Author Topic: Help me brainstorm  (Read 2773 times)

February 11, 2016, 08:39:42 am

Smoker

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Help me brainstorm
« on: February 11, 2016, 08:39:42 am »
Hey, guys.  Some of you have seen my thread where I asked about my intermediate pulley failure.  It's a 90 Jetta, originally gas, with an eco engine and trans, td pump, and K24

While the car is down, I'm debating some changes.  This car is new to me... I've only put about 500 miles on it.  My first impressions are

- K24 is far too laggy (I may see if timing adjustments help at all, but I doubt I'll be happy with it)
- Gearing is much too short (eco trans)
- When the boost finally comes on, it feels great.  One of the PO's claims that the pump was worked over by Giles, and I'm inclined to believe him.

My questions:
1. Turbo: would a vnt15 with some sort of mechanical vane control transform this car as much as it seems like it would?  I've been drooling over one of the Holsets that everyone seems to like so much, but the reality is I've got 3 vnt's sitting on my shelf.  With the K24, I'm seeing almost no boost until 2200-ish rpm, then by the time I'm at 4500 rpm, my 30psi boost gauge will be pinned.  Seems like 5 psi just above idle with a nice linear rise to the high teens at full tilt would be fantastic.  I've got the ability/resources to build a rear motor mount that will accommodate the turbo, and figure out oil lines, boost lines, etc.  The only part I'm still lost on is the vane control.  I've been digging around, but it seems like all the threads I can find on this are a few years old now, with broken pic links, etc.  I know this is a hot topic around here, so any help is appreciated.  (side note: most of the vnt vane control links in the FAQ give me a "you don't have permission to view this" message)

2. Transmission: I have a tdi 02j here, with shifter box, etc.  Have any of you run a similar trans with a 1.6?  I'm guessing that it would be pretty painful with the K24, but better with the vnt.  I know I'd have to do something about a trans mount, and hydro clutch, and axles, and, and,... I just can't see driving a car like this and only getting mpg's in the high 30's to low 40's.  If I can't get 45 on a bad day, I'll be better off selling the car and using my ALH Samurai as my daily. 

Thoughts?



Reply #1February 11, 2016, 03:06:02 pm

Dakotakid

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Re: Help me brainstorm
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2016, 03:06:02 pm »
For starters, look up information on head porting. I run 24's and they grunt right off the bottom and rip to the top.
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Reply #2February 11, 2016, 06:02:44 pm

vanbcguy

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Re: Help me brainstorm
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2016, 06:02:44 pm »
The K24 can definitely be fun. An easy option though is one of the smaller Holset turbos - search Alcaid and Holset on here and you'll find lots of info. The K24 is a 35+ year old design, there's been a lot of development since then!

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1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #3February 12, 2016, 09:18:50 am

RabbitJockey

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Re: Help me brainstorm
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2016, 09:18:50 am »
k24 also can have sticky wastegates so it could be stuck open a bit and slowing down spool up, just installing a boost controller will also make it spool up faster.  another thing to consider is that giles tends to tune his pumps so that they do not produce smoke, so he is very conservative with his off boost fueling, which slows spool up times, if you don't mind a little smoke u can play with the fuel settings to get better spool up, but i would check the wastegate and install a mbc first.  also the short ecodiesel gears aren't help spool up either, im sure first gear is over before the turbo even has a chance to make any noise.
01 Jetta TDI 100% stock daily
81 Rabbit:TDI-M ported head, Frank06 cam, PD intake, hybrid T3 turbo, Renault intercooler, Syl20 11mm pump, light weight fw, and yellow California Clutch clutch kit

Reply #4February 12, 2016, 09:35:59 am

libbydiesel

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Re: Help me brainstorm
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2016, 09:35:59 am »
The difference in low-end performance between a properly controlled vnt15 and a properly functioning k24 on a 1.6TD is astounding.  With the vnt15 you can have 10psi of boost when you let out the clutch in 1st.  With the vnt15 you basically get full boost at any time. 

Reply #5February 12, 2016, 11:15:30 am

RabbitJockey

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Re: Help me brainstorm
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2016, 11:15:30 am »
and vnt15 has about the same power potential as a k24 too so ur not losing anything, and theyre plentiful and cheap these days.  i'd rather spend a bit more money and get a holset personally... easier to setup, fast spool, and more power potential than vnt15 or k24
01 Jetta TDI 100% stock daily
81 Rabbit:TDI-M ported head, Frank06 cam, PD intake, hybrid T3 turbo, Renault intercooler, Syl20 11mm pump, light weight fw, and yellow California Clutch clutch kit

Reply #6February 12, 2016, 11:55:21 am

libbydiesel

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Re: Help me brainstorm
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2016, 11:55:21 am »
I haven't used one of the Holsets so I can't really comment.  He says he has 3 vnt15's sitting on his shelf, though. 

Reply #7February 12, 2016, 03:15:44 pm

RabbitJockey

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Re: Help me brainstorm
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2016, 03:15:44 pm »
i guess thats an important factor i didn't consider haha.

wasnt there a very old thread which may have been lost now, but it covered a guy that put a vnt on a rabbit with just a boost can to control it but he did show dyno numbers with a gtech.
01 Jetta TDI 100% stock daily
81 Rabbit:TDI-M ported head, Frank06 cam, PD intake, hybrid T3 turbo, Renault intercooler, Syl20 11mm pump, light weight fw, and yellow California Clutch clutch kit

Reply #8February 12, 2016, 03:39:07 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Help me brainstorm
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2016, 03:39:07 pm »
FspGTD installed one on a Rabbit with a boost can controlling the vanes and an external wastegate. to control max boost. 

Reply #9February 15, 2016, 07:38:22 am

RabbitJockey

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Re: Help me brainstorm
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2016, 07:38:22 am »
http://vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php/topic,1694.10%3bwap2.html

i figured i would post this link to the car me and andrew were discussing.  its actually an interesting thread, and this is a post build thread, theres a link to the original build thread in this one.  he documented everything and each change very well and has dyno numbers supporting each thing he did.  i wonder if jake is still around at all.  you can see he was running 12.5psi and making 80whp from a gtech which reads lower than a chassis dyno, and he did not modify the main spring on the governor, so there was a lot of power left not tapped in to on that car, and i would think he was making around the same power as a tdi, atleast peak wise, i would bet a tdi makes that peak power at a much lower rpm tho and for a longer period of time given the better tuning of electronics, the efficiency of a di, and the added displacemnt
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 08:14:16 am by RabbitJockey »
01 Jetta TDI 100% stock daily
81 Rabbit:TDI-M ported head, Frank06 cam, PD intake, hybrid T3 turbo, Renault intercooler, Syl20 11mm pump, light weight fw, and yellow California Clutch clutch kit