1.6 TD, no fuel in injection rails

[kljaja]

I was driving yesterday with near empty tank, in my opinion there was fuel for about 10-20km, enough to get to first station. I accelerated in 2nd gear, pressed clutch for 3rd and car shut off by itself.
Friend came with 20L of fresh diesel we poured in. We cranked the engine for good half an hour trying to get squirting at loose injector rails to bleed the system but without success. We put the fuel supply hose from filter in a jar with fresh diesel, with start spray in aurbox, engine ran for 20 seconds straight but as soon as we quit the spray it stopped, and it drained the whole jar of diesel (0.5l).
Cutoff valve gets electricity, we changed cutoff valve without success. Ive put both fuel return hose and supply hose in a cannister of fresh diesel but still nothing.

Everyone i asked locally said that it must spray diesel on loose rails, or that cutoff valve is dead. Both valves i tried were operational.

[theman53]

Fill the pump with diesel, attach the lines, be patient.

[ORCoaster]

Kljaja,  sounds to me that you ran just about every drop of diesel out of the Injection Pump.  So filling the tank only reset your supply part of the way.  You needed to have fuel in the IP in order to draw it into the system and send it back out to the tank.  Using some for running the engine along the way.  By having so much air in the IP you could crank for an hour and never get it to start.  You would have had to pour some in through the Out bolt on the top of the pump.  Then loosen the injector nuts on top the injectors to get the air out of the lines. 

Once you have it showing there you can tighten the nuts and cycle the glow plugs and crank it.  Then it should at least start.  As it first fires up you should have your foot 1/3 to 1/2 way down on the accelerator.  This serves two purposes.  One to wind the engine up and get the alternator charging but also to get as much air out of the injection pump as you can.  Even revving the engine a bit on startup can help.  Or just keep your foot down a bit on the accelerator for a higher than normal idle for a minute or so.

It now seems that you have some fuel in the pump from the description you provided.  At this point do as theman53 says, crack the injector nuts and crank till you see fuel and then button them down and try a normal start.  Isn't that sound just the best when it comes back from the dead?

[kljaja]

Sorry i've forgot to mention. I took clear hose, connected to fuel out banjo, sucked that mofo like crazy until fuel started to come out of the banjo, with lots of air and bubbles. After few minutes of vacuming there was no more of even tiniest bubles, just clear diesel. Then i startet that cranking procedure, puting supply line in diesel that it sucked dry with no help and so on..

[TylerDurden]

Ja, sounds like being low on fuel prior is irrelevant.

I'd pull off the hardlines and look for fuel spitting from the IP delivery valves during cranking. If no fuel, I'd remove the plunger of the cutoff solenoid and check for a piece of the rubber nubbin blocking the cutoff port. I'd crank the engine for a second or two and see if fuel blasts/pours out the open solenoid hole. Wear goggles.

If no fuel out the solenoid hole, something is blocking the port inside the IP.
If fuel shoots out, I'd replace the solenoid with no plunger/spring and crank again looking for fuel from delivery valves.
If no fuel from delivery valves, the gov, control collar or injection plunger is borked inside the IP.
If fuel from delivery valves, replace hardlines and purge air from hardlines, try starting again.
(Starting the engine with no cutoff plunger requires stalling engine to stop.)

[kljaja]

Thanks fo the reply!

Mech removed the timing plunger, checked the " X " or " + " marking while i was cranking and saw that it wasnt moving...the pump is dead, towed the car to his workshop...

[air-cooled or diesel]

an old pump (or any pump) can be susceptible to failure if run dry, for one the main seal(&/or other seals) may not be sealing, and may not draw prime. suggestion, take fuel filter, Prime it, like ive said for some time
 after cranking check for inlet line to hand prime some more, if needed.

[TylerDurden]

Pump cannot run dry under own power, its inlet to the injector lines is at the top of the IP. 

The engine will stall before the parts inside go dry, they are still sumberged in fuel.


This IP is dead. If the injection plunger is not moving, but the lift section moves fuel, something is broken inside.

The 'X'  visible in the timing port is actually the end of the injection plunger.

[air-cooled or diesel]

Pump cannot run dry under own power, its inlet to the injector lines is at the top of the IP.

The engine will stall before the parts inside go dry, they are still sumberged in fuel.

im not in complete agreement. your position is supposed to be a norm.


if the seals arenot working correctly, (main seal esp.) prime may be more difficult, and impossible by cranking starter after putting fuel in a empty tank. all lines & connections up to pump must be sealed.

[kljaja]

Yes, the "X" wasnt moving while cranking.
Car is towed at pump mechanics workshop, itll be open tommorrow and ill know more about whats happened...I'll write it here for future reference.

[ORCoaster]

Not a good report.  I have only cracked a plunger once in all the years I have owned my car.  A sinking feeling for sure.  To replace you need both mated parts, the plunger and the head it goes in.  They are machined so closely that just throwing in a new pump shaft doesn't always work.  This is why many of us keep spare IP around.  I think I have at least three as my son returned those he had for his Dasher. 

Hope you get it back on the road soon. 

[kljaja]

Yeah, its been out of game for 2 months, police took my nr plates, i had to legalise turbo engine and pass yearly MOT, 3 days after i registered it and insured the pump died, it drained all my money.. 

[kljaja]

So guys, here are the results...

[TylerDurden]

Oh yeah.

Is the plunger seized in the collar? If so, are the two big springs and rods (not in pic) intact?

[ORCoaster]

I have a pump shaft that looks just like that!   It doesn't work either.  Not a good sight to see either.