Quick question: TDI to M-TDI

[entuzijast]

Are there internal parts that need to be changed when converting TDI to M-TDI (pistons or.....?)

[hillfolk'r]

no all the tdi  "guts" stay the same
take a "long block tdi engine"
and put all the older td (non electronic)parts  on it
voila,its a tdi-m

[Holeshot]

Forgive my ignorance - I did some searches and didn't come up with much.

How does converting from TDI to M-TDI affect fuel mileage on an A4 chassis?

Thanks,

Matt

[hillfolk'r]

i wouldnt know
but i know mine gets awesome mileage
i bet it would be close to an electronic
my M gets 51-53 mpg on the hiway @ 75 mph
i bet an electronic may get mid hi 50s possibly
but i like the power delivery of the M better
its sorta violent

[Holeshot]

NICE!  I'm getting about 45mpg right now and am not a big fan of the VP-37 and how it operates.

I'm used to driving 6000#+ vehicles with great throttle response.  (Like my '94 Ram - 12-valve Cummins, P-7100 inline pump, 5 x .015" EDM injectors, no plate, tweaked AFC, tight convertor, billet parts in tranny, high line pressure, etc... ~400hp at the rear wheels)  My TDI feels absolutely anemic and unresponsive by comparison.

I'd love to have an inline pump on a TDI like that European pulling tractor mentioned in another thread here in the forums, but it would be a lot of custom work.  I have a brand new 4-cylinder Bosch A-series pump just waiting to be bolted to something...

I think a tweaked 4BT VE pump will flow more than enough fuel for a little 1.9L TDI.  Even a non-tweaked one with big injectors is plenty of fuel to make hot EGT's and burn clutches. haha

What are you all doing about the lift pump for M-TDI's?  Preaching to the choir:  6BT and 4BT applications using the VE-44 use a ~15psi mechanical lift pump...  P-7100 applications use a similar pump, but higher (30+) pressures.

Thanks,

Matt

[therabbittree]

well a electric  lift pump near the tank to act as a pusher is what we've been doing.. and always run it i roasted my 12 mm plunger by only running the lift pump on drag runs etc not around town.. blake runs his all the time and i will too in the future.. Don't use a carter froma  school bus or isb argh we have had nothing but trouble with it ..im surprise when i relocated my dads in the ram with teh vulcan kit t6hat its is working nice.. but in the vw blake and i have gon ethrough about 8 of them and all suck..he tried a older rabbit CIS vw fuel pump and it was awesome juts need to do a bypass regulator to keep psi around 20psi. The cis bosch fuel pumps are pushers and are super super reliable.. ie 150k miles no problem and 70 psi stock.
Later
Deo

[therabbittree]

man i wouldn't remove the electronics from a A4 tdi like your wifes car.. you can get a lot of power with the right chip and injectors to solve that amnemic pedal.. i would do the mechanicl injectuion on a swap  or a older vw etc.. remember all the dash and key etc are elcetronic on the A4.. so its trickyer.. get teh bigger vr6 cluthc in there and the race .260 kerma nozzles ..and abig rocket chip chip and no mufflers it should run good like my old golf did..
later
deo

[Holeshot]

How about an A4 like my Beetle? haha

Mods: cat is spayed and the muffler isn't OEM...it supposedly has Van Aaken injectors...Evry mod (670 Ohm resistor wired to a dash mounted switch)...ghetto K&N intake...new MAF....cleaned intake....EGR turned down with VAG-COM...etc.

It's slow as heck (lot faster than the wife's A4 ALH Jetta...).  I want to run a much bigger turbo - like the HY30W from my common rail ISB (I have an HY35W from a 5.9 ISB to use on that engine).  Is there a chip program out there that disables/ignores the OEM VNT boost control?

I may try that Purolator pump mentioned on the TDIClub forums - it's like $30 brand new and self regulated.  There's also the Walbro pump that Glacier Diesel sells for ~$99...but I'd have to regulate the heck out of that thing.

Thanks,

Matt

[hillfolk'r]

yea thats part of the problem,getting someone to write up a good fueling curve the way a mech.pump fuels,and boosting it with that much air
someone needs to make a  blackbox that runs the electronic pump
and make it so i can run it from my laptop,and change the fuel/timing parameters
yea therabbittrees words are golden
i dont know if id make an electronic car a mechanical,maybe if i had a beat  out mk3 tdi,and the electronic ip took a dump
i dont know if you knew,but i am runnin a  rabbit,thats part of the awesome power,is a gutted+hacked up car
its ugly,but it goes :lol:  :lol:

[Zeroroll]

Are you still working in Akron or did you move.
 I bought that new 1.6D head from you. My name is Ron.
 I just scored a GTI body to put my TDI-M project engine into,so it's finally going to happen. I still have to do the VW Turbo pump/ Cummins 4bt pump "meld", although I now have both pumps. TDI-M/GTI Yumm!!!
 Here is the thread we were talking about all this in, to refresh your memory:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2559133&page=1
 It should be helpful to anyone else contemplating this swap as well.
 PM me or reply...I'd like to talk to you.

[hillfolk'r]

yea ron
i remember that
hows it goin???
yea i moved about 6 weeks ago
talk to kevin there at r+r
he can build you a nice pump when you need
i figured out the lift pump problem
i got a cis pump to work
mines  a real crappy setup,but i did it to prove a point that it works
i got a bunch of brass and tees and stuff
and a cheapo air regulator that goes on an air tool(home depot again)
make a t fitting on the outlet of the cis pump
1 line goes to the engine feed,the other line goes to the inline regulator

make another tee and cut it into the supply to the cis pump

open the regulator totally,and you get 0 psi
close the regulator,and get 99 psi
 :shock:
gotta adjust it slowly and watch the psi go up(mines mounted under the car,and i can read my psi guage with the pass.door open)
so now i got like 30 psi at idle,or even key on
and i havent seen it really go under 20 psi under load
get a better regulator,and the psi will hold better
ill haveta get some pics

[Zeroroll]

Hi Blake.
 Sounds like what you came up with works fine.
 I'm planning on using a Holley Fuel Pressure Regulator, as I happen to have one on hand.
 Summit has these and they are typically used with Holley's blue Race pumps, which are vane pumps like the CIS.
 They also have a threaded port for a fuel pressure gage.
 Sorry to hear you moved. I was hoping for at least one wild ride in your car sometime!
 All for now, Ron

[hillfolk'r]

whenever i come back out,ill get a hold of you,i think i still got your card
i came across it a few weeks ago
im gonna have to find a nicer cis pump,because mine has some nasty corrosion around the electric terminals,and the banjo area too
it doesnt  leak,but it stays "wet" with fuel
yea im gonna be hopefully setting it up with nicer lines and AN fittings and stuff,and get a good regulator
igotta get somethin goin with this turbo setup
basically im on hold till i have the time to remove my exhaust manifold,and mock up the custom one(from pvc),then send that out to gene so he can duplicate it in metal
maybe therabbittree has a spare head and intake that i can use for part of my mock-up