1.6TD - wheres my injection pump leaking from? (video)

[ORCoaster]

Nope, can't hurt an IP running it out of time.  Like Tyler says engine runs with it out of time by 180 degrees. 

So Soak the IP in Diesel purge.  Fill up a bottle and put the two hoses from the IP in there.  Let it get good and full in the IP and let it set for a day or two.  Then fire it up.  You will have a diesel/purge mix in the bottle at that time. 

Good suggestion about running it a distance away from the engine.  Basically simulating the distance to the tank.  I know that takes hose but it would show you if your pump can draw into itself or not. 

If you don't have an issue with getting fuel up into the pump from a distance then the IP is doing what it needs to do. 

So where to look for a problem?  The FILTER!  Has that been changed?  Then since you have already sent air down the line from the inlet of the IP to the filter the next place to look is the line from the filter to the tank.  Something is in there or floating over the inlet and causing you trouble.  It might be in the fittings on the top of the filter flange too.  So don't forget those. 

[oblique]

Alright I will be soaking it in DP for a while but so far everything points to the IP.

I've replaced the fuel filter with new (primed it) and disconnected and manually blew out both hoses (diesel doesnt taste all the greatest) stemming from the fuel filter housing and checked the housing itself.

Drawing fuel from the main supply line behind the engine was easy enough with the mityvac but sometimes drawing fuel from the return line on the IP takes a LOT more vacuum.

[ORCoaster]

Drawing fuel into the IP shouldn't take a lot of vacuum.  Unless there is a filter, line or obstruction in the IP itself.  If all is clear in filter and lines to the IP could it be possible that something went down the IP when you replaced the O rings on the pressure regulator?  I am totally reaching for the basket of straws here.  The small passage that allows fuel to get around in that part of the pump might be holding something so you are not generating the actual pressure you should and thus the advance isn't working as it should.  To clean that might take the Mighty Vac on the pressure inlet. 

When ever I drew fuel into the IP through the OUT bolt opening I did it with a large plastic syringe, used for mixing 2 stroke oil.  Only holds about six ounces so not really that much capacity.  It filled easily just pulling up the plunger.

[srgtlord]

My vote is the little screen in the OUT bolt of the injection pump is plugged up

[oblique]

This morning I did the following:

(As I wait for Diesel Purge to arrive)

Checked orifice on OUT bolt: clear.

Hooked up a bottle to IP and set it in the void in front of the air filter so its the same height as the IP with a tall arcing hose to see if it would draw fuel.

It did, but just barely - not near fast enough to feed the IP.

To check that I did not have leaks, I connected the return line from the IP to my MityVac (instead of back to the bottle) and drew fuel through the pump and out of the bottle with ease.

While I had the car running on whatever fuel I had managed to prime the IP with, there was very little visible movement on the return side. The hoses were clear and had pockets of diesel in there so I could readily see what was going on. Very little.

[ORCoaster]

Based on this description I would purge it by filling the IP with the Mighty Vac from the Out Bolt.  Then let the purge set a day after you run it just a bit on it, 1 minuts should be enough.  Set up the bottle as you previously did.  So the return line is going there.  Have Diesel in it to replace Purge if it does start cycling it around.  That is what should be happening.  Basically the IP is going to pump around the fluid from the bottle through itself and then spit it out in the bottle.  The running engine barely uses fuel at Idle.  Say a prayer and hit the key.

If there was a problem with the vanes or a vane being stuck and the purge manages to free it up you should see equal amounts of fluid going in as you see going out.  Unless there is something sticking in the inlet passages along the way.  With a single short hose on the inlet side that is open to the inlet banjo there isn't much between the Vane part of the pump and that hose. 

But the way you describe the fuel going in when you use the Might Vac sounds normal and nothing is plugging that process.  Now it might be that the vacuum from the IP is not as strong as the Mighty Vac and that is why it isn't getting replacement fuel but the Might Vac does.  That is why I thought you had a vane sticking. So, if after you purge it and it still shows this difference between IP versus Might Vac I think I would be inclined to fill the pump as full as you can get it.  Then flip the Mighty Vac over the to the inlet side and see if you pull something out from the inlet side of the passages. 

If the purge doesn't do the trick I hate to say that at that point I would be thrashing the snot out of the IP.  No Just Kidding!!!!   I would just pull the pump and start tearing it down but I am capable of doing that and you may not.  I have lost count on the number of pumps I have opened and closed with good results afterwards. 

I think the addition of a lift pump would help here if the IP is weak at drawing fuel.  For what ever reason.  Most of those pumps are easy to install, cost around 20-25 bucks and would need a switch or add it to the fuel solenoid wire.   Just be sure to fuse between the two for safety sake.

Keep updating,  There is always a reason thus always a solution to these problems  that hide so well from us.

[oblique]

Still waiting for Diesel Purge.

Has anyone bought rebuilt pumps from Prothe (Hans)?

My pump is listed quite cheaply (price includes $150 core): http://www.hansautoparts.com/product-detail.aspx?86-92TurboPump.htm

Also of interest is the mention of the feed pump. Is this what creates vacuum to draw fuel from the tank? http://www.hansautoparts.com/product-detail.aspx?16LFeedPump.htm

[ORCoaster]

What Prothe is calling a feed pump is what we have been calling the vane pump.  It is the front end part of the IP and yes it is what creates the vacuum like pull that brings fuel to the IP.  We are hoping that yours will come to life given a good soaking with the DP.  I can buy it off the shelf from several places around town but then we have a lot of diesel trucks around as well.  I am really hoping that the vanes are not fully working on your pump and once freed up then you will able to rev up the engine and keep them engaged against the side of the pump creating a vacuum like draw on the fuel.

[oblique]

Finally got around to the Diesel Purge.

Once again, pump would NOT draw ANY fuel from a fully primed tube of fluid running straight from the bottle of DP. I manually drew DP from the return easily, car idled and died after a minute or two. NO movement of fluid from the return whatsoever.  I revved it as much as I could, but it was not very willing and refused to redline.

Lots of white smoke from exhaust along with a puddle of black gooey stuff near tailpipe.

If the DP works I will be thrilled but right now if anyone has a clean mk2 turbo pump I am interested.

How in the world did this car run for like 2 miles just fine before suddenly sputtering out after I first re-sealed it? Did I contaminate the fuel supply and it took 2 miles for that debris to travel to the fuel feeder and get it stuck? I mean, like, WTF is going on.

[ORCoaster]

I have only had a similar experience with one pump.  I took it mostly apart to redo some seals and inspect for wear.  I did not go below the cam and such and inspect the vanes.  When I put it back together I couldn't get it to draw in fuel for the life of me.  So I tore it all the way down only to find that the vanes were stuck with a layer of yellow looking varnish like stuff.  I could use my fingernail and push them out of their slots but they were sticky to the touch. 

My theory was that once the pump lost the diesel it also lost the ability to lube those vanes.  They dried out and stuck to the main part that drives them round and round.  Once they were cleaned I slid them in place with some Vaseline and it fired right up and has been running since. 

I can only think something like that is going on with your pump. 

[oblique]

Pump is now with Giles.

If anyone has suggestions on how to get a woodruff key out of the crankcase Im happy to take them.

[oblique]

from Giles:

[TylerDurden]

Ouch.

[ORCoaster]

Those little pieces of metal that make the vanes don't really slide very well being jammed in like those are.  Lots of wear going on in there.  Most I have seen in any pump I ever opened.  Did this run dry?   For an extended amount of time or just lots of cranking trying to get fuel up into it.  They need a prime of fuel to pull fuel, but you know that. 

[oblique]

Giles thinks its from excessive belt tension. Would explain why it ran fine for about 2 miles after I first did the seals before cutting out suddenly?

If not, and the vanes were varnished in place after the pump sat dry for a few days, then all the cranking and bad idling without adequate fuel could be the cause.