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Author Topic: 1.6TD Piston Ring differences  (Read 2608 times)

April 10, 2019, 01:42:31 pm

wil892

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1.6TD Piston Ring differences
« on: April 10, 2019, 01:42:31 pm »
Hi all,

I'm trying to purchase some new 77mm (0.5mm O/S) rings. It seems there are two different sets that can be purchased for the 1.6td where only the second compression ring seems to be made from a different material and the other rings are the same.

Below are differences in the second rings only:

Goetze 08-109807-00:
Width: 2,000 mm, Grey Cast Iron, Chromed; Phosphatized

Goetze 08-109507-00:
Width: 2,000 mm, Cast Iron with Flake Graphite, honed, Phosphatized

It seems TDI engines have their second compression rings without the chrome, but i'm not sure which set to get for my 1.6td, its a bit confusing!

Has anyone fitted these rings before? Also Goetze or Kolbenschmidt? Goetze seem more popular, but I cannot see a difference between them and the KS rings. KS also give the option of a chromed or unchromed second ring.

Thanks
Will


1991 Golf MK2 GTD

Reply #1April 11, 2019, 03:30:46 am

Dakotakid

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Re: 1.6TD Piston Ring differences
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2019, 03:30:46 am »
I am curious WHERE you are given a choice on the Goetze variants. What parts supplier?

Yes, I have installed many sets of Goetze rings and found them to be wonderful with proper cylinder wall prep (including diameter and finish). I have never had a choice as to WHICH set of rings to buy....always only had one option. I think all my Goetze rings were purchased at autohausaz.com as I buy from these guys for the bulk of my 1.6 engines.

I have found that Goetze rings seat very quickly and effortlessly with proper prep and procedure. Oil usage is very minimal and that usage generally occurs when the engines are being run a bit too gently. When run hard, they are very tight.

I have only installed two sets of KS rings: one in 1.6 and one in later ALH 1.9 engines. The KS rings are very hard to come by for the 1.6 engines......usually only being available with piston and ring combo purchases. Right now, I would not know where to purchase KS 1.6 rings....unless they are on ebay from the one seller in Lithuania.

The ALH KS rings are much easier to find for rebuilds.

In working with the two types of rings, I find that the Goetze rings are much more pliable while assembling. Both sets of the KS rings were VERY hard and a bit difficult to place in their ring lands without owning a professional spreader.

Again, I found the KS rings seated very quickly and both of my engines with KS rings have virtually NO oil consumption....and that is with synthetic oil in the ALH. VERY pleased with the KS. But, again, my prep work is VERY detailed.

As hard as the KS rings were, I was expecting them to last a long time...but, use oil. I was wrong. I really can't evaluate them for the long haul yet as I run so many different cars and none of them accrue high mileage any more.
The mask and the shot(s) are actually an IQ test. If you are wearing or circulating, you just failed the test. I can't feel sorry for you.

Reply #2April 12, 2019, 02:35:22 pm

Dakotakid

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Re: 1.6TD Piston Ring differences
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2019, 02:35:22 pm »
Have you made ANY attempt to contact the supplier of the rings?
I would think that a chrome ring would be harder than the alternative. It would probably be fussier on proper break-in.....slower to break-in......more particular as to whether or not you hae a very perfect cylinder bore and correct hone, etc.

If the chrome ring did seat properly....one would probably expect longer service life. But, successful break-in will be the determining factor.

At least in my head. As I recall, many of the big Ford 460 v-8's had chrome rings. They ate oil with regularity....but, would run a LONG time like that. Provided you could REMOTELY pay for the fuel....or siphon it from the neighbors.
The mask and the shot(s) are actually an IQ test. If you are wearing or circulating, you just failed the test. I can't feel sorry for you.

Reply #3April 14, 2019, 05:05:07 am

wil892

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Re: 1.6TD Piston Ring differences
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2019, 05:05:07 am »
Hi dakota,

Thanks for your replies sorry I havent replied sooner!

Kolbenschmidt website lists two different sets of rings available for all 1.6D and TD engine, part numbers below:
800000611050 - Ring set at 0.5mm without chrome second ring
800000610050 - Ring set at 0.5mm with chrome second ring

This catalogue is here (page 780): https://cdn2.ms-motorservice.com/fileadmin/media/MAM/PDF_Assets/Kolbenrings%C3%A4tze-Piston-ring-sets-Jeux-de-segments-Juegos-de-segmentos-%D0%9D%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%8B-%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%88%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B2%D1%8B%D1%85-%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%86_51670.pdf

Goetze list chrome middle rings for 1.6TD only, then non chromed for all 1.6 N/A (pages 971-972):

https://www.fmmotorparts.eu/content/dam/marketing/emea/fmmp/ecat/EMEA_CAT_GT_PISTON%20RINGS_CATGT1901_2019-2021_EN_HQ.pdf

However, the original VW part number 068198155C for the 0.5mm oversize ring set references rings without chrome for all engines.

I know this sounds like i'm looking too much into it just wanting to make sure I get the right parts but at the same time I want an engine which doesn't burn oil! If i'm honest I think i'd rather get the non-chromed middle ring set, just wanting to know if it would be detrimental to the turbo engine.

AAZ engines seem to have the same options, but TDI engines all have ring sets without the chrome middle ring.
1991 Golf MK2 GTD

Reply #4April 15, 2019, 12:01:04 am

Dakotakid

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Re: 1.6TD Piston Ring differences
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2019, 12:01:04 am »
Crap....I knew I should have written down the number on a new set of Goetze I have in my storage unit. I was in there today looking for some thrust bearings....and ran across a new set of rings. I do believe they were the ....507 number on them.

Do you have any idea which KS rings are commonly sold on replacement piston sets? I stole/borrowed/took the rings off  my set of KS pistons to run on some other pistons. And, I gotta tell you.....I am VERY happy with those rings which accompany the pistons.

You failed to state you are in GB...right? You have a wider selection of stuff than we do in USA.

If a guy does go with the chrome ring.....my question would be: does the chrome ring require a DIFFERENT/SPECIFIC cylinder wall hone versus the more common softer ring? I bet it does.

Anyway, my own hone is a rather standard crosshatch hone you see I all the generic photos. I do well with either ring. Apparently, the chrome rings handle heat much better over time.
The mask and the shot(s) are actually an IQ test. If you are wearing or circulating, you just failed the test. I can't feel sorry for you.

 

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