Author Topic: lift pump on a 1.6td mf  (Read 4304 times)

June 27, 2021, 03:33:38 am

85bertajetta

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lift pump on a 1.6td mf
« on: June 27, 2021, 03:33:38 am »
i have an 85 jetta and was having some fuel supply issues to the ip. bought a lift pump before really diagnosing (i know pretty stupid but the engine was also getting a new cam as the last owner broke it in 3 pieces trying to bump start it) turns out there was a restriction in the rear water separator  i got a carter p90047 which is suppose to work on this application but very little specs i can find on it . dont know if i can use this for possibly easier starting. if i need a regulator or run it as is



Reply #1June 27, 2021, 11:36:38 pm

fatmobile

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Re: lift pump on a 1.6td mf
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2021, 11:36:38 pm »
 Get rid of the water separator.
A dash-mounted fuel pressure gauge will let you know if there is a fuel line restriction.
 Or how high the fuel pressure is if you have a helper  pump.
 I think a helper pump is only needed at high RPM, high loads.

Cummins uses a helper pump with all their bosch rotaries.
Not sure how high the pressure is.
 Since the pressure shows up behind the mainshaft seal it can push the seal lips tight against the shaft
if it's too high,.. maybe under 5psi would be safe..
Tornado red, '91 Golf 4 door,
with a re-ringed, '84 quantum, turbo diesel, MD block

Reply #2June 30, 2021, 08:12:05 am

Ohiobenz

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Re: lift pump on a 1.6td mf
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2021, 08:12:05 am »
According to Giles from PDI the IP should be able to lift fuel from a jerry can sitting on the floor next to the engine. If it doesn't,  providing the fuel supply line is good, the vane lift pump in the IP is malfunctioning or broken.
I've researched that a bit because of my fueling issues. People have recommended soaking the vane pump with various solvents to get the potentially stuck vanes to come loose. Mine lifted OK so I never went there.
'88 Suzuki Samurai with '85 1.6 TD
K14 turbo
BOV eliminated
Giles performance built IP

Reply #3June 30, 2021, 11:39:16 pm

85bertajetta

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Re: lift pump on a 1.6td mf
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2021, 11:39:16 pm »
According to Giles from PDI the IP should be able to lift fuel from a jerry can sitting on the floor next to the engine. If it doesn't,  providing the fuel supply line is good, the vane lift pump in the IP is malfunctioning or broken.
I've researched that a bit because of my fueling issues. People have recommended soaking the vane pump with various solvents to get the potentially stuck vanes to come loose. Mine lifted OK so I never went there.
got it all back together runs off a jerry can fine sucks the fuel back pretty good but now having starting issues  :-\ seems alittle low on compression or the starter on it isnt quite turning it over quick enough

Reply #4July 01, 2021, 10:50:26 pm

ORCoaster

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Re: lift pump on a 1.6td mf
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2021, 10:50:26 pm »
Compression check time then.  Do you have the proper tools for it? 

Reply #5July 02, 2021, 12:47:31 am

85bertajetta

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Re: lift pump on a 1.6td mf
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2021, 12:47:31 am »
Compression check time then.  Do you have the proper tools for it?
Unfortunately I don't. It fires just doesn't want to catch and start, have got it running twice and let run for about 2 hours and drove it. The car drives fine has lots of power, idles fine, it's just the start-up. I'm going to re-check the timing again and see if that's the issue. It won't even start on ether. The car does have 450k kms on the dash so I'm sure it might need sleeves and rings or oversized pistons.   
« Last Edit: July 02, 2021, 08:49:09 pm by ORCoaster »

Reply #6July 02, 2021, 08:49:51 pm

ORCoaster

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Re: lift pump on a 1.6td mf
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2021, 08:49:51 pm »
Sounds like it is time for the next sized pistons in the block.


Reply #7July 03, 2021, 12:32:54 am

fatmobile

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Re: lift pump on a 1.6td mf
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2021, 12:32:54 am »
 Put a socket on the end of the crank and turn the engine over by hand.
Sounds like the fuel problem was just a restriction caused by,..
probably the check valve in front of the water separator.
The vane pump is good. It pulls fuel good now.

How long does it sit before it won't start?

Do you have clear fuel lines?
Fuel might be syphening back toward the tank when it's shut off.

I haven't heard glow plugs mentioned yet.
 Have you checked those?
 Put a voltmeter on the first one.
 See if you are getting voltage and how much.
Tornado red, '91 Golf 4 door,
with a re-ringed, '84 quantum, turbo diesel, MD block

Reply #8July 03, 2021, 05:00:09 pm

85bertajetta

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Re: lift pump on a 1.6td mf
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2021, 05:00:09 pm »
Got it running on the jerry can right now with no fuel filters atm so no fuel restrictions before the pump after I have it running and shut it off it has issues starting immediately glow plugs are all fine I have pulled them all out and checked and also checked for voltage at all of them so that’s all good. I know pistons is probably in this cars future but it’s pretty rough and I wasn’t really wanting to put that much into it I am happy that the ip is good

Reply #9July 03, 2021, 06:33:24 pm

85bertajetta

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Re: lift pump on a 1.6td mf
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2021, 06:33:24 pm »
Don’t think it’s losing prime when I go to start it it seems like 1 cylinder fires and lots of white and puffs of black smoke and it smokes right away

Reply #10July 03, 2021, 11:21:19 pm

fatmobile

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Re: lift pump on a 1.6td mf
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2021, 11:21:19 pm »
 What voltage do you have at the glow plugs when they are firing?
 Did you try to turn it by hand?

and clear fuel lines?
Tornado red, '91 Golf 4 door,
with a re-ringed, '84 quantum, turbo diesel, MD block

Reply #11July 04, 2021, 11:05:09 pm

ORCoaster

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Re: lift pump on a 1.6td mf
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2021, 11:05:09 pm »
You should be able to feel a difference between cylinders when turning it over by hand.  As you get close to TDC on each cylinder it will be pushing back at you as you wrench it over.  Those with low compression will not push back as hard if at all.  Get it lined up on TDC with the #1 cylinder and walk it thru the firing order back to #1.  Let us know what your hand tells ya.

Reply #12July 04, 2021, 11:29:20 pm

85bertajetta

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Re: lift pump on a 1.6td mf
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2021, 11:29:20 pm »
there is 11.6 volts at glow plugs 1-4 so no voltage issues unless they are only suppose to run on 6  and when I turn it over by hand I can feel some compression but feels no different then my sun fire's 2.2 so guessing its low on compression. guess ill be on the hunt for some pistons guess its time to pull the head off and see how much the ridge is

Reply #13July 05, 2021, 12:04:28 am

fatmobile

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Re: lift pump on a 1.6td mf
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2021, 12:04:28 am »
 It's good to see the glow plugs drop the voltage.
 If it was 12volts I would be concerned they weren't pulling enough amps.
Tornado red, '91 Golf 4 door,
with a re-ringed, '84 quantum, turbo diesel, MD block

Reply #14July 05, 2021, 08:58:19 am

srgtlord

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Re: lift pump on a 1.6td mf
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2021, 08:58:19 am »
Are you sure the injection pump is not timed 180 degrees out? FYI a 2000 TDI automatic starter works wonders as a replacement starter on these motors

 

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