A few TDI-M questions

[Seafarer12]

Hello Guys,
I know these are basic questions but I did do a search and couldn't find what I was looking for so don't burn me. I am contemplating putting a diesel in my 85 S-10. I would have preferred to use the stock tranny but nobody makes an adapter plate for them and I am not sure if I want to try to make one. So I guess I will keep an eye out for a Toyota tranny. I was thinking about using a 1.6TD until I got to reading about TDI-M's. I though about a TDI swap until I found out about all the electrical stuff that has to go with it to work. So now I am researching TDI-M's. I am not familiar with all the VW part numbers that you guys throw around so if you use them will you explain to me what they are. I would be looking for an engine in the 110 to 120 HP range. My questions are.

1. Do the TDI's have the same bellhousing pattern as the old IDI's?
2. What pump setup would be easiest to setup for a 110 to 120 hp engine?
3. What would you need to do to the pump to make it compatible to bolt up to the TDI?
4. What is needed to time the pump?(I know it isn't a stock application so I figure you cant just line up some marks)
5. What is the usable rpm range of the TDI?

I am back in school now so I am just in the planning stages now till I get back into the work force. Thanks for all the help. Joseph

[hillfolk'r]

im sorry,its late and im tired and i wanna post :lol:
1.  yes
2.find an older idi TD injector pump,and have a 12mm pumphead/plunger installed
3.the older pumps bolt right on the tdi bracket,but i gotmy tdi-m in a mk1 ,so i used the mk1 style pump bracket /motormount
you can alternatively use a mk1 gas engine mount,and the tdi pump bracket
be sure to use the correct timing belt tensioner setup with either setup(keep it "matched")
4.believe it or not,i timed mine just like a stock td,,i even set my pump timing to stock tdi specs
5. the usable rev range is from like 1800 to 4000,maybe 4200
at 4200 it sounds like its gonna blow,heck 2000 rpms sounds like its singing....
according to my gtech,the torque curve is pretty flat after it comes "on" around 1800 or so,,it just leaps up to 200+ ft pounds realfast and holds it till 4000
110-120 hp isnt a problem,and its  setup pretty mild,considering im using a n older stock kkk td turbo

heres a  horsepower/tq run from  my gtech,i hope its enough power for you....
i  really wanna dyno it some day,to get a true number
dont forget the reason(s) why those numbers are "low"
gtech gives you a net hp number
and im learning how to use it good still...

[Seafarer12]

2.find an older idi TD injector pump,and have a 12mm pumphead/plunger installed
3.the older pumps bolt right on the tdi bracket,but i gotmy tdi-m in a mk1 ,so i used the mk1 style pump bracket /motormount
you can alternatively use a mk1 gas engine mount,and the tdi pump bracket
be sure to use the correct timing belt tensioner setup with either setup(keep it "matched")
4.believe it or not,i timed mine just like a stock td,,i even set my pump timing to stock tdi specs
5. the usable rev range is from like 1800 to 4000,maybe 4200
at 4200 it sounds like its gonna blow,heck 2000 rpms sounds like its singing....
according to my gtech,the torque curve is pretty flat after it comes "on" around 1800 or so,,it just leaps up to 200+ ft pounds realfast and holds it till 4000
110-120 hp isnt a problem,and its  setup pretty mild,considering im using a n older stock kkk td turbo

Thanks for the reply.
2. So what size is the stock pump head and where do you get a 12mm pumphead. Should any injection pump shop be able to install it? Is it just a bolt on operation or is machining required?
3. What do you mean MK1? As far as the timing belt setup. Do you need to change the cog on the idi injection pump with the tdi cog?
4. So when you set your pump up you set it up just like a stock TDI pump?
5.Depending on what the tranny ratios are I might have to put a little higher gear in the rear. I don't have a tack now so I am not really sure what rpm I am running now. The 2.8 has a pretty limited rpm range but I think it goes a little higher than the TDI, but not by much.

Your numbers look good to me. My truck came with 110hp and 142lbs of torque so I wanted at least that if not a little more. I have had bigger diesel trucks but I can't justify a big truck anymore so I guess I will make what I want since nobody makes one. I have thought up a couple of more questions.

6. What are the best years of TDI's to use?
7. Are there any year injection pumps to use that are better than others?
8. Say I get a TDI out of a wrecked car so I get all the external components besides the injection pump does anything else need to be changed or modified to operate properly?
9. What kind of mpg are you getting out of your engine combo?
10. How much fuel pressure do you need to deliver to the engine?

Thanks again for your help. I am glad to know you can run semi stock stuff. I was a little leary when I started reading about running other pumps on them. I don't really want to stoke it up any. Just want something reliable with good mpg numbers but still enough power to tow a small trailer and get out of its own way.  Joseph

[hillfolk'r]

answers,again,and yea its late again

2.
a stock vw td pump has a 9mm plunger/head assy
i think some auto trans pumps were 10mm,but go bigger
 you can find a 12mm head plunger combo from any late 80's ve injector pump that was used on cummins 4B engines
 the stock 9mm pump will run the engine,you just wont have amazing power
the rabbittree  tried a stock 9mm pump with stock tdi injectors,it ran,but he said that his old 1.5 felt more powerful
he tried the 110hp injectors and it was better,so maybe the big race 520's will be even better than that
3.mk1 ,as in rabbit/jetta scirocco till 84
i didnt know what chassis you are putting it into,i just assumed it was an early car

keep your idi timing gear,dont use the tdi one

4. no,you set up the pump timing just like an old idi
maybe that qwestion confused me a little this late at night
5. to me,and my situation, i want to build a vw trans that has a 3.67 r+p,but uses the code  7A   ratios
right now im running an ASF code box
 get your ratios figured here

http://www.scirocco.org/gears/


6. i like the 3rd gen engines ,before 99
im using an ahu code tdi engine from a 98 jetta,its a drop in,without fabbing mounts like the mk4 engines
and they use(ahu) trunnions in the pistons,makes it a lil tougher  to start  with..
7.not really,just be sure its a td pump from a 1st gen or 2nd gen vw...
8.i used the old td exhaust manifold,and turbo,instead of the tdi stuff
theres some minor differences in water outlets and stuff,but that can be used from the early engines(mk1-2)
9. i get 52-54 mpg on the hiway at 75 mph
i traveled from cleveland to upstate ny on 1 tank in my rabbit(its 500 miles,and a rabbit has a 10.5 gallon tank)
the way i drive it,i still get very  hi 40s  around town
totally kick arse if ya ask me
thats better than a stock na diesel or even a old td
10.you can use a smalllift pump to supply fuel to the IP,and 10psi is fine
10

[DA-BRT]

Here is a technical drawing of a VW 4-cyl engine (except smallblocks 1000-1400cc)

HERE

[Seafarer12]

Thanks for the help. I have a question about the drawings. What are the difference between the 4 dawings. I can some of the measurements and oil pans arent the same. I am just glad to have an engineering drawing of the bellhousing. Will make it a lot easier if I have to make an adapter plate. Now I just need to get the same drawing of a 60 degree chevy pattern.

I have also been doing some reading on pumps.

11.One question which pumps will have the 20mm shaft and any advantage over the 17mm for my application.

12.I have seen a few 11mm pump heads for sale will they work or should I just keep looking for a 12mm.

13.Does anyone have an exploded view of a vw injection pump. I might have to find me a cheap junker and tear it apart and see how everything works. I understand boiler controls I should be able to figure out an injection pump.

14.What would be a good price for a TD injection pump? I have found a lot of n/a pumps but not a lot of TD ones.

15.What would be a good price for a complete TDI? I figure anything I dont use I could sell.

16. When did they go to the variable vane turbo? I was reading something about them on a site. I would prefer to just run a wastegate.

Thanks for all the good info. Joseph

[Seafarer12]

I just thought I would bump this since I edited my post. Thanks

[deepmud]

There are kits to bolt the VW pattern to Toyota 22R pattern - you can then use 2x4 or 4x4 RWD Toyota transmissions (adapter required to get the chevy tcase back if it's 4x4 you want). I know of one single one-off kit that adapts the VW to a chevy 60 V6 pattern as well - the guy is inclined to sell it too if you are interested, 'bout 500 including the starter, plate, and diesel torque convertor for ( I think ) 700R4? 200R4? I forget.

[hillfolk'r]

11.the 20mm pump shaft needs the later style pulley
they say its stronger and would avoid a potential breakage,but ive only heard one story of breakage
12.an 11mm is ok too
13.theres some stuff around here, i think jake used to have some pics
14.ive seen used td pumps from 200 to 500 bucks
15.i got my long block for 400 on here
http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1046&highlight=tdi+syracuse
16. the mk4s were the variable vane i believe

[Benjamin]

@Seafarer12: 11mm plungers can give a lot of feul, if you realy want a 12mm, problebly i have a couple brand new of those for a good price.

Greetz, Benjamin

[Seafarer12]

Too bad that kit isnt set up for a stick. Who has the kit for the 700r4? I mean the yota kits are about 400 but they are set up for a stick but I would have to get a tranny. So It would be a wash.

I will keep an eye out for a pump head off a 4BT. That would probably be the cheapest way.

I am in school at the moment so I will just wait for good deals to come along since I have plenty of time.

What year did they start offering the TDI?

[nkb]

Too bad that kit isnt set up for a stick. Who has the kit for the 700r4? I mean the yota kits are about 400 but they are set up for a stick but I would have to get a tranny. So It would be a wash.

I will keep an eye out for a pump head off a 4BT. That would probably be the cheapest way.

I am in school at the moment so I will just wait for good deals to come along since I have plenty of time.

What year did they start offering the TDI?

too bad your not closer, i have a S-10 5 speed here i wanna get rid of, damn thing only has like 80k km on it

[Seafarer12]

Thanks for the offer but I dont need another S-10. I have been thinking about it over the weekend and I am beginning to have second thoughts about a swap for the truck. As little as I drive it It wouldnt be worth the money. Now if I could find an early 90's 1.6 Jetta and do a TDI-M swap. Now I would drive that a lot more. That would definatly have to wait till I got out of school . I am determined to put a TDI-M in something though.