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Author Topic: Play in the Intermediate Shaft  (Read 16332 times)

Reply #15June 04, 2017, 03:10:46 pm

absenth

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2017, 03:10:46 pm »
Is there any good reason to check the vacuum pump and oil pump before pulling the engine?

Seems like it would be much easier to do once its on an engine stand.

Reply #16June 04, 2017, 03:36:49 pm

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2017, 03:36:49 pm »
It's trivial to do with the engine installed. There's a single bolt clamping the vacuum pump in place. Undo that, remove the fork and yank it straight out. There's no advantage to doing it in or out, it's the same either way.

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Reply #17June 04, 2017, 07:14:30 pm

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2017, 07:14:30 pm »
The advantage to doing it with the engine in is that you might cure the actual issue with the engine prior to removal.  There is no advantage to doing it when the engine has been removed. 

Reply #18June 05, 2017, 12:02:07 am

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2017, 12:02:07 am »
I am for simple.  Doing it with engine installed may save hours pulling the engine.  Access on this one is not a problem.

Reply #19June 05, 2017, 07:11:48 am

absenth

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2017, 07:11:48 am »
If either the vacuum pump or oil pump were the only problem I wouldn't consider pulling the engine. But my IS needs to be replaced.

I've read other threads that suggest the option of lowering the engine on the passenger side just enough to slide the IS out to replace it.

That option seems about as challenging as pulling the engine.

Is there another way to replace or repair the IS shaft?

I found this http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/volkswagen,1983,rabbit,1.6l+l4+diesel,1430470,engine,intermediate+shaft+repair+sleeve,10513

I'm not sure that is applicable to my IS but would something like that last?


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« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 10:00:08 am by absenth »

Reply #20June 05, 2017, 07:06:46 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2017, 07:06:46 pm »
I haven't tried to pull an intermediate shaft out of a rabbit/golf/jetta.  I've pulled them out of a couple different vanagons with the engine in place. 

Lowering one side of the engine is definitely a lot easier than pulling it, but obviously do whatever you prefer.  Less than 5 minutes removing a single bolt would have the vac pump in your hand.  Another 1 minute would tell you if the oil pump turns properly.  It would take about as much time as it took me to read the last couple replies and write this one.

Reply #21June 05, 2017, 11:35:52 pm

ORCoaster

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2017, 11:35:52 pm »
Since there is the issue of replacing the IS I think pulling the engine is just going too far.  Maybe because for me to be able to do that requires me to drive across town, borrow a buddies lift and then if I have to leave and the engine is out I am walking a long way home. 

To lower the transmission side enough to get the shaft out of the front of the engine seems possible to me.  I would think that blocking up the bell housing on a floor jack and removing the engine mounts on the drivers and the front of the engine and slowly letting the jack down would tell a guy if you can get the shaft out or not.  They are as long as the block so to clear the fender you have to have a pretty steep angle on the engine I would think. 

I was thinking I had this same problem yesterday with a worn IS but in sourcing out the noise I found the timing belt was slapping the plastic shroud just under the tensioner.  A quick change to that problem and I had a nice quiet engine at idle again. 

Let us know how you get this done.  Full engine pulled or tweaking it, and sneaking it out without pulling.

Reply #22June 06, 2017, 07:06:30 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2017, 07:06:30 pm »
Is there another way to replace or repair the IS shaft?

I found this http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/volkswagen,1983,rabbit,1.6l+l4+diesel,1430470,engine,intermediate+shaft+repair+sleeve,10513

I'm not sure that is applicable to my IS but would something like that last?


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I meant to reply to this before.  The link is to a redi-sleeve that repairs the seal surface.  That won't do anything to help with the busted thrust surface.  There is not any repair for the broken one currently in your engine.  Replacing the intermediate shaft is necessary. 

Reply #23June 07, 2017, 01:44:19 am

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2017, 01:44:19 am »
Just a guess but I kind of agree with you that trying to tilt the engine might be a bit iffy. I just went out and looked at mine and I notice the IM shaft sits down pretty low on the engine and you might have to get it to a pretty significant angle to get the shaft out. In addition to removing 3 of the motor mounts I see all kinds of stuff that you may or may not have to remove as well..... shift linkage, drive shafts, radiator hoses, exhaust. Never have tried it but it could be that by the time you get it to where it will tilt far enough you may be 90% toward having the engine out anyway.
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Reply #24June 07, 2017, 03:32:39 pm

absenth

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2017, 03:32:39 pm »
I haven't tried to pull an intermediate shaft out of a rabbit/golf/jetta.  I've pulled them out of a couple different vanagons with the engine in place. 

Lowering one side of the engine is definitely a lot easier than pulling it, but obviously do whatever you prefer.  Less than 5 minutes removing a single bolt would have the vac pump in your hand.  Another 1 minute would tell you if the oil pump turns properly.  It would take about as much time as it took me to read the last couple replies and write this one.

I removed the vacuum pump (VP). The bolt wasn't real tight at all. The VP turned easily and made pressure on the return leading back to the engine. Gears looked good. No marks or missing pieces. I looked down into the block to see the gear end of the IS and the top of the shaft belonging to the oil pump. I turned the IS and inspected the IS gears. Looked good. I used a 10mm crescent to turn the oil pump shaft. It turned in both directions very easliy.

I did notice before I removed the IS pulley that when I turned it counter clockwise it would seem to pull toward the block and tighten. That is why I assumed the IS pulley was chipped because it was being pulled toward the block. Anyway I put the pulley back on so I could turn the IS and it had the same kind issue with pulling the pulley toward the block.

With the VP removed the IS shaft turned easily and didn't seem to pull the pulley toward the block.

« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 04:15:39 pm by absenth »

Reply #25June 07, 2017, 03:34:54 pm

absenth

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2017, 03:34:54 pm »
Thanks everyone for your time and replies.

I plan on pulling the engine in the next few weeks.

I'll post what I find if anything.

Reply #26June 07, 2017, 04:53:30 pm

absenth

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2017, 04:53:30 pm »
Just a guess but I kind of agree with you that trying to tilt the engine might be a bit iffy. I just went out and looked at mine and I notice the IM shaft sits down pretty low on the engine and you might have to get it to a pretty significant angle to get the shaft out. In addition to removing 3 of the motor mounts I see all kinds of stuff that you may or may not have to remove as well..... shift linkage, drive shafts, radiator hoses, exhaust. Never have tried it but it could be that by the time you get it to where it will tilt far enough you may be 90% toward having the engine out anyway.

Agreed.


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Reply #27June 13, 2017, 04:18:58 pm

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2017, 04:18:58 pm »
Can you see where the timing belt was wearing on the injection pump sprocket?
Does the injection pump have bad mainshaft bushings,.. lots of play in the shaft?

I still believe the I-shaft damage is from a belt that is riding toward the cover. It has been on all the ones I've found with a busted thrust washer. Others disagree but I'm still gathering data to support my hypothesis.
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Reply #28June 26, 2017, 11:06:38 pm

absenth

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2017, 11:06:38 pm »
Can you see where the timing belt was wearing on the injection pump sprocket?
Does the injection pump have bad mainshaft bushings,.. lots of play in the shaft?

I still believe the I-shaft damage is from a belt that is riding toward the cover. It has been on all the ones I've found with a busted thrust washer. Others disagree but I'm still gathering data to support my hypothesis.

No.
No play in the shaft.
No experience with them yet, but what I've read here and elsewhere references the timing belt being too tight.

I got my lift and engine stand. Need to source a few more items and I'll get this thing pulled soon.

Reply #29June 27, 2017, 12:05:47 am

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2017, 12:05:47 am »
so you dont have to pull motor just for im shaft replacement. what i did, mind you this was on a MK2, where the front motor mount is removable, ive long seen the last of mk1's a good while ago, so no real idea on mk1 front motor mount. on a mk2, 1 i removed oil pan, for a jack point. 2 loosen all 3 motor mounts, use oil pan lip, a couple of blocks of wood and a jack, jack up motor, get up some and remove front motor mount bolts/nut(s). jack up some more, make sure you dont put front motor mount flange in to radiator, it will come close. get front motor mount out. now #1 motor will come down so im shaft clears fender. but first you need to check that nothing will hang-up motor on the way down, such as electrical wires, fuel hoses, rad hoses, etc, could make a job really harder. so motor will come down quite a ways for shaft to clear fender. front mount flange will come close to bottoming out. im shaft should clear fender, have a new shaft prepped, and otherwise it can slide back in, except youll want to take the best visual of bearings you can. outer bearing is perhaps serviceable, you d need the tools to pull & press a new one in. inner bearing can be real difficult, probably need a shop for that one, if also the outer one. in reverse jack up motor so you can put mount back in and put that part back together, re-tighten mounts and such. as for your engine hoist is can take place of a jack if you use it right and can perhaps with or with out a jack get motor up & down, at the least it will be like a jack stand, or a support so motor cannt go free and drop, it will have the support like a stand. 

 

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