Author Topic: ALH turbo oil feed line leak  (Read 1051 times)

February 27, 2020, 07:11:29 pm

Chuck1978

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ALH turbo oil feed line leak
« on: February 27, 2020, 07:11:29 pm »
2002 Jetta TDI wagon, ALH engine.
It recently developed a massive oil leak from the exact same place my old 1983 1.6TD engine in the rabbit pickup has had numerous leaks, the compression fitting on the oil feed line to the turbo.

I suspected it was another cracked line like I keep having problems with on the 1.6.
With it running & looking down there with a flashlight in a mirror, I could see all kinds of oil welling up out of the 17 mm hex fitting / line junction.

So I managed to finagle the line out of there today to inspect it, and I couldn't see any cracks at all. compression fitting looks very much like the one on my old IDI turbo engine, except that it is 9.5 mm line size, jumping down to 8 mm line size for the rest of the line, within an inch of where it meets the turbo. On the IDI, the entire line is 8 mm. I used brass plumbing compression fittings for 5/16" line on that when the line cracked, and it worked perfectly.

Now on this one, the tapered steel compression fitting does not seem to slip down over the line much further than 2mm, as when I look inside of it, I can see the end of the line, and it is pretty deep inside that I can see it near the other end.

so I was cleaning it off with brake parts cleaner, and I noticed that when I would shoot brake parts cleaner through the inside of the compression fitting into the line, it was spraying out where the fitting is supposed to be compressed on to the line. aha, there's my leak I thought!
After discovering the line didn't go but 2mm into the fitting, I wondered if it was supposed to be brazed on to the fitting or something of that sort??? as the tapered part of the fitting that would get compressed when signing on to the turbo, does not compress the line in any way like I thought they did. Maybe the old Rabbit / Quantum 1.6TD line was the same way and I just connected it in an alternate way?
« Last Edit: February 29, 2020, 09:22:53 am by Chuck1978 »



Reply #1February 28, 2020, 01:44:33 pm

Chuck1978

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Re: ALH turbo oil feed line leak
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2020, 01:44:33 pm »
Well actually spent extensive time last night looking into this both online and with the parts I have.
I tried heating the compression ferrule up red hot and tapping on it with a block of wood to drive it back down further on to the line. It did not budge one bit.
I got a better look at the inside of it and it seemed like it was barely on the line at all, maybe not even one millimeter.
I compared it to the compression fitting which I removed from the line on my 1983 1.6TD code CY engine on my 82 rabbit pickup. They looked very very similar but had some slight differences.
I couldn't determine much more after taking a Scotch-Brite pad to it to clean it up. I was thinking maybe the fitting was brazed on to the line, and the brazing joint had cracked. the other end of the line has a banjo fitting that is permanently attached to the line, possibly brazed or somehow welded.

I took a wire brush to it to clean it up even further, and I was able to notice what look like flaring tool clamping marks and or the seam of this tubing, unless it is seamless tubing. Then I took another very close look and noticed that this ridge that would be a seam or mark from a flaring tool clamping onto it, also traveled up the first face of the compression fitting, where the big 17 mm hex nut with seat on to it to pull it into the turbo fitting.

It was then that I was realizing that even though this looks just like the older turbos that have a separate steel compression fitting that slips over the line, this appears to be a formed compression fit tapered and that was made similar to a brake line tubing flare, with a press set up at the factory, formed out of the end of the line. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems the only explanation for this after I examined it closely. Taking a zoomed-in cell phone photo and zooming in further on that, further confirmed my suspicions.

I'm attempting to link to a photo hosted elsewhere. It does not seem as if this forum is capable of hosting photos any longer?



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« Last Edit: February 29, 2020, 09:25:10 am by Chuck1978 »

Reply #2February 28, 2020, 02:03:42 pm

Chuck1978

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Re: ALH turbo oil feed line leak
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2020, 02:03:42 pm »

photos are of 1983 mechanical lifter 1.6 turbo compression fitting that looks "ALMOST"  exactly like what I believe is a formed fitting on the line of this ALH turbo that is still on the line in the photo.


Reply #3February 28, 2020, 02:06:42 pm

Chuck1978

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Re: ALH turbo oil feed line leak
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2020, 02:06:42 pm »



Yellow arrow is drawn on photo where the tubing seam or flaring tool type clamping marks are. You can see this seam or mark as a ridge that also continues up the very first face of the fitting at the top yellow arrow. This makes me think it is a formed fitting made out of the line itself.


Reply #4February 28, 2020, 02:09:57 pm

Chuck1978

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Re: ALH turbo oil feed line leak
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2020, 02:09:57 pm »
Kerma TDI sells a stainless braided PTFE line with appropriate fittings to replace this very rigid and easily crackable hardline, for $90. I have found a few posts on tdiclub where people have made their own line with the non crimp, mechanical fastening type of DIY braided stainless line fittings and PTFE core stainless braided hoses. For anywhere between $40 and $90. A hydraulic hose shop can probably crimp up a line like this for around $40 if you know the exact fittings to use. I can post a link later, lunch break over for now.
Search for a hydraulic hose shop that is in Aeroquip dealer or similar. That is a big name and stainless braided hoses. Russell, Earl's, etc. It will have to be a manufacturer who not only offers brake lines but specifically oil line fittings. They are a - 4AN or 4 JIC (?). size. M12 x 1.5 and M10 x 1.0 ends fot the ALH.
 Different thread pitches.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2020, 09:29:40 am by Chuck1978 »

Reply #5February 28, 2020, 02:50:09 pm

Chuck1978

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Re: ALH turbo oil feed line leak
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2020, 02:50:09 pm »
DIY stainless braided PTFE line:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=361513


Copy & paste from above link:
Any half decent hydraulic shop can make what you need.
You need:
M10x1 to 1/4" MJIC adpater
M12x1.5 to 1/4" MJIC adapter
90* 1/4" FJIC to MJIC elbow
45* 1/4" FJIC to MJIC elbow
30" long 1/4" braided stainless hose with straight 1/4" FJIC ends

1/4" JIC is also known as -4AN in the industry. Depends on who you talk to and what line of work they mainly cater to.
----------------------------
The oil supply comes off of the aluminum oil filter housing and is a M12 x 1.5 female hole. The steel turbocharger destination is a M10 x 1.0 hole. I wasn’t successful in finding anyone local to put a hose together, so I compiled a list of parts:
Oil supply line, Turbocharger, braided steel -4 AN 36”, Turbonetics 10724
Metric adapter male 12mm x 1.5 to male -4 AN, Russell 670440
Metric adapter male 10mm x 1.0 to male -4 AN, Russell 670500
Coupler fitting, 90 degrees -4 AN to male -4 AN, Russell 614804
Coupler fitting, 45 degrees -4 AN to male -4 AN Russell 614704
Also needed: a 10 mm and 12mm crush washer for the metric adapters into the turbo and oil filter housing. I got all of the above from Summit Racing Equipment. They ship faster than anyone. My cost was just under $100, almost what vendors get for hard steel lines. I also cleaned both of the metric holes with Q-tips and alcohol and used Permatex High Temperature Thread Sealant PX# 59214 on the metric adapters for leak-free peace of mind
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« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 02:57:33 pm by Chuck1978 »

Reply #6February 28, 2020, 02:53:22 pm

Chuck1978

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Re: ALH turbo oil feed line leak
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2020, 02:53:22 pm »
Pre-made factory crimped braided stainless PTFE oil line from Kerma TDI:


https://kermatdi.com/i-74-braided-steel-turbo-oil-supply-line-for-tdi.html


Reply #7February 28, 2020, 03:01:29 pm

Chuck1978

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Re: ALH turbo oil feed line leak
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2020, 03:01:29 pm »

Reply #8February 28, 2020, 03:07:59 pm

Chuck1978

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Re: ALH turbo oil feed line leak
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2020, 03:07:59 pm »
I dug out my spare ALH turbo to investigate, as installed on the engine, the best you can do without removing the turbo is to use a mirror on a stick, & a flashlight, to crudely inspect the area.
The entire fitting that the oil line threads into looks to be a crush-washer-sealed fitting that threads in to the turbo, so these aftermarket lines must require that fitting to be removed. I can check to see if this is the M10x1.0 male thread mentioned in the DIY s.s. braided line descriptions.




Sorry for the blurry photo. I hope these are showing up, as I tried to UBB Code link the images here from social media...



Reply #9February 28, 2020, 08:45:16 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: ALH turbo oil feed line leak
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2020, 08:45:16 pm »
I'd recommend the one from Darkside.  Installing or removing the banjo is way easier in the future. 
Use, abuse or ignorance of any information is at your own risk, confirmation or refutation is your own responsibility, no further 'proof' will be given, take it or leave it, YMMV,terms subject to change without notice, avoid contact with eyes or skin, contents known to cause cancer in California

Reply #10February 29, 2020, 09:33:30 am

Chuck1978

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Re: ALH turbo oil feed line leak
« Reply #10 on: February 29, 2020, 09:33:30 am »
Yes, the other option eliminates the banjo, & sticks straight out of the oil filter/cooler housing. Banjo keeps it more tidy.

Reply #11March 01, 2020, 08:12:24 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: ALH turbo oil feed line leak
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2020, 08:12:24 pm »
The banjo is a bigger improvement at the turbo than at the filter housing.  Having a banjo at the turbo end allows you to use a socket straight down on it instead of wrestling with a flare nut or open end wrench in the very tight location.   
Use, abuse or ignorance of any information is at your own risk, confirmation or refutation is your own responsibility, no further 'proof' will be given, take it or leave it, YMMV,terms subject to change without notice, avoid contact with eyes or skin, contents known to cause cancer in California