HOT DASHER, Can't cool it down. - page 1 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• HOT DASHER, Can't cool it down. by ORCoaster on 08 Jun, 2015 22:55
• Ok here's my recent sob story. 
  
  I am working on a 1.6 NA diesel in a 1980 Dasher.  I have tried the following things to get this engine to stop boiling the water out of it at Idle.
  
  1. New Water pump.  Standard on from NAPA, I think 40 mm hub.
  
  2. New 190, 160 and ran it last with no thermo. 
  
  3. Fan on constantly with no Thermo is 160 degrees at Idle.
  
  4. Blew out the heater core so I know water passes through it.  Hose check with hands verifies flow as well.
  
  5. All new hoses
   
  6. Engine recently rebuilt head gasket on right side of bulge on head.  3 notch.
  
  7. Timed to .88 mm two days ago and pump recently rebuilt. 
  
  8. Radiator in good condition, no missing cooling fins or damage.
  
  I have never seen an engine run this hot, Mine will barely warm to the middle of the gauge at idle.  Granted it was 100 in the sun here in Idaho but still not to come down except with the fan on 100 percent?  What kind of Ideas might your mind be telling you.  I am tapped out, mostly due to the 100 degree heat.
  
  Let me know what I am missing.  I can't think what might cause this.  Thanks
   
• #1 by srgtlord on 08 Jun, 2015 23:10
• head warped allowing combustion gasses to enter the coolant?
• #2 by ORCoaster on 08 Jun, 2015 23:42
• srgtlord-  Nope, not an issue with pressurized hoses.  Only once it starts to boil does it really tighten up the top rad hose.
  
  Swing and a miss. 
• #3 by EcoTX on 09 Jun, 2015 01:10
• Perhaps radiator or engine internal coolant passages are clogged, not enough flow through them to effectively cool.
• #4 by ORCoaster on 09 Jun, 2015 12:19
• I am beginning to lean towards the internal passages of the block because I did get the boiling water to cool at the bottom of the radiator by forcing the fan to turn on and stay on. 
• #5 by theman53 on 09 Jun, 2015 14:48
• It will overheat in about 2 miles if you drive it without a t stat, so don't drive it.
  
  What in the world does Engine recently rebuilt head gasket on right side of bulge on head mean???
  
  Timing is too retarded but shouldn't make up that big of deal with temp.
  
  You blew out the heater core but not the rad???
  
  How did you fill it? Could it still have air in system?
  
  Who rebuilt it? What did they do? Did they check to see if the block/head was flat?
  
  And of course, did you check to see how hot "too hot" was other than the vw 30 year old temp gauge was running higher than another one?
  
  
• #6 by Dakotakid on 09 Jun, 2015 16:04
• "Oben" means up in kraut on that head gasket. Just wondering......
  Generally, troubles accompany lack of attention to details............
• #7 by 92EcoDiesel Jetta on 09 Jun, 2015 17:09
• Could the cluster be off? Cluster regulated voltage is 10 volts, you may want to check that out.
• #8 by ORCoaster on 09 Jun, 2015 20:06
• 92 Eco-  This is a diesel engine, so I am not sure about the cluster thing.  Although this is kind of turning into a cluster of its own, if you know what I mean. 
  
  Dakotakid-  If the identification tab which shows the gasket as a three tab is on the right side of the bulge in the center of the head isn't that the proper direction for the gasket?  Wouldn't that be the Oben side up? 
  
  That is what I meant to say there theman53.  The tab is right of center.
  
  As to the rest of your questions so you can continue to scratch your head too. 
  
  Only idling the engine in the drive for now, that way I could kill it when it would show the first burp of overheating. 
  
  Your statement about timing being retarded has me looking at the manual.  This engine is a 1.6 NA Diesel taken from a Rabbit so don't we start at .88 mm and work towards 1.03 mm for advancement?  Manual for the 1.5 L which was removed says .86 mm.
  
  I did blow out the Rad and it cools just fine with the fan on for awhile. I can comfortably put my hand on the bottom of the radiator but not on the top when the fan is on. 
  
  Filling the system by taking off the hose on the top of the radiator and pouring water into it.  Hot lever to the  hot side when filling.  I checked all over the different hoses to be sure they were circulating water, heater core was pumping out hot air when I checked. 
  
  My son rebuilt the engine.  His first time with a diesel but is an engineer by profession and has very good mechanical skills, very good equipment and a shop that I lack.  He lives in Idaho and I live 14-16 hours away.  But I am here in ID, for other reasons and I was trying to assist after the rebuild.   
  He had the head flattened at the local machine shop so yes it is flat.  No pressure building in the hoses at all. 
  
  Temperature gauge is not the VDO gauge but a second one off the back of the head.  And when the temperature starts to boil the water that gauge is right on the 210 degree line.  VDO gauge is about 3/4 of the way to the right of center when it gets that hot. 
  
  Ok, that is the end of the extra information.   
  
  Thanks for thinking when I can't. 
  
   
• #9 by theman53 on 10 Jun, 2015 00:03
• Head is flat what about the block? Also, my gasket the "tab" goes left, I think it depends on mfg of the gasket, but they should all say top or oben on them. 210 with water should boil if the cap is off and 210 is not too hot. It is getting there, but even my old jetta would run 220 when it was really hot out. I would bank that there is still air in there and don't run it with no t stat, that is worse than running a tire with a football growing off of it.
  The timing should be .90 at the min and .95 for max on the 1.6na, the 1.5 had the yellow dot and should have been timed to 1.15 IIRC. Why didn't you bring the probe? Retarded timing should raise temp.
• #10 by ORCoaster on 10 Jun, 2015 00:37
• OK, thanks for those numbers.   
  
  I did bring the Lumy and associated gear and we did use it to get the timing set.  I measured it with the dial gauge as well and thought those numbers would be most familiar to folks.   I think I will suggest he bump the pump towards the engine a tad as this is the 1.6 and not the 1.5 L.  Almost forgot about the swap.
  
  My son is getting disgruntled with the problems of this 1980 Dasher and is talking about just unloading it as it isn't working well enough for him to use as a daily driver for his 10-12 mile to work trip.  He has a gas car that gets 38 mpg so the diesel was more about being able to use the veg oil for cheap fuel and have a less clean car for the dog to jump around in. 
  
  Thanks again.
  
• #11 by 92EcoDiesel Jetta on 10 Jun, 2015 08:50
• "92 Eco-  This is a diesel engine, so I am not sure about the cluster thing. "
  
  If the voltage regulator in the cluster is off, so will all the gauge readings, does not matter if the cluster is gas or diesel, they both use the same regulator, set at 10 V. Did you verify gauge readings with an IR thermometer?
• #12 by Dakotakid on 10 Jun, 2015 12:21
• The timing spec would probably contingent on the use of one of the original 'famed" yellow dot pumps.
  
  
• #13 by mtrans on 10 Jun, 2015 13:55
• Did you check temp with classic termometer in overflow jar?
• #14 by ORCoaster on 11 Jun, 2015 13:30
• Dakotakid   The original pump was the rebuilt 1.5 L engines' but with the 1.6 block, pistons and head I would tend to go towards that timing rather than the pump.  We swap them around all the time and I don't recall any caution to watch where it comes from and time to it versus the engine.
  
  Mtrans the secondary gauge hits 210 on the line and within 20 seconds the water is starting to bubble up out of the overfill.  I think it is accurate enough for telling me degrees versus the VDO line floating someplace between here or there.
  
  My son did say when he had it apart the first of two times he did not do the head flattening and the gasket was not sealing.  So that is when we talked block and head tolerances.  Even with the gasket sealed it ran well and didn't heat like it is now.   Upon redoing the head he said some of the valve clearances were no longer in tolerance and he heard a couple tapping the piston on start up,  He immediately shut it down and changed those to be in spec, no compression loss but I am wondering if some how the are still a problem.
  
  I have returned to Portland and at weeks end return home.  I couldn't fix anything but the bad smoke problem for him.  He had the  IP 180 degrees out and upon flipping the  pulley with the timing check it no longer does that and has much better power. 
  
  His engine is a lot tighter than mine.  You need a long breaker bar to turn it over by hand.  Where as mine I can do with a 17 MM wrench or 1/2 inch ratchet.  Could that be generating the heat, too much friction somewhere along the line?  Friction does equal heat, we all know that, and with what appears to be a working cooling system I am now chasing the heat generation side of the equation.
  
  Any thoughts there?   Valves on head too long?  Crank too tight?