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Author Topic: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ  (Read 328157 times)

Reply #150June 11, 2015, 10:12:52 pm

vanbcguy

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #150 on: June 11, 2015, 10:12:52 pm »
That's not quite how things work. The main spring is always fully extended as it has a fair amount of preload on it. The intermediate spring is what helps maintain a set speed. Yes, adjusting the high speed stop on the pump does have some impact but only a few hundred RPM, adding more preload can boost it up by 1000 RPM.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 10:35:57 pm by vanbcguy »
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #151June 11, 2015, 10:43:49 pm

zukgod1

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #151 on: June 11, 2015, 10:43:49 pm »
I miss working on these simple engines. I threw away probably 3 engines when I moved last year. Also found probably 10 pumps. Some NA and a couple turbo pumps. Kept the pumps.

I'm working on a ALH swap in a mk2 I picked up a couple years ago.

My phone cut off the rest of the post.

I wad looking into an mTdi pump for the ALH swap but by the time I buy the core then have it built I'm money ahead using the ECM. Can do a custom tune etc and use all OE parts

« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 11:34:41 pm by zukgod1 »
dan

99 Golf TDI (now CNG powered) , 82 TD Caddy

Reply #152June 11, 2015, 11:31:58 pm

Tylenol

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #152 on: June 11, 2015, 11:31:58 pm »
So with my pump right now I am governed at 4200 rpm's I can pretty much feel the fuel cutting back at about 3500rpms! Without the internal gov mod the most I could do or get it about 5000 rpms and my fuel shouldn't start cutting back until about 4200rpms correct? I would have thought an extra 11/2 would give more then 800rpms! Maybe I should just do the gov mod I guess!

Reply #153June 12, 2015, 03:00:08 am

vanbcguy

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #153 on: June 12, 2015, 03:00:08 am »
There's a reason it's a sticky... ;-)

My Rover pump (which uses the same style of governor as the VW pump) will happily spin my TDI up to 5700 pulling strong now that it's shimmed. Prior to that you could hold the pedal to the floor and not get past 4500.
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #154June 12, 2015, 08:37:05 am

Tylenol

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #154 on: June 12, 2015, 08:37:05 am »
Maybe I should have mentioned my pump before im also using the rover pump 300tdi lol thanks for the input I'll definetly be doing the mod I want 5000 to be my red line and of course want it to pull all the way! Have you heard of anyone using the hertz speed switch to control the redline or shutoff, rpms or fuel demand shouldn't affect the fuel shutoff solenoid should it only reason I ask is I've read a few cummins people talk about modified pumps that run away or keep going regardless of the fuel shut off?

Reply #155October 31, 2015, 11:37:42 am

SR Heer

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #155 on: October 31, 2015, 11:37:42 am »
I have a Rover pump - is it a 200 or 300?
Here are the numbers on side - what all do they indicate?
I was told it has an 11mm fuel distributor head, does this make it a 200?
It does have a potentiometer on top of accelerator lever shaft.
Is there any way I can tell if this one was designed to run with EGR - so I can adj. expected static timing correctly?
Besides doing the governor mod would there be any other adjustments or mods needed for it to function well for street driving?

0 460 414 099
R 509-1
ERR 4046
011 662        156698
20620

97 Passat 1Z, 98 Jetta AHU, 91 Jetta AAZ TD, and 81 Rabbit Pickup

Reply #156October 31, 2015, 09:14:22 pm

vanbcguy

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #156 on: October 31, 2015, 09:14:22 pm »
If it has the potentiometer on top it is an EGR pump. Yes, it has an 11mm head. I'm 99% sure that's a 300TDI pump, ERR4046 I believe is the Land Rover part number for the 300TDI pump.
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #157October 27, 2016, 12:53:54 am

rotaecho

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #157 on: October 27, 2016, 12:53:54 am »
I've got a mTDI 12mm 4BT pump built for a Vanagon going in my Westy.

However, I'm curious what timing would be ideal for these 12mm 4BT pumps? I was told 1.05 which I believe will work, but all my research says this is for "performance pumps".

But what exactly makes one a "performance" pump?

Shooting for better mpg's than anything else. I have 764 nozzels and a K14 wastegate turbo on it.

Just a slight better clearity with how the timing range works with these mTDI 12mm 4BT pumps on an AHU setup.

Thanks!
-Will
1982 Westfalia 1.6na diesel aka Betsy Bertha The Tortoise

Reply #158October 27, 2016, 03:00:02 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #158 on: October 27, 2016, 03:00:02 pm »
1.05mm is the timing setting for an IDI 1.6TD injection pump.  That setting doesn't apply to other makes/models of pumps.  I would contact Karl and find out what timing setting he recommends for his pump.  There is no way for anyone else to know what internal parts were used and consequently what timing setting to recommend.  Your injector pop pressure will also affect the timing.  The best way to set the timing is with a pulse adapter and strobe.  I built quite a few mTDI pumps using 4BTA base pumps and the optimum timing ranged from 0.90 to 1.55mm.  It is likely I have more experience with those particular pumps than any other frequent poster on this forum and I feel it would be silly of me to guess at a recommendation.  Ask Karl. 

Reply #159October 27, 2016, 03:39:22 pm

ORCoaster

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #159 on: October 27, 2016, 03:39:22 pm »
Libby,  I agree with you that the 1.05 mark is for the 1.6 IDI.  And that the term performance likely meant fast and not cleaner.  The 1.05 mark is about the middle of the range you have experience so I would venture a guess that he could start there and figure his MPG for a few tanks then bump it one way or the other and see what he gets.  That is what most of us tuning for best mileage do as a course of business. 

But I would still do as you recommend to go ask the man for a setting.

Reply #160October 27, 2016, 04:29:25 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #160 on: October 27, 2016, 04:29:25 pm »
1.05mm is nearer the retarded limit than the midpoint.  Midway between 0.90mm and 1.55mm is 1.225 mm. 

Reply #161November 08, 2016, 01:46:28 pm

Sprinter4x4

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #161 on: November 08, 2016, 01:46:28 pm »
1.05mm is nearer the retarded limit than the midpoint.  Midway between 0.90mm and 1.55mm is 1.225 mm.

Timing depends a lot of what camplate is used and other internal specs. 1.05 seems to work best for the pumps I build. For years I used more aggressive timing specs and the engines sounded noisy, 'Dodge truck' like. Then I started dialing back the timing and now they sound like an eTDI and retain that quiet across the rpm range while having good EGT readings and power.
Karl

Reply #162November 08, 2016, 07:34:12 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #162 on: November 08, 2016, 07:34:12 pm »
I totally understand Karl.  I said a couple times that it would depend on the components used and that no one would know what timing spec to recommend for one of your pumps better than you would.  I was only stating that having built quite a few mTDI pumps from Cummins 4BTA base pumps, I found that depending on what was used internally the timing that I would consider optimal ranged from 0.9 to 1.55mm and that 1.225 was the midway point of that HUGE range.

Reply #163April 25, 2019, 06:20:21 am

JFKO

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #163 on: April 25, 2019, 06:20:21 am »
i just wanted to add some pumps to the list of parts numbers worth searching for. most off them are euro cars though

0 460 424 138 vw LT 2.8 12mm
0 460 414 156 peugeot 2.5 tdi 11mm
0 460 424 164 Fiat Ducato 2.8 tdi 12mm
0 460 414 128 Fiat Ducato 2.5 tdi 11mm
0 460 414 193 Kia Carnival 2.9 tdi 11mm
0 460 414 191 Kia Carnival 2.9 tdi 11mm the one im curently using
0 460 414 099 Land Rover 300 tdi 11mm
0 460 414 098 Land Rover 200 tdi 11mm
0 460 414 054 Iveco Daily 2.5 DI 11mm

GL with the hunt
1991 Golf Mk2 AHU MTDI and AAZ T3 Single cab

Reply #164June 11, 2019, 12:45:51 pm

Dino

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #164 on: June 11, 2019, 12:45:51 pm »
Hello.
I'm new. I'd like to build a mechanical pump. Unfortunately I don't know how a pump works.
I read the F.A.Q. and some post, some pictures are missing and some links are broken.
I can't explain and understand very well because the language.
Are there news regarding the best donor pump?
Used pumps to be rebuilt aren't  cheap at all so I'm not going to buy more than one.
It's an old project, I havent' got any diesel VW at the moment. Diesel cars aren't allowed to run everywhere because pollution,that's the main problem.
Generally used pumps are sold apart so I could find an used engine without the electronic pump to be used as donor or I could need a pump pulley for a mechanical one because the 20mm shaft.
What would be the best combo?
Thank you very much for your attention.
I think you've already seen those pumps documents.

dbwllc.net/app/uploads/2014/09/AAZ_Injection_Pump_Manual_Transmission.pdf

dbwllc.net/app/uploads/2014/09/Manual_Pump_Parts.pdf

dbwllc.net/app/uploads/2014/09/Automatic_Injection_pump_038_130_107_J.pdf

I thought that they could be useful to find a mechanical pump with the same camplate to fit on the engine but it wassn't so.
I found a catalogue too.

scribd.com/doc/93724322/BOSCH-CATALOGO-BOMBAS-VE-2009-2010

I'd like standard parts to fit without any working. I know,I asked too much and new Bosch spare parts can be very expensive.
I found thatt too, I don't understand what it is. I hope it can be useful anyway.

lambda-automotive.es/files/cursos/iny_diesel1/videos/calado.pdf

P.S. I've just discovered that external link aren't allowed. Sorry. Tell me if I must delete them.




 

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