Author Topic: Hard start in morning (Read 8472 times)

Doug · « **Reply #15 on:** June 05, 2007, 01:12:15 pm »

Stop worrying about the compression. Check the glow system by using a clip on ammeter around the wire supplying the glow bus during the start sequence. Then check for potential (voltage) if you have no amps flowing. Then read all the posts here about how to check the glow system. Don't get sidetracked with other possible issues.

mtnbob · « **Reply #16 on:** June 05, 2007, 01:49:11 pm »

ty doug
the only reason i bring up compression, is because that is the top thing several people on here bring up first. i'm still learning, and this place has been great!!! i'm heading to the parts store right now.

mtnbob · « **Reply #17 on:** June 05, 2007, 04:40:54 pm »

ok got a voltage meter. is there any easy way to test the glow plugs with just one person? How do you turn the key and check? Sorry if this has been asked before.

Vincent Waldon · « **Reply #18 on:** June 05, 2007, 05:40:05 pm »

Not really... if you're clever you can rig the meter up so that you can see it from the driver's seat as you turn the key.

Note that this will only tell you if the plugs are getting power... if you're really lucky the answer will be "no" and you'll go looking for a bad fuse or relay. Easy.

If the answer is "yes" then you need an ammeter that can handle 50A to see what the glow plugs are doing with this power.... hence my comment that I use a cheap automotive ammeter (60-0-60 type). Easy.

Or, remove the copper bus bar between all the glowplugs and use your new multimeter to check the resistance of each glowplug. Should be around an ohm... and the good news is that you will already have everything half-apart in preparation for replacing the bad ones you may find. Challanging... you may bruise a knuckle and learn some new words.

To check the timing you need a particular dial gauge and adapter. To check the compression you need a diesel compression gauge (not the same as the typical ones for normal gasser.... much higher numbers).

Sounds to me like $86 dollars well spent... assuming you trust their work.

Vince

mtnbob · « **Reply #19 on:** June 05, 2007, 06:19:59 pm »

has anyone heard anything bad about vic bailey volkswagon in spartanburg sc?

burn_your_money · « **Reply #20 on:** June 05, 2007, 11:14:19 pm »

Here are the easy ways of checking the glow plug system

To verify voltage, remove the coolant temp sensor, this will leave the plugs on infinitly (I think) Don't leave them on too long though or you will burn them out. Turn the key and check for 12V. If you don't trust your multimeter just touch the wire to the head and look for sparks, but that's an easy way to blow your fuse(s)

Rather then fooling around with the bus bar and all that just go to a garage and ask to borrow their infared thermometer. Shoot each GP (using the above method for tricking the GP relay). You'll notice a temp change, it's a fair bit. If they won't let you borrow it just drop them a fiver, it won't take more then 5 minutes. Again, dont overheat the GPs. Or you can buy a cheapo one for $40

BlackTieTD · « **Reply #21 on:** June 06, 2007, 09:42:18 am »

the way i do it is:

get voltmeter ready in engine bay with the black near a ground and the red near the bus bar.

turn key forward on cold engine (yellow glow plug light comes on, no need to start car).

hurry and touch the black to ground, red to to bus bar, and you should get around 12v for 3 or 4 seconds. maybe less if you are slow

you can also test each GP for resistance but i'm not very slick at that.

Vincent Waldon · « **Reply #22 on:** June 06, 2007, 12:48:23 pm »

Unhooking the coolant sensor is a good thought to give you more time to run to the engine... it fools the glow plug relay into thinking its *really* cold out and the plugs will stay on for their max cycle (20-30 seconds)... they don't stay on forever 'cause a malfunction of the sensor would mean your battery would be drained flat.

Vince

burn_your_money · « **Reply #23 on:** June 06, 2007, 01:54:15 pm »

Thanks Vince,
I kind of figured there would be a maximum amount of time they would stay on for but I wasn't sure

Vincent Waldon · « **Reply #24 on:** June 06, 2007, 04:26:26 pm »

Those clever engineers at VW think of everything.... :roll:

Vince

jtanguay · « **Reply #25 on:** June 06, 2007, 05:00:11 pm »

so that's what that clicking is??? seems like the gp's are only on for about 15 seconds before it clicks off (the relay clicks)

mtnbob · « **Reply #26 on:** June 06, 2007, 08:12:53 pm »

Well i gave up and took my car to the dealer today. after they putzed around with it they proceded to tell me that the glow plug relay was bad, and that probably only three of the four glow plugs were working. Mechanic said he tested it using a used relay he had in his tools. Said I could live with 3 glow plugs for awhile, but I had to have a relay for the glow plugs to work. They were out of relays and it took 4-5 days to get one, so I asked him to sell me the used one. He wanted $40 for the used one. I got out of there for $122. Not sure if that was a good price on the relay. We will see if the prob was fixed in the morning. So far so good. He told me that the compression seemed great but I don't think he actually put a tester on it. Any opinions? :shock:

Well it looks like I could have gotten a new relay for $30 shipped, but I was there and it needed it today not next week, oh well :?

Vincent Waldon · « **Reply #27 on:** June 06, 2007, 09:39:33 pm »

Ask him the actual compression numbers... if he can't tell you but charged you for a compression test you want your money back.

Many many mechanics will tell you the compression is fine based on their calibrated ear as it starts... to me that kind of test is worth exactly what you should pay for it ie nothing !

Let us know how it starts with the new relay !!

Vince

burn_your_money · « **Reply #28 on:** June 06, 2007, 10:00:17 pm »

$40 for a used one :shock: I'm rich lol
I've paid more for a part now then had I ordered it and waited, I wouldn't worry about it.

It may be the way you wrote your post but the mechanic seems a bit fishy. As Vince said, ask for some solid numbers

mtnbob · « **Reply #29 on:** June 06, 2007, 11:00:22 pm »

Well i basically went in for an hour diagnostic, whatever it took to get it starting properly. He said it was the relay. When he put in his used one it sent the proper juice to the glowplugs. He also said it was only drawing 30-35 amps telling him that one glow plug was probably out, but it would start fine on 3 and he didn't want to run the bill up past the 1 hour mark. I guess that is cool, they knew I wasn't there to spend alot of money. As far as the compression, I asked him about it and he said again it would have taken over the hour, and in his opinion the way it ran, the compression was excellent, so once he found the problem, he wrapped it up. It was like they had 1 old timey mechanic for the old stuff that came in lol. Hell the $40 I spent on the relay was a side deal, with the service managers approval, strange place but worked for me. We will see in the morning when it is stone cold. I'm not thrilled with them in general, but if that was it, I'm happy. I'd have spent far more time and money trying to figure it out myself.

Author Topic: Hard start in morning (Read 8472 times)

Doug