Trouble with cold startups when it is -20 or below. - Troubleshooting - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• Trouble with cold startups when it is -20 or below. by Speaking on 30 Dec, 2004 07:50
• My glow plugs, batterie, and connectors are 1 year old. I have trouble starting my car when it is -20 and below. When my block heater is plug no problem it works and starts fine. But my problem is where i live i cant plug it. So i though of a solution. I thought of taking an extention cord to the block heater leave it inside the car pluged in a timer and  to a motormaster eliminator. Now my question is how many amps does the block heater need to run.. If my car is pluged for about 2 hours it will start.
  
  Does anyone think this can work?  thanks.  Forgot to say my car is a 92 golf diesel with 270 000KM.
• #1 by Justin on 30 Dec, 2004 09:52
• i dont have any expierience with cold starts yet but one thing that i have read is to change to a light weight synthetic oil and it really helps.
  
  I think that the block heaters are about a 400 watt system so if plugged into a 120 volt system then P=IV
  P= power = wattage
  I= current = amperage
  V= voltage
  so I=P/V
  400/120= about 3.33 amps
  
  the bad part about the booster packs is that they have really high amperage and amperage is what kills wires so you might end up frying your block heater by putting to many amps through it
  
  just my .02
• #2 by Patrick on 30 Dec, 2004 15:36
• I wouldn't worry about too much amperage, the block heater will only draw what it needs. I think the last block heater I put in something was 600 watts, and he's probably got the the math right. If you get a big enough battery pack/converter, it should work.  To get really fancy, plug the sucker into the ciggy lighter after you start the car to recarge it on the way to work!
• #3 by QuickTD on 30 Dec, 2004 16:53
• The block heater will draw 3.33 amps @ 120v. Convert the same 400watts of power to 12volts instead of 120 and you get 33.3 amps. Multiply by 1.11 to account for the inefficiency of the inverter (efficiency is roughly 85-90% on most)  and you get a current draw of about 37 amps, give or take. How long do you suppose a car battery can sustain a 37amp load?
  
  A very good 800-1000CCA car battery will have an amp hour rating of about 55 (I'll use the optima 34 as an example). Given this 55 amp hour figure a fully charged optima 34 at room temperature will sustain the 37 amp load for ~1.5 hours. This figure will get much, much worse in the cold. At -20ºC battery capacity is only about a third of what it is at room temperature so you will probably get somewhere around a half hour of reliable operation. At this point the battery will be effectively dead, so it will not start the car. At this rate you will need 4 good batteries to run the block heater for your desired 2 hours @ -20ºC, you will also need to keep a fifth battery onboard for starting purposes.
  
    The deep cycle rating for the optima 34 is excellent at 50 cycles, most car batteries will not stand up to this kind of abuse. This means that the batteries will need replacement after about 50 charge/discharge cycles. Deep cycle batteries would deliver far better cycle life, often over 350 cycles. Problem is deep cycle batteries usually have somewhat lower amp hour capacity and are heavier than cranking batteries. You may need a couple more of them...
• #4 by srivett on 30 Dec, 2004 21:58
• Don't forget that a dead battery will freeze and crack open.  If a TDI will readily accept a remote starter get one of them.  They will turn your car on throughout the day, on its own.  Diesel powered engine heaters are also available but is it normal for a TDI not to start in the cold?  -20 isn't a big deal for my car.  You should consult your dealer, they'll tell you the temperature where they have a flood of TDIs being hauled in by tow trucks.
  
  Cheers, Steve
• #5 by Hammy on 02 Jan, 2005 11:38
• I have a '91 Golf, and I don't have any problems starting it  at  -20C, in fact  a week and a half ago, it was -25C and it went with no problems, block heater not plugged in either. I'm sure their are some links to cold starting procedures. This is very important, and I never learned it until I frequented this sight, thanks guys. I find that I have to wait until it's running before I pull the cold start lever out. If I try to pull it out before hand, it won't start. Other than that, I would make sure all electrical connections are clean, and tight. I soldiered as much as I could also. Cranking speed it critical.
  
   Srivett, I've heard you repeat a few times that TDI's won't start in the cold. I totally disagree with that. Our '99 starts all the time. I've owned this vehicle for over a year now, and had no problems. I have yet to plug the block heater in on the vehicle. My wife drives it to school, and it sits all day outside with no problems.
  
   My father owns a 2004 TDI Jetta, it started a couple of weeks ago when it was -35C, sitting outside all night.
  
   I know others with them, and they seem to have no problems with thiers starting in the cold, so I don't know what you are talking about.
  
   I'm not trying to bash you here Steve, I just disagree with the statement.
  
   Happy New Year to all!
  
   Jason
• #6 by srivett on 02 Jan, 2005 11:48
• It must have been another Steve, I've never been close enough to a TDI to know how they start in the winter. There are a lot of them running around Sudbury so I guess they must start quite well, otherwise nobody would buy them.
  
  Steve
• #7 by Wingaman on 08 Jan, 2005 16:16
• Humm, check the injection pump timing. Probably is a little retarded and it will not start when is very cold.
  
  Mine 1.9TD in my 90 Jetta(yes it a swap) at 300 000 kilo start really fine a the -28 of a week and a half ago with absolutely no problem and not pluged. 1 engine turn and shes running.
  
  Mobil1 full synthetic 5w30
  Interstate 850CCA (new one before the winter)
  Glowplug seem to be good (i didnt change it and/or tested it).
  Injection pump timing of 0.95mm.
  FlyingJ (or farm fuel #1 :roll:) with 2oz of Ezoil DieselAid additive.
• #8 by steelsweetie on 23 Jan, 2005 01:16
• I'm suffering through my first winter n Trenton, ON. and my '01 Jetta TDI (160,000km) has been less than faithful this winter! The week before Christmas temperatures dropped to almost the -40 mark with windchill, and she just wouldn't go. After I hitched a ride home (not happily) I charged the newly drained battery, and was fine until last week. Now three more times in the matter of a week we've had unsuccessful mornings, one new glowplug, and one new battery. I'm calling on Monday to make an appointment, but a VW Mechanic pal of mine says it could have something to do with the starter? Has anyone heard anything about starters in VW's slowly petering out as opposed to quitting outright?
  Would really welcome any suggestions, this is becoming a pain..
• #9 by chrissev on 01 Mar, 2005 22:18
• Quote from: "Speaking"

  My glow plugs, batterie, and connectors are 1 year old. I have trouble starting my car when it is -20 and below. When my block heater is plug no problem it works and starts fine. But my problem is where i live i cant plug it. So i though of a solution. I thought of taking an extention cord to the block heater leave it inside the car pluged in a timer and  to a motormaster eliminator. Now my question is how many amps does the block heater need to run.. If my car is pluged for about 2 hours it will start.
  
  Does anyone think this can work?  thanks.  Forgot to say my car is a 92 golf diesel with 270 000KM.

  
  
  if you really can't plug it in, take the battery out and take it inside with you.  When you come back out, put the nicely warmed battery in the car.  It will start easily.  Either that or get a bigger CCA battery.
• #10 by steelsweetie on 08 Mar, 2005 17:02
• So turns out my mechanic pal was right, it was my starter - They do slowly burn out, and can cause the non-start on a cold morning. My car now starts on those chilly days! Worth checking out if you're having a similar problem...
• #11 by vwmike on 12 Mar, 2005 23:47
• Quote from: "Speaking"

  My glow plugs, batterie, and connectors are 1 year old. I have trouble starting my car when it is -20 and below. When my block heater is plug no problem it works and starts fine. But my problem is where i live i cant plug it. So i though of a solution. I thought of taking an extention cord to the block heater leave it inside the car pluged in a timer and  to a motormaster eliminator. Now my question is how many amps does the block heater need to run.. If my car is pluged for about 2 hours it will start.
  
  Does anyone think this can work?  thanks.  Forgot to say my car is a 92 golf diesel with 270 000KM.

  
  
  Have you considered moving someplace warmer?  
• #12 by steelsweetie on 17 Mar, 2005 19:55
• I'm telling you, get your starter checked out. I didn't think there was anything wrong with mine, but was in the same situation - new battery, glow plugs etc. My problem was solved when I finally put a new starter into it......
• #13 by srivett on 17 Mar, 2005 20:49
• I can believe it.  When I hear people start up their VW there it doesn't sound very good.  I can't really give a good explanation of the sound but I imagine you need to be outside of the car to hear it.  
  
  Steve