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Author Topic: Hubs, pulleys, and pumps, OH MY!  (Read 13139 times)

Reply #30August 24, 2016, 12:55:31 am

libbydiesel

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Re: Hubs, pulleys, and pumps, OH MY!
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2016, 12:55:31 am »
ORCoaster, glad you liked the drawings.  Sometimes a picture makes it easier to explain. 

Zeitgeist, I believe the stock LR hub is installed so that when pinned, the keyway points at the VW #4 rather than #1.  I need to pay attention and double-check the next time I pull the hub off an LR pump. 

Reply #31August 25, 2016, 05:56:39 pm

Zeitgeist

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Re: Hubs, pulleys, and pumps, OH MY!
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2016, 05:56:39 pm »
Ok, so I got the hub set on the pump.  I then attempted to install the timing belt, and found that I cannot rotate the engine.  I drove the car with the donor engine, and removed the old belt after setting it to TDC, and have not rotated the engine since that time.  The #1 cam lobes are pointing up, and the crank pulley is in the proper position for TDC and the Metalnerd lock, as is the Kennedy adapter TDC window.  I removed the glowplugs, and still it will move a few degrees, and then the resistance becomes too much and my nerve gives out.  I'm at a loss as to why it's not rotating.  I may remove the cam and see if that frees up the crank to turn, but no matter what, it does appear that I need to pull the head.  What am I missing here?
'87 300TD (OM606)
'90 300D (OM602)
'89 Vanagon Bluestar (ALH)
'01 EV Weekender (AXK)
'04 Passat Variant (BHW)

Reply #32August 25, 2016, 07:20:37 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Hubs, pulleys, and pumps, OH MY!
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2016, 07:20:37 pm »
Is the pump shaft still locked?  Any other locks in place (e.g. pump hub lock, camlock, etc...)?

Is the engine in the vehicle with trans attached?  Is the trans in gear?
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 07:22:42 pm by libbydiesel »

Reply #33August 25, 2016, 07:29:06 pm

Zeitgeist

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Re: Hubs, pulleys, and pumps, OH MY!
« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2016, 07:29:06 pm »
Is the pump shaft still locked?  Any other locks in place (e.g. pump hub lock, camlock, etc...)?

None that I've installed.  I'm wondering if the oil pump has something wedged in the sprocket, or there was a foreign object that got down the intake/exhaust ports.  I was able to freely rotate the crank back and forth prior to installing the belt.  The upside of pulling the head, is that it would allow me to freshen up the valve stem seals and hand lap the valves, at the very least.  Could also be a can of worms.  The engine ran excellent despite having a nearly completely occluded intake manifold.   

The engine is still hanging from my shop crane.  I'd have it on the engine stand, but that doesn't allow the adapter plate and flywheel. 
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 07:42:58 pm by Zeitgeist »
'87 300TD (OM606)
'90 300D (OM602)
'89 Vanagon Bluestar (ALH)
'01 EV Weekender (AXK)
'04 Passat Variant (BHW)

Reply #34August 26, 2016, 02:51:07 am

libbydiesel

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Re: Hubs, pulleys, and pumps, OH MY!
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2016, 02:51:07 am »
Just triple-checking...  when you installed the hub, I imagine you clamped the pump shaft using the side bolt.  You released the shaft and installed the stock bolt, correct?

Reply #35August 26, 2016, 02:17:54 pm

Zeitgeist

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Re: Hubs, pulleys, and pumps, OH MY!
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2016, 02:17:54 pm »
Yep, pump turns fine.  I pulled the cam, and the bottom end turns fine as well.  All the lifters popped up evenly, so it's a real mystery.  I'll just go ahead and pop the head off while I'm at stripped this far.  Ambiguity and uncertainty are the biggest drag on this project, by far.  I know just enough about the old school VAG diesels to get into trouble, but not enough about these newer versions to confidently move forward.  All told though, I really really like the ALH design
'87 300TD (OM606)
'90 300D (OM602)
'89 Vanagon Bluestar (ALH)
'01 EV Weekender (AXK)
'04 Passat Variant (BHW)

Reply #36August 26, 2016, 03:02:08 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Hubs, pulleys, and pumps, OH MY!
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2016, 03:02:08 pm »
Before popping the head off, you might consider placing crank midway  for all cyls (90° before or after TDC) and see if cam will turn.

Reply #37August 27, 2016, 02:42:21 pm

Zeitgeist

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Re: Hubs, pulleys, and pumps, OH MY!
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2016, 02:42:21 pm »
Ok, mystery solved.  Feel free to laugh at the big ol' dummy.  It turns out that I used Allen head bolts to secure the pump to the bracket, and they would interfere with the pulley, but only when the hub bolts were torqued down.  Of course, every time I pulled the belt, I slackened the hub bolts, so the problem would disappear.  Grrrrr...silly mistakes; I've made a few.

On the plus side, I did go ahead and pull the head, and was amazed to see how utterly perfect the condition of engine is, even though it has 203k miles.  No cylinder ridge, and the valves/seats show almost no wear whatsoever.  I've never seen a high mileage engine in this kind of condition--ever.  I'll go ahead and give it a mild port/polish, lap the valves and install new stem seals.  I love the ALH.

Since this is an 11mm pump and my donor was an automatic, what size nozzles would allow me to maximize the power output for a big rig like a Vanagon?  I just ordered a very large L2A intercooler, but I don't want to produce much/any smoke that might clog the catalytic converter.  I gather that I can swap the nozzles, but there's no way to DIY dial in the spring tension, correct?
'87 300TD (OM606)
'90 300D (OM602)
'89 Vanagon Bluestar (ALH)
'01 EV Weekender (AXK)
'04 Passat Variant (BHW)

Reply #38August 27, 2016, 03:42:17 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Hubs, pulleys, and pumps, OH MY!
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2016, 03:42:17 pm »
Glad you figured it out.

The ALH engines are very impressive in that regard.  They seem to run forever.  My Jetta wagon has 250,000 miles on it and does not ever use any oil at all. 

Having someone with the proper equipment dial in the nozzles is necessary, IMO.  As far as which nozzles to get, that depends on a lot of factors.  You should match the nozzles to the amount of boost that you are running.  As far as 'maximizing the power output', you might want to consider that carefully.  The ALH can fairly easily be tuned to torque levels that will very quickly destroy a vanagon trans.  I'd probably keep max boost to 20 psi or so and keep it slightly under-fueled.  IDParts has a decent description of various nozzle options.

BTW, I just purchased a Porsche 4HP22ZF tiptronic trans.  I probably won't get to it for a while, but plan on installing it in my '91 in place of the 010.  Everything on paper looks like it should work out but there are still a few significant hurdles.  The end result will be an automatic trans with 4 speeds and a lockup torque converter.  The gearing for speeds 1-3 will match the 010 with the 3.73 R+P almost exactly which is fine, but having an additional top gear AND lockup is exactly what the 010 is lacking.  It should also be able to withstand an ALH with 'maximized power output'.  :-)     

Reply #39August 27, 2016, 04:24:17 pm

Zeitgeist

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Re: Hubs, pulleys, and pumps, OH MY!
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2016, 04:24:17 pm »
My very first diesel (and watercooled vehicle) was an '80 Rabbit w/250k.  I drove it until 275k, at which time it simply ceased to start reliably and had massive amounts of blowby.  I tore it down, and everything was pretty much hammered--I mean toast.  This ALH looks like it has 20k on it, not 200k.   

That's a really cool transmission project.  I recently tore down an Audi A8 5HP24 trans I picked up for free off of craigslist--wowza, that was a complicated unit.  My Audi has a 4HP18, and it's been extremely reliable, though it's a less complicated precursor to the 4HP22HL.  I imagine the flexplate and adapter plate will be a challenge to find for the ALH.  If I break this DK trans, I may step up to an 010 with Salim's new 3.08 R&P.  My Mercedes diesel spins the engine at just a hair under 3k @ 75mph with 2.65 R&P, though a lockup TC would probably alter that a bit.  It launches off the line like a V8, even with such tall gearing.     
'87 300TD (OM606)
'90 300D (OM602)
'89 Vanagon Bluestar (ALH)
'01 EV Weekender (AXK)
'04 Passat Variant (BHW)

Reply #40August 27, 2016, 04:39:59 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Hubs, pulleys, and pumps, OH MY!
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2016, 04:39:59 pm »
I seriously considered the taller R+P's for the 010.  My understanding is that the Porsche trans has the same 4-bolt pattern as the waterboxer.  If that's the case, my current ALH to 010 adapter plate should bolt the ALH to the Porsche trans.  I'm not sure yet what will be required for adapting the Porsche drive plate to the ALH crank.  Other hurdles will include starter, CV shafts, physically mounting it, and running a standalone electronic control. 
« Last Edit: August 27, 2016, 04:45:28 pm by libbydiesel »

Reply #41February 28, 2017, 12:22:28 pm

BGA

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Re: Hubs, pulleys, and pumps, OH MY!
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2017, 12:22:28 pm »
In reply#11 there is a pic of an ALH pump sprocket.
I haven't seen one but on this pic it seems to be heavy. If so, the reason must be kind of flywheel to even out pulse forces of the pumping and giving longer timing belt life.
I am building a mTDI with a 12 mm LT pump. Is this the way I should go?
Bo Gunnar

Reply #42February 28, 2017, 12:46:29 pm

vanbcguy

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Re: Hubs, pulleys, and pumps, OH MY!
« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2017, 12:46:29 pm »
The ALH pulley definitely has much more mass than the earlier ones. The ALH also has a longer timing belt interval despite having the same physical belt width. Likely the larger sprocket has some relation to that (though the belt itself is obviously different too).

If I were building something and I could fit the heavier sprocket I'd go with it - VW isn't in the habit of adding weight to things for no reason.

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Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #43March 09, 2017, 06:10:45 pm

BGA

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Re: Hubs, pulleys, and pumps, OH MY!
« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2017, 06:10:45 pm »
" (though the belt itself is obviously different too). "
In what way different? I hope tooth profile is same on all 1.9 TDIs.

Bo Gunnar
Bo Gunnar

Reply #44March 09, 2017, 08:58:48 pm

vanbcguy

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Re: Hubs, pulleys, and pumps, OH MY!
« Reply #44 on: March 09, 2017, 08:58:48 pm »
The tooth profile is the same but the routing, length and construction are not.

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Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen