Author Topic: Stuck in Victorville - any help would be appreciated  (Read 822 times)

Reply #15February 21, 2020, 07:22:44 pm

festethejeste

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Re: Stuck in Victorville - any help would be appreciated
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2020, 07:22:44 pm »
New injector didn't solve the issue. 

Luckily the owner was there and they actually had  a compression test and cylinder #2 had 0 psi.  The original mech said they didn't have the tools. 

I have no idea how cylinder 2 goes from working completely fine to 0.  Engine ran fine (2 mins) then was shut off.  Bump started a couple of times ( 2 forward bumps and 1 backward) maybe the backward one did it? 

So that's it I guess.  Our 2 month journey ends very expensively, with a blown head, no explanation and now we ship this back to Canada on a flatbed

***. 


Reply #16February 21, 2020, 09:09:13 pm

fatmobile

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Re: Stuck in Victorville - any help would be appreciated
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2020, 09:09:13 pm »
 So with the 1.9 engine,..
 there is no mark on the injection pump sprocket
 that lets you know if it's at TDC?

 Like there is on the back of the 1.6 sprocket.
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Reply #17February 21, 2020, 09:39:04 pm

festethejeste

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Re: Stuck in Victorville - any help would be appreciated
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2020, 09:39:04 pm »
Yeah but the guy stuck a dial gauge in the back and said it was alright..

However I did ask (quiz) him on what the deflection was ie approx 80 mm and he said yeah it was about that... So much for confidence


Reply #18February 22, 2020, 01:22:14 am

libbydiesel

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Re: Stuck in Victorville - any help would be appreciated
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2020, 01:22:14 am »
Reluctantly brought the van into dreamcar European auto repair in Victorville.  450$ in and they still haven't found out what it is. 

Said the compression was good, timing was good but need more time.

I don't get it.  You say here that they said the compression was good then you say the problem is no 0 compression in one of the cylinders?  Sorry for your troubles.  It sounds to me like the place working on it had no idea what they were doing and you got to pay them extra for that.
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Reply #19February 22, 2020, 11:27:17 am

festethejeste

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Re: Stuck in Victorville - any help would be appreciated
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2020, 11:27:17 am »
Yeah a little bit of that Libby. 

I found out that they originally said they checked compression but after actually talking to the mechanic he said no we actually didn't.  Claiming we don't have the right fittings...  ( Side note what are the fittings I need so I can do this myself or is there a kit I could by at Napa or something)

Then I ordered new injectors only to find out that wasn't the problem. 

Then the owner luckily said "did you check the compression" and magically pulled out the kit with fittings.  Dumb and lazy mech I guess.  I was so surprised when the mech said"we don't have the fittings" sorry.... While I look around in the garage and its full of old Mercs VW's etc. 

Of course "check the compression" was the first thing I asked them to do...

Reply #20February 22, 2020, 12:02:16 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Stuck in Victorville - any help would be appreciated
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2020, 12:02:16 pm »
To check compression you need a diesel compression tester.  There are cheap ones available from Harbor Freight or the like.  Most will come with either an adapter that fits the glow plug or one that fits the injector or both.  Their accuracy might not be great but they'd definitely show the difference between 0 and decent.  FWIW, even without any sort of compression tester, 0 compression on one cylinder would be quite obvious just rotating the crankshaft by hand.  There would be no resistance on that compression stroke. 

If there actually is 0 compression on one cylinder, then here is a feasible explanation.  Bump starting it caused weak AAZ crankshaft bolt/sprocket to be overly stressed and to rotate far enough that timing was off.  Next time you tried to start it, pistons hit valves (extra clacky sound) resulting in 0 compression due to the bent valve(s).   That would mean that the shop didn't have a clue and didn't know how to check the timing either.  I'm not sure what to suggest other than what I mentioned before.  When the dust settles, if you plan on continuing to own/operate this vehicle, you might want to get the proper manual(s) and become obsessive with learning how they work so you can avoid this type of situation in the future.  An AAZ Westy is a fine thing but few mechanics know them and the vast majority of shops are an alarming combination of inept and dishonest when they get outside their comfort zone.       
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Reply #21February 22, 2020, 12:25:47 pm

festethejeste

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Re: Stuck in Victorville - any help would be appreciated
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2020, 12:25:47 pm »
Thanks again Libby. 

So they must have lied about the timing as well...

Wouldnt you see the fly wheel off from TDC mark? 

My guess was leaning toward that weak crank pulley.  Man I just want to know how it happened now for peace of mind. 


Reply #22February 22, 2020, 01:19:06 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Stuck in Victorville - any help would be appreciated
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2020, 01:19:06 pm »
The flywheel does not slip, the front sprocket slips.  The flywheel mark (it's actually a groove in the pressure plate for the diesel vanagon) will show TDC for the crankshaft regardless.  The crankshaft is what drives the pump and cam, so a slipping front crank sprocket causes both the cam and the injection pump to become retarded.  Did they pull the valve cover off to check the camshaft?
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Reply #23February 22, 2020, 01:21:03 pm

festethejeste

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Re: Stuck in Victorville - any help would be appreciated
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2020, 01:21:03 pm »
Yes they said they did. 

Checked both the cam and the pump

Something just doesn't add up with these guys...

Reply #24February 22, 2020, 10:30:10 pm

fatmobile

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Re: Stuck in Victorville - any help would be appreciated
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2020, 10:30:10 pm »
If it's the crank sprocket keyway.
 You should be able to grab the crank pully and feel it wiggle.
 There is also a bump on the crank sprocket.
 You can usually see it through the pully holes.
 It should be at 7:30 when the crank is at TDC.
If pistons hit the valves the hydraulic lifters should be cracked and spidered,.. at least.
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Reply #25February 23, 2020, 12:12:39 pm

festethejeste

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Re: Stuck in Victorville - any help would be appreciated
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2020, 12:12:39 pm »
Could something like this also damage the bottom end?  I'm assuming so. 

Like new Pistons, crank shaft etc.  Or should I just be looking for a new engine. 

I've got a lead on a rebuilt AHU but I'm not sure if would work with the old diesel bars in our vanagon or with the mechanical Giles pump. 


Reply #26February 23, 2020, 01:41:12 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Stuck in Victorville - any help would be appreciated
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2020, 01:41:12 pm »
The AHU will run very poorly with the AAZ injection pump.  In stock form the AHU had a full electronic engine management.  They can be run with a mechanical injection pump but it must be built correctly and simply bolting on an AAZ injection pump will not run well at all.

If pistons hit valves, probably the bottom end is fine.  It is possible to bend a rod or crack a piston but usually neither happens.  Just bent valves and broken lifters.   
Use, abuse or ignorance of any information is at your own risk, confirmation or refutation is your own responsibility, no further 'proof' will be given, take it or leave it, YMMV,terms subject to change without notice, avoid contact with eyes or skin, contents known to cause cancer in California

Reply #27February 23, 2020, 03:13:21 pm

festethejeste

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Re: Stuck in Victorville - any help would be appreciated
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2020, 03:13:21 pm »
Thanks Libby so for now I should start looking for a new head, head gasket, hg bolts, new crank shaft from a 1z or AHU? ( Are there any other cranks with the D shape that could work with the aaz) and d shaped sprocket and sprocket bolt?

If the aaz crank isn't ***ed is it possible to file the D shape while on the engine?

Sorry for all the questions, I appreciate y'all's time greatly


Reply #28February 23, 2020, 03:50:01 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Stuck in Victorville - any help would be appreciated
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2020, 03:50:01 pm »
I don't necessarily trust the diagnosis of the prior shop so basing decisions on that seems a little questionable.  IF there was indeed 0 compression in one of the cylinders, then pulling the head to see what the issue was would be the first step.  0 compression is typically a bent valve but you cannot be sure until the head is off an you can inspect.  The only cranks that will work properly are the AAZ and the AHU or 1Z.  Well, 1Y and AFN would also probably work but those were not offered in any vehicles in north america so quite rare.  AAZ has the notch style.  1Z and AHU have the D-shape.  If actually replacing the crankshaft you will need new main bearing cap bolts and new rod bolts as both are single-use TTY bolts.

The D-shaped cut needs to be made in a precision manner.  Trying to file or grind the shape into the end of the crank would not be accurate enough and would be VERY likely to fail quite soon after.  I actually had a jig made that allows me to cut the end of the crank with the engine still in the vehicle, using a keyway broach, but it is far more accurate than trying to freehand the shape.  Other people have made similar tools but those people are few and far between.
Use, abuse or ignorance of any information is at your own risk, confirmation or refutation is your own responsibility, no further 'proof' will be given, take it or leave it, YMMV,terms subject to change without notice, avoid contact with eyes or skin, contents known to cause cancer in California

Reply #29February 23, 2020, 10:14:52 pm

festethejeste

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Re: Stuck in Victorville - any help would be appreciated
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2020, 10:14:52 pm »
Thanks Libby.

I made a video to show you the timing.  Yes I know the notch is behind the silver notch on the flywheel I just couldn't get a good shot of it.

https://youtu.be/pmHdbM-lQ0o

I asked them about an endoscope and they said it won't really help your piston still doesn't have compression.  Yeah no *** I'd still like to know what happened right?

As far as checking what the petroleum was it's definitely diesel.  I let somebody out on my rubber glove and try to light it on fire pyro styles and it didn't light.  It did smell like diesel but I'm not an expert as this is my first diesel.

Some more questions though.  how stiff or hard should it be to turn the engine over it felt really easy considering that engine supposed to be making 300 PSI correct?