Author Topic: NA pump mods? (Read 9791 times)

HIGH PSI · « **Reply #15 on:** October 30, 2004, 08:32:44 am »

Try flooring it to start it. If your throttle lever is not aligned right you could be below idle position and not have any/enough tension on the governor springs. You need to have the throttle shaft twisted about as far counterclockwise as you can with your fingers when you put the throttle lever on in the idle position. I often put the lever on before hooking the springs back up so it is easier to get everything positioned right. You could actually try starting it without hooking the springs back up everytime if you had someone there who could act as a return spring for you and move the throttle lever from under the hood. It may take a few tries repositioning the lever until you get it to idle at the right speed again.

dieselpower · « **Reply #16 on:** October 30, 2004, 11:59:35 am »

hey,
on the throttle shaft there is a line like a flat screwdriver would go in, and on the throttle lever around the hole where it mounts to the shaft are three lines that cross the hole. you have to line up the line on the shaft with one of the outside lines, not sure witch one at the moment then it should run right...it might just be coincidence but every pump i've seen has it lined up on the same line..
hope this helps

Mark

leprechan · « **Reply #17 on:** October 30, 2004, 12:15:06 pm »

My pump has about a dozen or so lines for adjustment on the throttle lever. I noticed a dimple in one of the lines, it looks like it was put there by a punch or something. Is it possiblel it was put there during the rebuild? When I put the throttle lever on I twisted the shaft until I felt the governer springs and that was about where the line where the dimple was. Another possability I was thinking about is the 4 allen screws that hold the lid down. What do you torque those things down to? I remember them being really tight so I tightened them the best I could with the pump in the car. I thought I did a pretty good job at getting them tight, but maybe not. Comments welcome.

Nick

HIGH PSI · « **Reply #18 on:** October 30, 2004, 12:31:51 pm »

It is a good possibility that the rebuild shop put the dimple there. When I am rebuilding a VE pump, I will usually scribe a line on the top of the throttle lever, but I know some shops are center punch happy.
As long as the top cover gasket doesn't leak, and the screws aren't so loose that they will vibrate out, you should be alright.
What all did you do while you were inside the pump. Usually the best way to troubleshoot something is to start at the beginning of when the problem started, and see what may have been done that could be causing the problem.

leprechan · « **Reply #19 on:** October 30, 2004, 01:10:14 pm »

Thats a good idea HIGH PSI. I'll make a nice little list out of it.

•   Removed the throttle cable.
•   Removed the throttle cable mount.
•   Removed the throttle lever and springs.
•   Removed the idle stop stud.
•   Removed the return outlet banjo bolt.
•   Removed the 4 allen bolts.
•   Fiddled with the lid for a while.(couldn’t figure out how to remove.)
•   Pushed the throttle shaft through to remove the lid.
•   Unhooked the governor spring assembly from the pump and replaced the lid.
•   Found two small nuts that would fit the shaft and clear the retaining clip.
•   Thoroughly cleaned the nuts with solvent.
•   Added the nuts to the governor assembly to increase the preload to the main spring.
•   Cleaned the whole assembly with solvent again.
•   Replaced the governor assembly in the pump.
•   Pushed the throttle shaft back through the hole in the lid.
•   Tightened the allen bolts back down.
•   Replaced the idle stop stud.
•   Replaced the return banjo bolt.
•   Tried to add atf through the return fitting.
•   Fiddled with the springs and throttle lever for a few hours.
•   Figured the whole spring setup the next day.
•   Tried to start.(no good lots of sputtering)
•   Loosened the injector unions and cranked.
•   Fuel comes out and injector unions are retightened.
•   Try to start again. (same thing lots of sputtering)
•   Lots more trying.
•   Battery dead. Put the charger on and called it a night.
•   Present day lol

Hope this helps you help me hehe.

Nick

--edit--
If the top cover gasket is leaking will I see fuel leak around the side of the pump or will it suck air?

dieselpower · « **Reply #20 on:** October 30, 2004, 01:47:21 pm »

i don't have a gasket on the top cover of my pump. anyway the inside of the pump is pressurized so i would assume u would get diesel on the outside of the pump if there was a leak there.

oh, and make sure the linkage is all hooked up on the inside of the pump...when i removed my govenor the linkage came aprt when i put the pump back together, not sure how tho, and no matter what i did with the throttle lever it wouldn't start...i even got my dad to tow me around the block to try and start it it trie but just wouldn't go...i thought it had something to do with the goven so i tried to take the cover back off and it wasnt connected....

hope this helps

Mark

leprechan · « **Reply #21 on:** October 30, 2004, 02:01:42 pm »

Is the linkage where you have to rotate the governor assembly to that flat spot to reassemble. I really don't want to take it apart again, but if I can't get it to start I may have to. I'm gonna go play with it a little bit more then maybe check back here before I start surgery. Thanks for the info.

Nick

HIGH PSI · « **Reply #22 on:** October 30, 2004, 04:24:37 pm »

Quote from: "dieselpower"

i don't have a gasket on the top cover of my pump. anyway the inside of the pump is pressurized so i would assume u would get diesel on the outside of the pump if there was a leak there.

Mark

There is not a paper gasket, but there is a molded rubber square cut o-ring in a groove in the top cover.

leprechan:
when you were re-assembling the governor linkage with the two nuts did you notice how the spring seat on the open end of the frame had two little notches to seat it into the frame? If they weren't seated correctly it could have come apart like dieselpower said. Also where did you put the nuts? In place of the intermediate spring?

By the way, don't try to start the engine with the charger on boost/start. If you do you can kiss your glow plugs bye-bye. I always use boost/start in between trying to start, and then turn it back to low to glow plug and crank.

leprechan · « **Reply #23 on:** October 30, 2004, 04:36:12 pm »

Don't worry I took the charger off before I tryed to start it. I got to messing with it for a while and finally got this one allen in the back a little tighter. Man that thing is a *** while its in the car. I cranked on it a few times and almost got it started but no luck. So then I got my electric pump out to prime it. I ran it out of a quart of atf. As soon as its started it starts to rev uncontrolably. I'm kind of thinking I have the throttle shaft too far towards WOT. I'm gonna take a lunch break and check back here before I go out to work on her again.

Nick

--edit--
I put the two nuts with the itermediate spring. It slightly compressed the intermediate and compressed the main spring a bit more. It all seated correctly when I put it together.

dieselpower · « **Reply #24 on:** October 30, 2004, 04:53:30 pm »

did you try turning down the idle and full load screws? try turning them down so that it idles without reving. or you can try turning back the throttle lever like you said...if you are careful you can trun it without having to take the whole thing off and put the springs back on again.
hope that help somewhat

Mark

--edit--
im just curious...how thick are the 2 nuts you put on there to preload it?

leprechan · « **Reply #25 on:** October 30, 2004, 05:48:29 pm »

I got it to idle correctly, but it defuels really slow now. If I rev it high enough it doesn't want to come down. I had to turn the idle stop in quite a ways for it to idle. I tryed turning the shaft one notch more, but it starts to overrev again. I'm kind of at loss of what to do now. Any help is appreciated.

vwmike · « **Reply #26 on:** October 30, 2004, 05:52:56 pm »

I wish someone had some good pictures of this one. I know what the inside of the injector pump looks like but I'm still trying to figure out what you guys are talking about.

dieselpower · « **Reply #27 on:** October 30, 2004, 06:57:16 pm »

thats is exactly what happened to my pump when i removed the govenor. supposedly it's because of a high internal pump pressure that it has a sticky speed. anyway i tried expirementing with different return orfice size and goining bigger there helped stop that problem but when i made it bigger it also started fueling less due to the vane pump pusshing all the fuel back into the tank before the car could use it. also at higher rpm..around 4300 it would miss and stop due to the pump not getting enough fuel from the tank. if you back out the full load srew some more this will go away....but then you loose some of the fueling.
the only way around thid i can see is to get a bigger plunger or put in a 1.9 camplate with more lift
hope this helps

Mark

P.S. i left it how it was and just learned where that starts to kick in and either shift below that or shift really fast above that point..i also have a little bit bigger orfice on the return to raise that point but i also loose some fueling.

dieselpower · « **Reply #28 on:** October 30, 2004, 07:00:53 pm »

vwmike,
when i decide to get dressed ill take some pics of the inside of a pump for you to see.

Mark

dieselpower · « **Reply #29 on:** October 30, 2004, 07:46:17 pm »

ok,
here are some pics of govenor.
you have to either shim or replace the 2 springs on the left to make them reallystiff.

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/418501/3

sorry bout the blurry pics...my digi cam isn't really good at closeups.
hope this helps

Mark