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Author Topic: Play in the Intermediate Shaft  (Read 4324 times)

May 26, 2017, 10:40:10 am

absenth

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Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« on: May 26, 2017, 10:40:10 am »
I have a 1.6L Diesel.

I removed my IS Pulley to gain access to bolts on my water pump.

The IS shaft has a bit of play when pushed in/out, maybe 1/4". Is this normal?

Thanks.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 10:43:04 am by absenth »



Reply #1May 26, 2017, 02:34:26 pm

RabbitJockey

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2017, 02:34:26 pm »
no
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Reply #2May 26, 2017, 03:07:37 pm

absenth

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2017, 03:07:37 pm »
Didn't think so.

I'm guessing it caused this:

 .

Any idea on what is most likely causing the movement? Bearings need replaced? Any thing else I can check prior to pulling the engine?


Reply #3May 26, 2017, 07:25:36 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2017, 07:25:36 pm »
Probably the extra thrust movement wasn't the cause of the broken piece from the pulley, but it is definitely not right.  I'd say most likely is the thrust ring on the intermediate shaft has broken off.  Really easy to check.  Remove the pulley and remove the two bolts that hold on the seal carrier. 
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Reply #4May 28, 2017, 10:39:42 pm

absenth

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2017, 10:39:42 pm »
 
Probably the extra thrust movement wasn't the cause of the broken piece from the pulley, but it is definitely not right.  I'd say most likely is the thrust ring on the intermediate shaft has broken off.  Really easy to check.  Remove the pulley and remove the two bolts that hold on the seal carrier. 

Thank you. Is this the thrust ring?


Reply #5May 29, 2017, 05:41:55 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2017, 05:41:55 pm »
Yes, indeed.  You need a replacement intermediate shaft.  You might also want to check that your oil pump and vac pump both rotate properly and are not damaged.  Most often the thrust ring breaks because something prevents one or the other from rotating properly and the shaft gear works like a screw putting excessive force on the thrust ring. 
Use, abuse or ignorance of any information is at your own risk, confirmation or refutation is your own responsibility, no further 'proof' will be given, take it or leave it, YMMV,terms subject to change without notice, avoid contact with eyes or skin, contents known to cause cancer in California

Reply #6May 29, 2017, 10:43:59 pm

absenth

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2017, 10:43:59 pm »
Understood. Thank you for your time.


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Reply #7May 31, 2017, 11:48:50 pm

fatmobile

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2017, 11:48:50 pm »
Hey, was the belt riding off the end of the I-shaft pully?
Off center?
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Reply #8June 01, 2017, 08:50:09 am

absenth

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2017, 08:50:09 am »
Hey, was the belt riding off the end of the I-shaft pully?
Off center?

I can't say. I haven't had the engine running.

The belt looks to be newer with no visable rubbing marks or cuts. But it may have been installed but never actually ran.

I was going through the steps to do the timing.

While turning the engine over by hand I became a little suspicious of what else may be wrong. Maybe I'm being unnecessarily pessimistic. But you can read my concerns here: http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/108257-Binding-while-turning-diesel-engine-over-by-hand.

I think pulling the engine and removing the head to inspect while I plan to replace the IS would be the sensible thing to do. All advice is welcome and would be appreciated.

Reply #9June 01, 2017, 10:55:51 am

libbydiesel

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2017, 10:55:51 am »
I only skimmed that thread.  It sounds like the difficulty in turning and the breaking of the thrust ring on the int shaft could be from the same issue.  My recommendation is the same as before.  Pull the vac pump and make sure it spins easily.  Put a socket on the oil pump shaft (careful not to drop it in the sump) and spin the oil pump to make sure it spins easily. 
Use, abuse or ignorance of any information is at your own risk, confirmation or refutation is your own responsibility, no further 'proof' will be given, take it or leave it, YMMV,terms subject to change without notice, avoid contact with eyes or skin, contents known to cause cancer in California

Reply #10June 01, 2017, 12:17:52 pm

absenth

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2017, 12:17:52 pm »
I only skimmed that thread.  It sounds like the difficulty in turning and the breaking of the thrust ring on the int shaft could be from the same issue.  My recommendation is the same as before.  Pull the vac pump and make sure it spins easily.  Put a socket on the oil pump shaft (careful not to drop it in the sump) and spin the oil pump to make sure it spins easily.

Ok. Will do. Thanks.


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Reply #11June 01, 2017, 04:16:48 pm

ORCoaster

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2017, 04:16:48 pm »
Libby is suggesting pulling the two parts that are driven by the IS itself.  The gear on the back of the IS indirectly spins the oil pump which is two gears that squeeze it up and out to the rest of the engine.  The Vac pump IS the ACTUAL driver of both parts and may also be a gear driven device if you have the upgraded on.  But it's shaft fits on top of the oil pump and if either is jammed up for some reason the IS will not turn freely.

Taking them out one at a time and testing is done easily  If you remove the timing belt spinning the oil pump should show up as a turning IS shaft so be aware of that.  The vacuum pump can be turned by hand once it is out of the engine. 

Good luck on this.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 11:10:01 pm by ORCoaster »
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Reply #12June 02, 2017, 12:10:30 pm

absenth

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2017, 12:10:30 pm »
Libby is suggesting pulling the two parts that are driven by the IS itself.  The gear on the back spins the oil pump which is two gears that squeeze it up and out to the rest of the engine.  The Vac pump may also be a gear driven device if you have the upgraded on.  But it's shaft fits on top of the oil pump and if either is jammed up for some reason the IS will not turn freely.

Taking them out one at a time and testing is done easily  If you remove the timing belt spinning the oil pump should show up as a turning IS shaft so be aware of that.  The vacuum pump can be turned by hand once it is out of the engine. 

Good luck on this.

Thanks for the details. Much appreciated.



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Reply #13June 02, 2017, 01:04:58 pm

vanbcguy

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2017, 01:04:58 pm »
If we want to be picky the intermediate shaft drives the vacuum pump. The oil pump has a slotted shaft that fits in to the bottom of the vacuum pump.

Libby's advice holds however - if either pump is not turning freely it can cause the problems you're experiencing.

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Reply #14June 02, 2017, 11:11:30 pm

ORCoaster

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Re: Play in the Intermediate Shaft
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2017, 11:11:30 pm »
There you go, I modified it a bit to make is read as it works.  IS drives Vac pump and that drives the Oil Pump.  Thanks for keeping us from spreading so so information.  We don't want to be picky, we want to be clear and correct.

Correct?

« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 12:00:51 am by ORCoaster »
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