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Author Topic: Rebuilding: 1.6TD JX Turbo Diesel engine  (Read 7475 times)

October 16, 2017, 10:39:30 am

epowell

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Rebuilding: 1.6TD JX Turbo Diesel engine
« on: October 16, 2017, 10:39:30 am »
Hi Folks

I am now beginning to take steps towards my long-range goal of rebuilding a spare JX block that I acquired. I would seriously like some help with this undertaking since I have never done such a thing previously. It will still be some time before I actually begin the work > in the meantime I would now like to begin to read and study up on just exactly is going to be required in terms of procedure, tools, skills, specs, shop help... etc. Does anyone know of any good threads (here or elsewhere) documenting this? Any other sources of info which might be useful?

My extra JX block is in very good condition except for that one cylinder got a bit rusty during storage and will certainly need some machining. So can I assume that my first major step would be to find a top notch local machinist - take the block there - get their opinions regarding what work will be required?

How else can I now prepare myself for this project?

Thanks!
Edward



Reply #1October 16, 2017, 01:31:58 pm

air-cooled or diesel

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Re: Rebuilding: 1.6TD JX Turbo Diesel engine
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2017, 01:31:58 pm »
some rust, or less like you say 'a bit' of rust should probably never really have to need a machine shop. for one its usually/probably over-kill, for another it ll be expensive, for most likely a little need. i, when prepping cyls, take 330 wet or dry. you sand in a cylindrical,circular angle motion, going both ways, down cylinders, for this you only have to hit/sand ring 'lands' and right around this area. the lower area just has to be clean. i use kerosene for lube of sandpaper. if you have to, use 220(wet or dry), and go over later. like i said the lower area the ring doesnt get close to you can sand/touch up with finer stuff. or a light type of 'honing' job, lightly run a hone and get that rust off. for storage, Do lube all internal & gasket surfaces. use light oil, i prefer quality syn oil. dont get lube down water jacket, although you want to lube head gasket surface, and i cover with plastic. again id lube the water flange surfaces, and cover, again dont get oil down there, as it ll run water when you get it together. the under side of motor, if oil pan is removed, (id remove pan-&>)wants a coat of lube, all of it, it can be a chore, however its all bare metal here, and can rust quite easily, again cover, or put an oil pan on, prefer with a gasket, limits air flow down there.
if your going to take to a shop, the one thing youd want to do,start with, if motor isnt new, is replace both intermed.,-shaft bearings. would be a real plus+.

Reply #2October 16, 2017, 03:17:52 pm

epowell

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Re: Rebuilding: 1.6TD JX Turbo Diesel engine
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2017, 03:17:52 pm »
Here are some pics...   note the one 'rusty' cylinder. Does this one not need machine work?

I guess I should take the pistons to the machine shop also to see if I can re-use them, or some of them???




First 3 "clean" cylinders



Rusty cylinder


Rusty cylinder after a bit of light sanding




Reply #3October 16, 2017, 03:48:28 pm

RunninWild

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Re: Rebuilding: 1.6TD JX Turbo Diesel engine
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2017, 03:48:28 pm »
take the block crank, main caps, rods and pistons to a machine shop. Have them magnaflux and hot tank the block and measure the clearances for everything. When you have that information you will know what needs to be done. That will tell you what parts you need to order and what kind of machining work you will need. You are probably looking at getting the cylinders bored and honed and the deck skimmed. The crank is usually in spec and just needs a polishing, but its possible your main caps need line boring. Its also easiest to get the shop to install new rod bushings and im shaft bearings as they are a pain. The final assembly you can do yourself and is fairly easy if you take your time. Get a bentley, it will go over all the steps you need to take when assembling the block. theres engine assembly videos on youtube, as well as videos on how to check ring gap and piston protrusion. Just take your time and good luck. I built my first aaz in the spring, was great fun.

Reply #4October 16, 2017, 04:29:24 pm

epowell

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Re: Rebuilding: 1.6TD JX Turbo Diesel engine
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2017, 04:29:24 pm »
That sounds like a good plan...   first find a machine-shop then take the stuff there.

I managed myself (on my current JX in my van) to change the front IM-SHAFT bearings with Libby's guidance, I made a tool for that, and it actually went well. So I should be able to do that again myself.

The Bentley only covers the CS engine - not the JX...    is this good enough?



Reply #5October 16, 2017, 05:00:10 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Rebuilding: 1.6TD JX Turbo Diesel engine
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2017, 05:00:10 pm »
I'd be very surprised if that could be cleaned up and brought into spec without being bored over and new pistons fitted.  As mentioned, find a decent machine shop (one that knows VW diesels) and get the block checked out.  If it passes magnaflux, then order up some oversize pistons, have it bored, etc, etc... 


Reply #6October 16, 2017, 05:09:40 pm

epowell

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Re: Rebuilding: 1.6TD JX Turbo Diesel engine
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2017, 05:09:40 pm »
find a decent machine shop (one that knows VW diesels)

Around here VW T3's are not too common - however T4s and other 90's and 00's VW and SKODA diesels are very common. Do you think that is close enough - or should it be a shop that really knows the 80's VW Diesels?  Is there a big diff.?

Reply #7October 16, 2017, 06:23:07 pm

RunninWild

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Re: Rebuilding: 1.6TD JX Turbo Diesel engine
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2017, 06:23:07 pm »
The diesels are machined to tight tolerances, much tighter then most shops are used to and comfortable with. If you explain that to them and make sure they go by spec rather then rule of thumb you should be fine.

Front im shaft bearings are easy, its the rear one that are the pain. Just get the shop to press them in, it will save you the headache of finding or building a special tool.

Not much difference between the engine codes. The shop will tell you what size bearings to order. On assembly you use plasti-gauge to measure clearance to confirm everything is in spec for the crank. A Bentley isn't necessary, all the information can be found online through google. Ring gap is measured with feeler gauges and you will need a ring compressor for installing the pistons. A ring tool is helpful as well. just make sure everything is as clean as possible, check everything twice and use new hardware and torque everything to spec. Also use high quality bearings and piston rings. I've heard prothes pistons are decent and affordable but his rings are junk.

Reply #8October 16, 2017, 09:47:25 pm

air-cooled or diesel

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Re: Rebuilding: 1.6TD JX Turbo Diesel engine
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2017, 09:47:25 pm »
i think some of that is over-kill. i mean its by the book. so the cyls have some appearance of rust, some is 'below' the surface. a good sanding job of cylinders should be sufficient. i mean its not going to be 'perfect'. for one the ring ridge isnt a wear ridge, you can see the top ring, and combustion chamber, area. so it has some rust. the pistons look quite good. from the one side there is a wearing place. they may well be good.
the gasket surfaces esp. the head gasket area, id take steel wool, maybe course steel wool, i put kero in a spray bottle and try to clean up that/those surfaces. dont try with sand paper. doesnt have to be perfect. better is better, and may well be ok. block looks low, not too much usage. one thing looking at water jacket, seems some build up in these. they may want some flush out.
magnaflux, what kind of price can you find. for one as i recall a good magnaflux job isnt cheap, for the price you putting at least part, maybe more of what a new, or pro-prepped block may cost. to tell the truth your block looks real good, it would have been better to lube lightly and perhaps to prevent the rust, or most of it.
the one piston has one shinny spot, perhaps a wear spot, one spot, may not be a problem, again the second pic of pistons, the prev piston<is the one all the way to the right. the one next to it, at the forward, has a wear area there, some, may be about nothing. again the first pic, the one piston all the way to the/our left has a little wear. check corresponding on the block, cyls check there for a pattern.
you can prob find measuring tools at like sears. i mean its not expensive and its, well, ok as far as accuracy. get a manual and check block, and parts. you can get a good enough measurement to tell a lot. it just takes some patience and is time consuming. like the cyls and the pistons something like 4 corresponding measurements tells you quite a bit.
you can lightly hone cyls if you want,
and the mains dont usually just need an 'align'-ment, i mean what im looking at is low uasge, not much wear. if you can imagine the need, cost of a shop checking the mains, hey if you dont its not been fully checked out, and/or deemed 'perfect'. >if it were high mileage, or looked beat on, yes it may need to be checked. yours just looks like it was stored uncovered & dry. get almost all the rust cleaned up, you will have no problems, maybe it ll all clean up, needs elbo-grease.

Reply #9October 16, 2017, 11:42:28 pm

Dakotakid

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Re: Rebuilding: 1.6TD JX Turbo Diesel engine
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2017, 11:42:28 pm »
I never realized Claude Monet did cylinder walls! Cooooool.

Check to see if you are currently sporting first (original bore) pistons. It is going to take at least 0.50 mm to de-Monet it.
The mask and the shot(s) are actually an IQ test. If you are wearing or circulating, you just failed the test. I can't feel sorry for you.

Reply #10October 16, 2017, 11:44:00 pm

Tmarkle

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Re: Rebuilding: 1.6TD JX Turbo Diesel engine
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2017, 11:44:00 pm »
Glad to see this thread come along, as I am going to be rebuilding a motor soon as well (once hunting season is over that is LOL).


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1985 Jetta 1.6 NA, Project
1981 Rabbit 1.5 diesel SOLD
1980 Dasher, also a project
1993 Passat GLX VR6 (daily driver)
1992 Toyota Pickup, 350 V8 swapped
1997 Jetta TDI, engine donor for a diesel powered Toyota!
1986 Toyota Custom Cab

Reply #11October 16, 2017, 11:46:35 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Rebuilding: 1.6TD JX Turbo Diesel engine
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2017, 11:46:35 pm »
air-cooled and diesel, I think you are not understanding his goal.  His current engine runs fine.  He would like to rebuild a spare engine to install at a later date.  I don't get the feeling he wants to cobble together an engine that might work 'good enough' for a little while.  While the gist of what you are saying might make sense as a way to eek out a few more miles from an engine if you're on a shoestring budget, none of what you are recommending fits into an actual engine REBUILD.

My machinist charges $25 to dip the case and another $25 to magnaflux it.  That's money well spent, IMO.  Cracked cases are not common, but I magnafluxing has turned up two for me.  Never good news, but much better than the cost in labor and materials building up an engine that will have issues.   
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 11:48:22 pm by libbydiesel »

Reply #12October 17, 2017, 03:56:32 am

epowell

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Re: Rebuilding: 1.6TD JX Turbo Diesel engine
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2017, 03:56:32 am »
Yes I like very much to hear about how it can be done *on a budget* and how it can be done *for performance* > this range gives me some idea of how far I can go in either direction if 'issues' unexpectedly arise.

The good news is that here in the Czech Rep. shop time is WAY cheaper than in the US - however parts can be a bit more costly. Yes as Andrew pointed out my current engine is fine and considering how I drive would most likely last me for another 10 years!   ...so, although I don't enjoy spewing out tons of cash, my goal is to rebuild this JX to as good/new a condition as reasonably possible.

My assumption is that the major expenses are going to be:
1) new pistons ($80 each?)
2) machine shop work ($400 ?  ...remember prices are less than half over here)
3) sets of bearings and gaskets

Perhaps I will need to buy or rent some sort of engine lifting tool to remove and install for the swap.

Question: what does it mean "CHECK THE MAINS"? 

Is it worthwhile to have the block sandblasted and then paint it?

Thanks for all of these replies...

At the same time that I will eventually swap the engine, I would also like to swap the gearbox > just to keep things clean I will start a new thread concerning that.

Reply #13October 17, 2017, 07:57:15 am

air-cooled or diesel

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Re: Rebuilding: 1.6TD JX Turbo Diesel engine
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2017, 07:57:15 am »
so a 'JX' block appears about '84, non-turbo, mechanical. i had a '84, although this one was a hydro, quite forget the engine code. that was sometime ago by now,,.

     -we have an assortment of aspiring, and perhaps last attempt of a generation, and dying out, to get and/or keep these old, and in comparison to todays mechanicals, very reliable. most of our members are on a budget, quite a few have some or limited experience in mechanics, or specifically diesels. for one i wasnt necessarily on a shoestring budget. however as O P states he does have budget concerns. another, im definitely not the type nor do i 'eek out a few more miles'. some of the machine suggestions are square and by-the-book. on the one hand a visual and a good clean up here leaves out some things that *could possibly come up as mileage adds up. you want to take to a shop and get him to clean up, not a bad idea, a lot of that clean up can be done by hand. the gasket surfaces by steel wool and i use kero, scrub,scrub. the inside of cyls, they look real good, aside from some unsightly rust. that rust can get sandpapered, again use with kero. whats left will be inconsequential. with a proper assembly it will be fine. one question what are measurements in the cylinders? you *can do this yourself, it may not be machine shop accurate, but it ll be close. unless you fancy using a machine shop (for this) and shelling out extra, all the more to you. if its called for im not against it. he doesnt need a blue-print, and neither is he building a performance motor. even the pistons he has there, visually at a glance they may be usable, no real major wear seen. some measuring and you ll find out (the rest).
a couple of suggestions at a glance to over-bore cylinders? i mean at a glance the cylinders may have very little wear on them. a few measurements will tell you. if it cleans up and fits stock piston sizes. i mean why take a rare stock block and butcher it just from the door. if its out of spec, thats one thing, even there you may consider another good or new or remaned block, or short block. if it ll still take stock sizes id go with it. there is no ring land, from what i can see in the pic, you see the combustion chamber area. it may clean up good, as far as specs, you need to measure, or have shop take measurements. from there sandpaper (&kero) will put a pattern for rings to seat, or you can have shop do it.

Question: what does it mean "CHECK THE MAINS"? 
my comment on 'check mains' was referring to the main saddles. one is out of round. if you had measurements, you could possibly do this and get some idea yourself. the second is straightness, or align. this you will need a machine shop to check. hence one of the suggestions, and the *possible need of an line boring. not my favorite subject. one, it ll only hurt the pockets to get it checked, no real problem here, the other point it wont hurt to know/be sure.

wow thats long  :o  ;D

Reply #14October 17, 2017, 08:27:29 am

epowell

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Re: Rebuilding: 1.6TD JX Turbo Diesel engine
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2017, 08:27:29 am »
From my understanding this engine want condemned because of a blown head gasket only...  as far as I know the engine was working really well and had relatively low mileage - certainly, from working on it and my current engine - my current engine is much older and more worn out by a long shot. My guess is that the 3 'good' cylinders might work fine with those pistons but I'm not sure about that rusted cylinder...  the rust is not super deep but to get it off/out means that there are depressions noticeable with fingers. Is it possible just to get ONE cylinder machined and only ONE new piston > or should they all be changed if just one needs changing?

I think measuring would be a good idea...  can anyone suggest what would be the minimum of measuring tools I would need to buy for this. I have standard digital calipers, but I guess those are not good enough? 
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 08:29:04 am by epowell »

 

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