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Tow start time?
by
RustyCaddy
on 15 Jan, 2017 07:07
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Well,
Had been using a block heater because starting was getting harder and lots of white smoke. Finally drove it into the garage and changed out the plugs, 3 had died by then. Time for needed maintenance since i had a block of time. Replaced the plugs, put in new rebuilt set of TD injectors for the NA since i had them on hand, timed NA pump up accordingly (1.05mm), checked compression (block heater warmed ranged from 375-400psi), and reset valve lift. Have clear small return lines and clear filters on feed and big return lines. New battery.
Turned it over till fuel ran out the hard line unions with the injectors then tightened them up. Cannot get it to catch, cranks away, no smoke, upper banjo clear, pump full, diesel moving in and out. No leaks at the fuel pump. Power to solenoid (but obviously the distributive head is passing fuel). By the best of my understanding it should at least try to run.
Have cranked for 10-15 minutes probably over a couple days. i am stumped, embarrassed, almost out of time, etc.
Hate to get here but at this point am thinking to try a tow start. Will probably pay AAA for a tow to do this since the clutch on the wifes Metro is a little worn and i need the Metro to get to work if this fails.
Any pointers? Drop it into 2nd at maybe 10-15mph. Don't think the bumper will handle a push start without getting damaged.
Advice, ridicule, etc. is greatly appreciated.
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#1
by
TylerDurden
on 15 Jan, 2017 07:50
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I wouldn't tow yet.
I'd measure glow plug current. Should be about 12A each or 48A total.
I'd use the old injectors since they are verified ok (swap in new after engine starts reliably).
I'd flip the hardlines and attach the injectors to verify they are spritzing.
I'd verify that #1 delivery valve is pushing out fuel approaching #1 cylinder TDC.
With timing and compression values stated and the above verified, should light off even if temps are in single digits F.
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#2
by
ORCoaster
on 15 Jan, 2017 13:35
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It sounds to me that your injectors are not doing the job. Were they dry when you installed them? Maybe the tips are stuck and not moving when fuel gets injected into them. The only other thing that comes to mind here is verification of the timing. Is it 180 degrees out of alignment?
Edit: Verify fuse on firewall or at least the voltage to those GP's. As suggested prior.
Other than those two items I can't see anything that would lead me to doing anything other than checking the operation of the injectors as Tyler mentioned and the timing.
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#3
by
RustyCaddy
on 15 Jan, 2017 14:18
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Thanks for the help! The injectors were dry when installed and didn't have a chance to test them.
Will reinstall the old injectors, flip the lines, recheck the timing, make sure the sprocket lines up correctly, and voltage to the glowplugs today. i might have to make a pop tester since the fuel injection shop closed up locally.
With everything seemingly okay it must be something stupid i have done. Always so disconcerting when it drives into the garage under its own power and refuses to leave!
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#4
by
RustyCaddy
on 15 Jan, 2017 14:30
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#5
by
ORCoaster
on 15 Jan, 2017 20:26
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Had to peek at the link. Must be something off with the conversion rate to US dollars? And the last line of your comment had me laughing as well. Why do cars do that to us?
Hope you find the boo boo, has to be something so simple. Right?
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#6
by
ccaissie
on 22 Jan, 2017 18:12
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Same problem with a FORD 861 tractor. Injectors were dry after engine rebuild, full of air, couldn't get line pressure high enough while cranking...needed to spin faster...towed it. Started right up, runs fine now.
C
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#7
by
RustyCaddy
on 23 Jan, 2017 00:42
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Well,
Only got back to this yesterday as have been dealing with a computer meltdown with the job most of the week (don't click on the attachment)
Tested the electric and all was good. Tried pop testing the injectors that had been removed and they were really bad, around 1200-1300 psi; the portapower pop tester experiment doesn't hold pressure long enough to set the injectors so ordered a proper one off ebay and am waiting.
And the starter is now acting up so i guess a tow is the safest bet LOL.
Will probably reset everything and may be replace the pump with a known working pump.
Thanks everyone for the help and words of encouragement!
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#8
by
ORCoaster
on 23 Jan, 2017 01:35
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dealing with a computer meltdown with the job most of the week (don't click on the attachment) You didn't let your curious nature get the better of you and the computer did you?
Curiosity Kills more than cats you know. And those scams are getting so sneaky these days. Using your contacts list and message titles to send you something you think is from a friend on a familiar topic. Them Bam incoming virus of some sort.
Hope you got it sorted out at work, and this non start issue will be next.
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#9
by
RustyCaddy
on 18 Feb, 2017 21:58
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Thought i should follow this up.
Sometimes you get to the point you question everything so it is time for brute force of the detail oriented kind. When all was said and done:
Recharged the new battery, added a relay to the starter (Libbys very good idea), replaced the starter with a gear reduction starter from a MK4 automatic, replaced the glow plugs, bought a functional pop tester, replaced the injectors nozzles (went with Monark nozzels for a Merc), balanced the injectors, replaced the injection pump with a known working pump, timed pump to the nozzle break pressure and pump age (100mm), reset the valves and retorxed the head studs (why not).
Started up frighteningly easily and seems to be running well. Will see how it goes. The upgraded starter turns the engine very quickly. Will never really know what was wrong but likely it was several things needing attention. Will miss the franken pump, it advanced extremely quickly, smoked really bad and got both really good mpg/mph.
Thanks!! for the advice and help from everyone including the those answers to other postings and the contributors now departed from the forum.
Now on the welding patches for the rusted out spots located during the process
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#10
by
theman53
on 19 Feb, 2017 10:05
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after a while or if you have the cash you should take the merc nozzles and throw them out. The stock vw will make better power and fuel efficiency with less smoke. Merc nozzles were designed to spray against a ball that is not in the vw precup.
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#11
by
RustyCaddy
on 19 Feb, 2017 13:51
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That's a good point. The Monark nozzles replaced the previous set of Elsbett nozzles and were matched to the Elsbetts; guess there is some crossover in Elsbett nozzles between VW and Merc. i have seen old Monark nozzles for 1.5l VW's, DSNO 193 but never for 1.6l but have also read 193 cross walk over to 293's?
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#12
by
theman53
on 19 Feb, 2017 20:30
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The Merc and VW nozzles should never cross. VW has a "coaches whistle" style prechamber and Mercedes uses a ball that the injector squirts against to atomize. The streams are completely different, so no cross reference should yield them compatible. Most of the vw idi stuff should work on all the other idi stuff as they have the same shape prechamber. It will run with the Merc nozzles but all who have tried it explained that it didn't burn the fuel well.
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#13
by
RustyCaddy
on 26 Feb, 2017 21:14
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Found some proper Monark nozzles on ebay for 1.5l VW engines so ordered them. Looking forward to see how they work out and they were only about $15.00 each (assuming they ever arrive, seller is in Latvia).
