesels (Ram 2500 and Mercedes 190D 2.5 Turbo). If I can convince a friend that your 98% complete project is a good idea, I'd be happy to come get it and give it a new home.
I need to get back up to the local Pick-N-Pull. I know there was a 2.0 VW 4-banger in there, but at the time, that kind of thing wasn't even on my radar screen. I already have a spare AAZ head that I want to have some serious porting done on.
I think I could come up with an even bigger injection pump, and a bigger turbo.
Can anyone provide an example of a running 2.0 9a / diesel engine? In concept it sounds plausible, but if it's never been done, that seems like a stretch.
Steve.
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Crsmp has been involved in a gasser to diesel. It will run the issue is how well how long. I would say for 100.00 at your pick and pull test it yourself with your spare stuff. You will need the aaz vac pump and I'm shaft.
With my engine it is up and going again. Runs good. If you want it for the price I have I will throw in every extra part I have for it except the 02a. That can be a spare for my daily. 7a trans 14 spare rims snow tires core support front lip tin and spoiler small rear bumper...I would just like to dyno it before it leaves or know it would be.
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That's a smokin' deal - I'll see if I can help find a deserving and willing buyer.
Steve.
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i have also thought about making 2042cc idi engine based on gasser block. My plan was to use pistons from Euro Ford 1.8TD engine. Compared to AAZ ones, those are very similar, only 3mm larger in diameter.
AAZ piston
https://onlineshop.ms-motor-service.com/msi/MSICD?lang=E&page=showKODetail&ksnr=91429600 (https://onlineshop.ms-motor-service.com/msi/MSICD?lang=E&page=showKODetail&ksnr=91429600)
Ford Escort 1,8TD piston
https://onlineshop.ms-motor-service.com/msi/MSICD?lang=E&page=showKODetail&ksnr=94664602 (https://onlineshop.ms-motor-service.com/msi/MSICD?lang=E&page=showKODetail&ksnr=94664602)
When using AAZ rods, those pistons would be direct fit into 236mm height gasser block. Piston protursion and compression ratio would be about the same as AAZ.
Eventually I did still use 1Y block, because block deck seemed alot weaker. Gasser blocks use 11mm head bolts. When compared to diesel block, head bolt holes were also a lot shallower and there was less metal around them.
Early 1,6D blocks with 11mm head bolts had tendency for cracking. I think, with increaced displacement and higher power levels, this problem would get horribly worse.
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i think 11mm head studs all thats needed.. but my history of 11mm 1.6 is easy.. if its never been real hot, no prob.. but if you cooked it hot enough to damage the head gasket it had 50% chance to crack.. and if head warps.. it will crack on head reinstall...
the problem... unlike 80-88ish.. no history now... those ones i know of with good history.. no issues.. my 11mm block ive used since 90... the one in storage.. in use since mid 90s with over bore and all..
the thing with the 9a block.. short rods/1.6 block height.. forged pistons.. they make them... but not real common... 2.0 16v lost value due to 1.8t.. finding a passat or 16v with broken timming belt.. head scrap.. block good... :D poof.. bottom end cheap..
now if you can find a set of pistons for the aba taller like aaz block.. sweet... we would have block sources for ever...
but then which will rev better... the short one...
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Unfortunately, 2042 cc's is just a bit too big for this class.
I see that JE pistons makes forged slugs for the 9a application. About $600 per set. Not outlandish, but not exactly on a budget, either.
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but i think the stock 9a pistons/rods will work... :) not like your dumping propain/nos on it..
if you were not so far away... we would slip some intermediate shaft berings in mine... loan it to ya to bolt your stuff to.. hit dyno on the "stock non rebuilt bottom end" and see what it does... came out of running car that did not have oil, temp or burning issues... but i went to swap im shafts and found the im bearings falling apart like they do..
then if you see a wow.. and i can still do more.. then tear down, knife edge, balance so on...
but honestly.. so simple to test.. then you can work on piston to designs and such..
why i wanna get it just running before any real $ spent..
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I found a local guy with an almost complete 9a bottom end available cheap. However, he doesn't have the crankshaft. Will an ABA crank work?
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honestly, not positive if they are due to block height differance... id think they are... but need to double check..
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as long as the aba has the same stroke it will work, block height differences would be made up for by rod length or wrist pin location in the piston
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This type of conversion looks like a possibility, and I'm going to get some parts from a local guy to start mocking it up.
Back to TDI content - what do you guys think about the possibility of an MTDI based on an ALH engine, ported head, high-rev valvetrain, big turbo, and a PD130/150 style intake?
Steve.
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I think its a great option. You may even be able to use some sort of pd bottom end w/ the alh head on it for better strength. Don't ask about mtdi on tdiclub though. The rover pump bolts right on to the alh. look at vanbcguy's thread.
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I think to have the TDI torque down low you will need a trans with a gear so tall it would be impossible. If you are worried about the 1.5 being able to pull at the high rpm then I would be worried about the TDI more. My TDI actually pulls better at 2,000 rpm than at 4,500 rpm. So you would need a trans that is almost 2x as tall to get it where it pulls best...these are generic figures to illustrate as you would not need a trans quite that tall but I think you will want the idi diesel rev range is the point.
if you have a aaz and it hits peak torque at 4,000 rpm or so it would be more suited for what you want. Also why I think the possible idea of the 9a 2.0 is a great idea if it works
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i think tdi with proper porting, manifolds, and turbos can make high rpm hp. much like a 1.6td you can't compare stock performance with tiny turbo, tiny valves, and crappy stock cast ports to a modified engine. higher rpm power has definitely been done, look to scandinavia, and thats the best way to make power, just like there is no replacement for displacement there is no replacement for higher revs, ur moving way more air so you're going to make more power to a point.
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i think tdi with proper porting, manifolds, and turbos can make high rpm hp. much like a 1.6td you can't compare stock performance with tiny turbo, tiny valves, and crappy stock cast ports to a modified engine. higher rpm power has definitely been done, look to scandinavia, and thats the best way to make power, just like there is no replacement for displacement there is no replacement for higher revs, ur moving way more air so you're going to make more power to a point.
Thats what happens when you have winter for 9months a year.
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I think to have the TDI torque down low you will need a trans with a gear so tall it would be impossible. If you are worried about the 1.5 being able to pull at the high rpm then I would be worried about the TDI more. My TDI actually pulls better at 2,000 rpm than at 4,500 rpm. So you would need a trans that is almost 2x as tall to get it where it pulls best...these are generic figures to illustrate as you would not need a trans quite that tall but I think you will want the idi diesel rev range is the point.
if you have a aaz and it hits peak torque at 4,000 rpm or so it would be more suited for what you want. Also why I think the possible idea of the 9a 2.0 is a great idea if it works
...or, I could just run on 43" tall tires. :)
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ive had my square box has past your 1.5 speed goal... stock landy pump/wgov mod, stock turbo, 18~21psi fmic, 2.5" straight pipe... cam, turbo and pump work would make it more silly then i feel it already is.
mine will also pull till it no longer breaths.. stock 98 tdi tranny, 3rd gear, 195-50 15 kuhmo's will pull 78mph in 3rd... math says past 6k on rpm..
if it were not the wind picking up and both doors were open.. i bet it would have done more.. and i rolled (between 1-2 miles) into that speed and was not foot to floor yet.. in 5th from 70... its was a nice day.. nice road.. nice tunes.. gps on dash... and a why not
a real turbo.. a not box of wind.. i see no reason it would not be close... why i really think a bottom end change on your current stuff will do it.. :P or be close enough to say ha.. i did it for cheap.. now need lots of $ for that last mph..
be carefull on tdi head porting.. lots of rumors on how to ruin it.. but yes a tdi-m in stock form is impressive as its strong imo vs a same tdi e set up... aka swap pumps and gain more then seat of pants hp..
i have never gov modded any of my 1.6.. or even intercooled them.. but my tdi-m imo feels better then most stock vr6... will keep up with a stock 2.0 16v jetta... it really is a impressive wow you mean its a diesel to others who have went for a ride..
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I think to have the TDI torque down low you will need a trans with a gear so tall it would be impossible. If you are worried about the 1.5 being able to pull at the high rpm then I would be worried about the TDI more. My TDI actually pulls better at 2,000 rpm than at 4,500 rpm. So you would need a trans that is almost 2x as tall to get it where it pulls best...these are generic figures to illustrate as you would not need a trans quite that tall but I think you will want the idi diesel rev range is the point.
if you have a aaz and it hits peak torque at 4,000 rpm or so it would be more suited for what you want. Also why I think the possible idea of the 9a 2.0 is a great idea if it works
...or, I could just run on 43" tall tires. :)
you would never set a record at 2k, but it'd be interesting to watch someone try.
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I have heard of the torque killing salt flats and think the better reving engine with equal power will be your best bet. Put a gov modded landy pump on an aaz and see what you do. Or try the same setup on an alh. If you build a TDI like that 10.7 second one great, but I don't know if getting up to speed is as important as maintaining the speed. The higher rpm torque is in theory what is needed. If the 10 second TDI could maintain that speed over 3 miles then obviously it is the way to do it. I just don't think it would be as easy as with an idi diesel. I would love to be wrong though.
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I'm not familiar with a 10.7 second TDI, although it sounds like it's very quick for a 2 liter diesel. I'll have to do a little searching.
You are right, this is not a drag race. It's not about elapsed time, it's about coming to equilibrium between power at any given speed, and the combined drag trying to hold the vehicle back at that speed. As long as you can apply power in excess of the drag, you will continue to go faster. When the drag equals or exceeds the available power at any point, you have reached your terminal velocity.
Budget-wise, if this 9a bottom end deal would work out, it might be the cheapest way to have a go at the 2.0 record.
If the budget went out the window (i.e. winning the lottery tomorrow), then all kinds of options open up.
Steve.
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I didn't watch the video it may have been 11 second, but it was the Pakistan member on here that posted it. It is definitely impressive but this is not a sprint. I know Crsmp box on wheels pulls well but you can feel it tapering off in the end of the rpm. I have ridden in it and yes it is still pulling but not ad hard as it does off bottom. Could be turbo could be head could be the nature of the TDI. The sad part is no one will know until it is tried.
I don't care which way you go as long as you try it. This is awesome even thinking about it.
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Dreaming doesn't cost a thing. Right now, I'm thinking that when I go to Bonneville next August, I'll be taking at least 2 engines, and 3 or more transaxles.
I have a spare AAZ head (bare) that I'm thinking about either porting myself, or having someone who knows what they are doing perform some porting on. I could then transfer my existing valvetrain to the ported head.
I have a couple of local guys with 9a parts, and think I'll hit the junkyard on Sunday morning to scope out any more possibilities.
Steve.
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take to pm and discuss theman's head with him...
1/4 mile = gear ratio to get you to end the fastest..... 3 mile = gear ratio to make you go max speed... huge differance in goals.............
a 10 speed sequintal box mated to a 1.5na that shifted so fast.. would do a 1/4 mile in 10 sec... but cost prohibited... why big hp with smaller gears costs less...
it a balancing act...
lucas i know my turbo its restriction... it will pull much more with a old set up.. tdi turbo = joke... but for how ive abused it.. kinda impressive too..
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I think to have the TDI torque down low you will need a trans with a gear so tall it would be impossible. If you are worried about the 1.5 being able to pull at the high rpm then I would be worried about the TDI more. My TDI actually pulls better at 2,000 rpm than at 4,500 rpm. So you would need a trans that is almost 2x as tall to get it where it pulls best.
The TDI has torque down low because of its injection, displacement, turbo and head differences over the 1.6/1.9 idi's. Not solely because it is Direct Injected. I have two 1.9's here for quantification, both installed in mk1's with similar transmissions. Both TDI and IDI 1.9L with the smaller GT-15 and K03 respectively, perform identically. Obviously I have more fuel with my 11mm DI over my brothers 9mm IDI, but the performace ie. torque curve and peak feel identical, other than amount of power available.
SO, Lucas. Whatever you have done to your 1.6 IDI would be EXTREMELY more awesome when done to a 1.9L DI engine... they are similar engines, their differences lie in the ability to burn fuel quicker and better with the DI which results in more power delivery.
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I will bite...
Show me some dyno sheets to prove it. They don't have to be your dyno sheets but any from a TDI explaining what you stated.
Every TDI dyno no matter who tunes or what turbo it has had peak HP at a lower rpm than what the idi's I have seen. It is easy to find a TDI dyno. this is the only AAZ dyno I have found. look at the end of it to find the graphs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKXXVIsEtWo
I think just as you do about some of this, the TDI is more efficient and can deliver more power, but for this we are not talking about power, drag race, and efficiency. It is about where the power curve is in the RPM range vs air/land/tire drag, drivetrain loss, etc. So the terminal velocity so to speak of where the engine makes power vs all it is up against. If you build a TDI that has peak power of 300hp at 3,600 rpm and 250hp at 4,400rpm or an IDI that makes 250hp peak at 4,600rpm ...same trans/car etc I think the IDI would have the advantage even though the TDI is making 50hp more. I could be wrong, but then again the record is set right now with an AAZ so I may not be.
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An AAZ and AHU will have a similar torque curve if both are fitted with K03/GT15 because those turbos are too small and become a significant exhaust restriction by 3500 rpms even at stock boost pressures of 8-10psi. If fitted with a more reasonable turbo, the AAZ will continue to pull higher in the rpms than an AHU will.
Power wins the race. Torque = Power X RPM. TDIs make more torque lower in the rpms than IDIs. IDIs make more torque in higher rpms after the torque has dropped off in the TDIs due to combustion properties. Because of the prior equation, an engine that makes more torque at higher rpms will result in more power.
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Yes, by definition, more torque at higher rpm's is desirable. In general, the LSR guys are looking for power at elevated rpms, as opposed to "stump pullers" at lower rpms. Overall final drive gearing and tire diameter are often limiting factors.
Given a choice between a taller gearset with smaller tires, or a lower gearset with taller tires, the tall gears/short tires typically win out.
I know that for my current configuration, I spent a lot of time with a spreadsheet, calculating final drive ratios, tire sizes, and engine rpm's that suggested what I thought would be a workable rpm range.
Stepping up to the 2-liter diesel truck class means a jump in the record from 106 mph to 130 mph. I'd like to use the same tires, so that is probably going to mean a taller overall top gear.
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Is the TDI not at this time in the world still the one making quite a bit more power reliably?
Are we at the stage where the idi is capable of making the same power levels as reliably without precup destruction??
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Like from a real world standing viewpoint. Not max power and not all theoretically on paper.
Real world stuff. Which one wins?
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I'm not looking to build a daily driver/reliability/long lasting engine.
All I can say is that the current recordholder in the G/DT class (2-liter Diesel Truck) used an AAZ in a Dodge D-50 pickup.
This was not a daily driver vehicle - it was built for the purpose of setting a land speed record for this class.
The record was set in the real world, at Wendover, Utah.
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Oh no I agree. Not a daily.. but will it make the 3 miles wot oushing that power??
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Like from a real world standing viewpoint. Not max power and not all theoretically on paper.
Real world stuff. Which one wins?
tdi wins in my opinion. but i think they are both more capable in each others territories if modded properly. i think a tdi can certainly make upper rpm power... maybe it takes a reshaping of the swirl in the intake port, or the proper combo of injectors/pump, and i think its possible that idi can make great power if the precups are modded to be moving more fuel, like lucas has had done on his 1.6 build. i think that expecting precups designed to make 70 crank hp to make anything close to 200whp is asking alot... so its not such a surprise that they fail.
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again, show me the dyno slip that says it makes the upper rpm power. I have looked at probably 20 with different tunes, turbos, and TDI engines, but all of them have a lower rpm PEAK HP. I never stated that the IDI would win in peak hp, just that it would have its power further up the RPM range.
Also if I did the same mods to a TDI I bet it would run like crap. There is so much porting in my head I think it would not run right as a TDI.
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When mated to a much lower geared 02A or 02J the lower peak hp wouldnt matter much.
I watched a youtube video of a guy with a bone stock AFN installed into a mk1. He was easily accelerating above 100mph on the autobahn while dealing with traffic , ie. Quickly accelerating. 110hp? Was easily encroaching on the 130mph mark. A few fueling mods? I am confident a tdi with the same power as the op's original 1.5 140hp would reach that goal. It would easily do it with 175hp. 175 is nothing these days to get on these engines.
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roflao... been banned too long... so i guess what is getting said is buy any new tdi up to 2.0 and it will exceed the top speed record... with a chip/tune?? wow sounds simple.. lets see you do it.. its easy peasey... just but one.. drop t in a mk1... it will do it...
id say 130 is pretty much on the nuts edge of gear ratios that can be obtained with enough rpm to do it.. else there would be lots of people able to freeken do it...
so now its think outside the box for the .5mph seeked to break it... as others have gotten to a point not surpased yet..
it is not how fast you can do a 1/4 mile .. its you got 3 miles to do this...
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Resurrecting an old thread with updates:
Last week at Bonneville, I was able to bump the H/DT (1.5L diesel truck) record from 105.8 mph to 135.00 mph. That's in excess of the current G/DT (2.0L diesel truck) record of 129.xx mph. The record was set at approximately 5,100 rpms through most of the 2nd and 3rd miles.
Now, I'm back to daydreaming about building an engine in the 1.5-2.0L range to go and compete for the 2 liter record.
I still have a 9A block on the engine stand, and I'm back to researching pistons for a low-buck conversion.
Steve.
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Hi Steve.
What you're looking for isn't really too much.
I have a full electronic ALH in a rabbit pickup with RC stage 3 chip and .205 injectors, 10mm VE pump.
It dyno'd 149hp at the wheels on a mustang dyno.
I have managed to hit redline (4500rpm) in 5th (3.42 final, 0.71 5th, 175/70/13 rubber), which works out to ~125mph.
Probably could have pushed it more, but some days I'm a bit of a chicken.
The VE 8v TDI has developed a lot since then. I think guys are hitting 200hp without building the internals, only bolt ons and software.
11mm pump, VNT17/22 or larger, lift pump, bigger injectors.
For transmissions, the 02A from the mk3/B4 TDI with the 3.16 final, then you can swap out 5th for 0.622 for an easy bolt on, but a bit of a jump from 4th to 5th.
If you go with the Eurotuning.cz 6th gear kit for the 02a, you can opt for 0.59 6th with the 0.71 5th, for a theoretical top speed of 160mph.
You'd probably need over 300hp to hit 160mph.
The diesel truck 1.5-2L diesel land speed record is low hanging fruit. I've been tempted to drive my little pickup down there @ 60mpg, racing, setting a record, and driving it back home again.
Good luck.
-Dave
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Do you need to go over 1.5l? Can't you race your 1.5l in the 2l class?
If you have to go over 1.5, take a 1.6/1.7TD and use the pump you have or get a new, holset on it and go. If gears are a problem get a fwd pickup and use a 02a gearbox? Then this record will be easy picking. Afterall, you beat it with a 1.5l, making not really much power at all compared to dynos of 1.6idi's i've seen.
Someone likes the BMW 1.7td too, shorter stroke than vw 1.6... just sayin;-)
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The diesel truck 1.5-2L diesel land speed record is low hanging fruit. I've been tempted to drive my little pickup down there @ 60mpg, racing, setting a record, and driving it back home again.
Man, I'd be so pissed if someone made of comment like this in a thread of mine. The way this person trivialized Steve's determination and accomplishments is shameful. Have some respect dude! If your TDI is as fast as you say, go start your own landspeed racing thread and prove it!
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The diesel truck 1.5-2L diesel land speed record is low hanging fruit. I've been tempted to drive my little pickup down there @ 60mpg, racing, setting a record, and driving it back home again.
Man, I'd be so pissed if someone made of comment like this in a thread of mine. The way this person trivialized Steve's determination and accomplishments is shameful. Have some respect dude! If your TDI is as fast as you say, go start your own landspeed racing thread and prove it!
It is not really, just shows that he has no clue. That is why I didn't take it out. It is fun to laugh at people who think likewise. That and not one person pm'ed me with a complaint.
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The diesel truck 1.5-2L diesel land speed record is low hanging fruit. I've been tempted to drive my little pickup down there @ 60mpg, racing, setting a record, and driving it back home again.
Man, I'd be so pissed if someone made of comment like this in a thread of mine. The way this person trivialized Steve's determination and accomplishments is shameful. Have some respect dude! If your TDI is as fast as you say, go start your own landspeed racing thread and prove it!
It is not really, just shows that he has no clue. That is why I didn't take it out. It is fun to laugh at people who think likewise. That and not one person pm'ed me with a complaint.
Yup. No clue. No clue at all.
The OP has come back to say he's 15mph over the 1.5-2L record in the under 1.5L class, and I explained that I'd been near the current 1.5-2.0 speed, and with what engine and what modifications, detailing transmission and hardware to get me to that point. I also went into detail on how to improve on that with currently available technology, and how to lengthen the legs of the transmission to get more speed without redlining the engine.
As far as I'm aware, the 1.5-2L diesel pickup class record has been there 12+ years because it's not an overly competitive category. My SCTA rulebook is from 2004ish, when I was investigating heading down to the salt flats. From the OP's postings it sounds like that record still stands. Diesel technology has improved significantly since the record was set, so that was a bit surprising.
If I offended the OP, my humblest apologies to him. I was trying to be helpful, sharing my experiences, not trying to be flippant.
Guess I should go back to lurker mode, lest I offend anybody.
-Dave
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The diesel truck 1.5-2L diesel land speed record is low hanging fruit. I've been tempted to drive my little pickup down there @ 60mpg, racing, setting a record, and driving it back home again.
Man, I'd be so pissed if someone made of comment like this in a thread of mine. The way this person trivialized Steve's determination and accomplishments is shameful. Have some respect dude! If your TDI is as fast as you say, go start your own landspeed racing thread and prove it!
It is not really, just shows that he has no clue. That is why I didn't take it out. It is fun to laugh at people who think likewise. That and not one person pm'ed me with a complaint.
Yup. No clue. No clue at all.
The OP has come back to say he's 15mph over the 1.5-2L record in the under 1.5L class, and I explained that I'd been near the current 1.5-2.0 speed, and with what engine and what modifications, detailing transmission and hardware to get me to that point. I also went into detail on how to improve on that with currently available technology, and how to lengthen the legs of the transmission to get more speed without redlining the engine.
As far as I'm aware, the 1.5-2L diesel pickup class record has been there 12+ years because it's not an overly competitive category. My SCTA rulebook is from 2004ish, when I was investigating heading down to the salt flats. From the OP's postings it sounds like that record still stands. Diesel technology has improved significantly since the record was set, so that was a bit surprising.
If I offended the OP, my humblest apologies to him. I was trying to be helpful, sharing my experiences, not trying to be flippant.
Guess I should go back to lurker mode, lest I offend anybody.
-Dave
Thanks for proving my point. You haven't competed there and only thought about it 10 years ago. Jetmugg has walked the walk and built what was needed. There were other naysayers that said his 1.5 engine would not even run, let alone set a record or demolish one. Many on here have helped him out. It is a little different than a 1/4 mile top speed event and the 1.9l that set the record IIRC did was not able to back it up as it blew up. I am not trying to discourage you. I would love to see more people try, but I am trying to keep this board honest so when new people come on they can read it and get solid info, not bench racing taken as truth.
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Thanks for proving my point. You haven't competed there and only thought about it 10 years ago. Jetmugg has walked the walk and built what was needed. There were other naysayers that said his 1.5 engine would not even run, let alone set a record or demolish one. Many on here have helped him out. It is a little different than a 1/4 mile top speed event and the 1.9l that set the record IIRC did was not able to back it up as it blew up. I am not trying to discourage you. I would love to see more people try, but I am trying to keep this board honest so when new people come on they can read it and get solid info, not bench racing taken as truth.
Thank you, Global Mod, for the public shaming. I understand where you're coming from, and I for one wouldn't want to moderate a discussion board.
If you read the OP's first post in this thread, then my post, I detailed where I was on tarmac, and options to move beyond that. Those options would net 200hp wheel and put a TDI small truck deep into into the 130s or into the 140s on tarmac, which could be low 130s on salt, enough to get into the 130 Club, and set the class record.
The OP's current 1.5 build is amazing, and I would imagine that next season he'll return with a 1.6 bottom end and decimate the 1.5 to 2L record with a 1.6 IDI.
-Dave
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Hey you guys, this is my fault. I misunderstood what MrDave was saying originally. When he said the 1.5-2L diesel class was low hanging fruit, I misunderstood that to be the same 1.5-and-under class that Steve was in. That's why I thought he was dissing on Steve's accomplishments.
Again, I'm sorry MrDave for not comprehending what was actually being said, and hope there's no hard feelings.
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Rabbid79, thank you for your last post.
-Dave
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unless ive misunderstood; steve is running thru the trap at 4000some rpm in 4th gear. thats right in the max of man's estimation, ive found my ahu gets easily above 100mph, so if you gear it right you should easily be able to hit 4000rpm in 4th gear, depending on your gearing and stuff. whats you choice i havent seen, youve posted in the idi section, what engine are you going for this class?
getting above 120mph shouldnt be that hard of a job to do.