S-PAutomotive.com

Author Topic: 1.6TD low on power  (Read 6084 times)

October 11, 2017, 06:27:58 am

Norsker

  • User+

  • Offline
  • *

  • 24
1.6TD low on power
« on: October 11, 2017, 06:27:58 am »
Hello!
Fairly new to the forum but i thought i would start with the most important issue on my Golf II TD.. Its lack of power

I got the car rolled today and it put out a measly 78PS with around 1.3BAR boost, 2,5" turboback exhaust, 1.9 AAZ head.
What could be a possible culprit to this? I have looked at the boost gauge while driving and nothing seems out of the ordinary..
Hope anyone has some experience with what figures these engines can put out.



Reply #1October 12, 2017, 07:07:25 am

Norsker

  • User+

  • Offline
  • *

  • 24
Re: 1.6TD low on power
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2017, 07:07:25 am »
Aaaaaand an update!

I turned the pump WAY up, and now it builds boost to 1.5bar as i have it set to via bleeder valve. However the car puts out some "blueish" smoke from the exhaust when idling, warm or cold engine.

Can this be a blown headgasket or am i just worrying too much? I want to get the car in tip top shape for when the cold REALLY hits me here  ;D

Reply #2October 12, 2017, 07:08:43 pm

libbydiesel

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3416
Re: 1.6TD low on power
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2017, 07:08:43 pm »
1.6TD with AAZ head - excessive smoke at idle and part pedal would be expected.  It's probably not any issue with the head gasket.  It's probably just unburned/partially burned fuel because the compression is too low due to the oversized pre-combustion chambers in the head.  You should expect hard starts in cold weather also.   

Reply #3October 13, 2017, 04:12:06 am

Norsker

  • User+

  • Offline
  • *

  • 24
Re: 1.6TD low on power
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2017, 04:12:06 am »
Thanks Libby!
Is there anything i can do to combat the hard cold starts? Rarely drops below -10c here but I don't wanna turn up late for work
Also is there a "definitive" guide to main fuel screw, idle and "smoke screw" settings? If i turn down my main fuel screw too much (to avoid annoying everyone else with my smoke) i'm not building the kind of boost im looking for, should i look into the smoke screw then?
I'm sorry for all the newbie questions, only things i've worked on before were 2 stroke mopeds.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 04:15:42 am by Norsker »

Reply #4October 13, 2017, 11:18:19 am

RunninWild

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 609
Re: 1.6TD low on power
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2017, 11:18:19 am »
There's only so much you can do. Like Libby said the low compression will create smoke and no amount of adjustments will make up for it. Its just a Smokey combination which is why most people dont run it. A block heater or oil pan heater would be your best bet for cold starts.

Reply #5October 13, 2017, 02:06:14 pm

air-cooled or diesel

  • Guest
Re: 1.6TD low on power
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2017, 02:06:14 pm »
Is there anything i can do to combat the hard cold starts? Rarely drops below -10c here
bosch glow plugs working correctly, do you have mechanical cold start handle hooked up, if so timing it properly(to start), that means in one aspect before you start timing procedure you make sure cold start handle is pressed in. id say added fuel winterizer, but that will be most effective where winterized diesel gels, it may help tho.
is it the duratherm bosch glow plugs we are now recommending, forget exactly which one, not bosch tho, only bosch. as i tend to use a std bosch.

-oh yea, extended glow cycle if needed is a nice trick, if you have stock GP setup, cycle key again, on a really cold day 3 times may be called for.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 02:08:21 pm by air-cooled or diesel »

Reply #6October 13, 2017, 05:22:28 pm

Norsker

  • User+

  • Offline
  • *

  • 24
Re: 1.6TD low on power
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2017, 05:22:28 pm »
Yeah i got the key cycling tip from a mate ;)
So far it has no troubles starting up in the mornings, even though temperatures are starting to hit freezing in the nights.
If i pull the choke lever or idle regulator or w/e it is, it runs rough for about 2-3 seconds then starts running properly (for a cold diesel at least)
I may try a block heater if it gets really cold. So far i just want a little less smoke while driving in the city.
Dragging a smoke cloud behind me when accelerating just a bit faster than an old lady, isn't all that appealing to me  :P
I might have to try playing with the timing, however i'm the type of person who needs someone to show me, or a picture guide
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 05:25:28 pm by Norsker »

Reply #7October 13, 2017, 06:44:07 pm

air-cooled or diesel

  • Guest
Re: 1.6TD low on power
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2017, 06:44:07 pm »
im not one for 'new' guys &/or 'new' tries on timing. & dont think at the same, inexperienced should try 'playing' with timing. its critical to get right, and it can be for multiple engine parts(when it goes wrong). it takes more than a few steps, in order. other than that my instruction here is limited.

1-it may be your 1.9 aaz head coupled to a 1.6.
2-your cold start may not, either, be hooked up, or working,(-or correctly).
3-it may be your timing, including prev timing job being done incorrectly. one way to do wrong is to forget to 'push in' cold start. this is what your referring to as w/e or choke lever. its not a gas engine, and it would need a carb to be a choke. so old school, when was the last time you studied engines?  ;D ,jk.

for one as i dont have much experience in a 1.9 head put on 1.6's id say most likely thats your problem. the other suggestion, like i posted prev, is update your glowplugs. specifically>bosch. i think this site recommends durathrem or something like that. quite forget exactly which one right now.

Reply #8October 13, 2017, 07:05:11 pm

libbydiesel

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3416
Re: 1.6TD low on power
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2017, 07:05:11 pm »
Glow plugs won't help after the engine is running.  You might advance the timing a bit.  If that doesn't clear the smoke, then put the right head on it. 

Reply #9October 13, 2017, 07:39:40 pm

air-cooled or diesel

  • Guest
Re: 1.6TD low on power
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2017, 07:39:40 pm »
thinking about it, one way to generally check if cold-start handle is working. with engine fully warmed up, handle having been pushed in already. let idle, pull handle, you should notice a change in idle, it should go up, some. suffice to say its working if this happens.
^push handle back in.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 07:42:39 pm by air-cooled or diesel »

Reply #10October 13, 2017, 10:48:36 pm

ORCoaster

  • Moderator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 4386
  • Personal Text
    Restoring a Caddy as time and weather allows
Re: 1.6TD low on power
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2017, 10:48:36 pm »
Nosker,  Welcome to the best place for diesel knowledge.  Is there any chance you have a Bentley manual to reference for how to time the engine?  Being that you're new here are you new to diesels too?   Most of our teaching, coaching and such really is for those that have worked some on a diesel and understand the mechanics of them.

You can change the timing with out having the tools and some of us do it all the time.  We simply loosen the four bolts that are on the Injection Pump, (aka IP) and either push the pump towards the engine to advance the timing, generally for easier starts or pull it towards the front of the car to retard it, generally to get rid of the heavy clacking or marble sounds. 

Having the Bentley will show you the three places on the front of the IP and the one way down underneath that need to be loosened.  I start with the one behind the timing belt cover on my 1.6 L. That takes getting it lined up by turning the crank some.  I have two holes in the IP pulley that are large enough to slide a long 13 mm socket wrench in there and get it loose.  Then I hit the one down under the IP near the hose to the water pump. And then I need to switch to wrenches for the top two. I only loosen the back one then start the car.  I come back around and ever so slowly loosen the front top bolt with a hand on the pump as it will want to twist on you.  Once the bolt is loose I push/pull on the top of the pump and snug that front bolt back tight.  Shut off the engine and tighten the rest.  I may get lucky at times and the one behind the guard is lined up.  If not a 17 mm wrench and a little tug on the crank bolt and I can get to it.  If you don't have a deep 13 mm socket that won't work for you.  You don't want to loose a socket off an extension in there. 

Hope that helps.  But really if you want to "own" this diesel you really need to own a Bentley too.


Opps edit time.  I forgot to mention the release of the tension on the injector nuts on the back of the pump and the injectors themselves but I see that was caught already and mentioned.
But there is an issue of how much to move the pump in the first place.  Do make that decision you have to index or note where the mark on the injector pump bracket is at and then only move it slightly, and I am talking a pencil width of a line from the index mark.  It is just as easy to make a line across the top of the pump and bracket both BEFORE you start the whole process.  That way you can always put it back to where you had it to keep it running.



 
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 10:45:12 pm by ORCoaster »

Reply #11October 14, 2017, 12:55:26 am

libbydiesel

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3416
Re: 1.6TD low on power
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2017, 12:55:26 am »
...hopefully there is a clear line for the feed to the pump and even better if clear on the return also.  Any air in the lines?  Air in the fuel will cause it to smoke. 

Reply #12October 14, 2017, 03:19:26 am

air-cooled or diesel

  • Guest
Re: 1.6TD low on power
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2017, 03:19:26 am »
two suggestions about OR's post. one when finished adjusting pump timing, Dont forget to loosen all injection line connections, all 8 and re-snug. i also think the crank bolt is 19mm. & its a socket(1/2").
prefer to time pump at first using dial method. should be in the faq section, look for timing section. after getting a dial 'value' you can try that out, and after use OR's advice to 'run time'. think there are posts/threads about timing (adjustment) while running, and somethings to look for. its been a while.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 03:23:22 am by air-cooled or diesel »

Reply #13October 14, 2017, 10:25:34 am

air-cooled or diesel

  • Guest
Re: 1.6TD low on power
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2017, 10:25:34 am »
Glow plugs won't help after the engine is running.

Is there anything i can do to combat the hard cold starts? Rarely drops below -10c here

one of his concerns is hard cold starts. good, quality, strong glow plugs, as wells as current flow, & system, usually the relay, will help a lot in all cold situations. a weak, old, tired set up, usually new bosch GPs does it, will make cold starts (more) difficult, its also common to not be able to get an older diesel started, can leave you stranded, and possibly wondering whats wrong.
good GPs can also help during the first few seconds, can help with hard running.
So far i just want a little less smoke while driving in the city.
Dragging a smoke cloud behind me when accelerating just a bit faster than an old lady, isn't all that appealing to me  :P
^this is one of his concerns while(as i state above) new GPs (and good current flow, at the same time) *can help with this, mostly in the first few seconds of running, hard running. other information in posts apply here, head is going to be the main problem here, timing adjustment may well be best way of getting to run better. although its not my favorite subject for inexperienced practitioners(mechanics).
^i had forgot to mention in (one of) my prev posts. if you send to a shop for timing,(help or adjustment. or the whole thing) it gets expensive. for the cost i cannt say whether its worth it. then again i ve also gotten a car back from a shop who did timing, is supposed to be a reliable shop, timing job was marginal. a lot (off) for the cost.
another thing getting a diesel, these old girls to run in the cold (& colder weather) isnt exactly easy. they can be hard to start, and run rough until it warms up.
as far as glow plugs, you have my one bit of advice, another is current going in, another is grounding.
another thing as i had mentioned prev is adding winterizer additive, it should help with initial starting, and should help until engine gets some warmth.
sry for all the information. and the lengthy post.

Reply #14October 15, 2017, 08:31:34 am

Norsker

  • User+

  • Offline
  • *

  • 24
Re: 1.6TD low on power
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2017, 08:31:34 am »
Thanks for all your input everyone!
I have two mates who are mechanics, although they have never worked on old diesels like this before either. We do thoroughly read everything you say to us, and some of their master mechanics at their shops have worked on the 1.6 N/A and TD before.
I will probably pull off the 1.9 head and get a 1.6 on it.
The cold start lever works fine  ;)
The timing job sounds too easy to be true, so we will get one of the older mechanics to fiddle with that while showing us. He has apparently done it a lot of times.
Thanks for all the help and input! I will start the governor mod tonight and see where that gets me, i do have an EGT gauge installed pre turbo and seeing very reasonable temperatures.

 

S-PAutomotive.com