Author Topic: 1.6 na Jetta crankcase hose headache  (Read 7903 times)

March 05, 2015, 11:40:46 pm

IvyRacer

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1.6 na Jetta crankcase hose headache
« on: March 05, 2015, 11:40:46 pm »
Hi!
First post - first VW - first diesel ... I've restored my share of vintage Japanese motorcycles,  and tinkered with a few carbureted vehicles ('67 Volvo, '83 Datsun, '66 Ford F250), but I came across this 1984 diesel jetta deluxe (lol) for the right price when I needed her most.  Unknown miles due to a broken odometer,  but po guesses 400k-500k.  Says he rebuilt the motor 10 years ago, and has easily driven 100k miles since.  It starts up every time, and only starts to get too hot when i drive it on the freeway when the oil is low... which is all the freaking time.  This motor leaks more than my old Datsun 720 (which is insane).   I spent an hour scrubbing away at the sludge coating the entire motor so i could try and pinpoint the leaks.
  After one trip,  there was a fresh shine of oil leaking from the hose that connects the valve cover to the air box, and at both ends.   This explains the oil splattered all over the otherwise-new air cleaner.  The other culprit appears to be somewhere behind the timing cover.  This leak is just as heavy, if not worse.   The rest of the mess all over the engine bay may just be blow-back covered in road dirt from those two spots.  The oil has been leaking so much,  so long,  that almost every piece of rubber in the engine bay is melting away.  I want to start replacing all of the rotted parts, but there's no point in doing so until i address the catastrophic leak.
After reading the heck out of this issue on this forum and others,  as well as making use of my manual (the red cover one everyone suggests), I now STRONGLY suspect my original problem to be a missing crankcase vent hose.   Well,  there IS a crusty old hose coming out of the crankcase, but it has been plugged with a giant bolt. My understanding,  is that this will cause an improper increase of pressure that will basically "blast" oil everywhere, and eventually start blowing seals (like the ones i believe are located behind the timing cover).  I keep hearing about a breather or ventilation hose that should connect to the valve cover/air box hose, but all I ever find are turbo diesel reproductions.  Can I rig a T-connection myself with whatever hose i can find at my local auto parts store?   Or will it run like crap (or not at all) without the mysterious restrictor I hear came in the oem hoses?

Any help is GREATLY appreciated.   I'm losing my mind over this stupid hose that no one seems to carry or make >_<



Reply #1March 06, 2015, 04:32:45 am

745 turbogreasel

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Re: 1.6 na Jetta crankcase hose headache
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2015, 04:32:45 am »
You want a CDR valve unless  runaway is in your plans
post a pic of the hose you do have, there are a couple configurations, and a lot can happen in 400K.

Reply #2March 06, 2015, 02:11:06 pm

Dakotakid

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Re: 1.6 na Jetta crankcase hose headache
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2015, 02:11:06 pm »
Did you ever see an old western where the cowboy shoots his horse in the middle of the desert to avoid more suffering?
Well, here is the deal.....your engine sounds clapped out. What you are describing is a massive amount of LONG-TERM blow-by. You probably not only have worn rings and guides and clobbered valves......but, I would be very willing to bet you have broken rings on at least some of those pistons.

And, no, you are not breaking any new ground here. These engines do NOT last forever and they need some pretty comprehensive care over the course of their lives.

I, personally, would use that "red book" to enlighten yourself as to how to undertake an intelligent full-rebuild.

Venting the block ( through the belly-button hole (front/center/bottom of block)) might help. But, ultimately, the crankcase does not pressurize like this on a remotely healthy engine.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 02:15:54 pm by Dakotakid »
The mask and the shot(s) are actually an IQ test. If you are wearing or circulating, you just failed the test. I can't feel sorry for you.

Reply #3March 06, 2015, 03:16:09 pm

745 turbogreasel

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Re: 1.6 na Jetta crankcase hose headache
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2015, 03:16:09 pm »
Or the valve cover cold be screwed on wrong, hard to say

Reply #4March 06, 2015, 03:56:17 pm

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Re: 1.6 na Jetta crankcase hose headache
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2015, 03:56:17 pm »
i mean if you block up that crankcasevent in a few miles you ll start blowing seals, good bet dakota is right and my 1st impression you want a good and rather full refresh of motor.
my idea was this, to delete the vent hose, get a ccv fliter that will fit that tube coming out of valve cover, like the one i had when i used a ccvent fliter on my ole typeI bug. then you need a block for intake, i found some pliable plastic covers type of thingies *caps, and a clamp or 2.
if you were near me id take a look at it and i do good work,
i figure you have a good bill right now, if you get good parts and work on it she can be of good and long service yet.
i figure if you open the ccvent all that 'release' of pressure wont help at this point, you have pressure building on pressure, that release id like to see for a few miles and see what it does :P
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 09:07:13 am by air-cooled or diesel »

Reply #5March 06, 2015, 06:04:53 pm

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Re: 1.6 na Jetta crankcase hose headache
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2015, 06:04:53 pm »
   I spent an hour scrubbing away at the sludge coating the entire motor so i could try and pinpoint the leaks.
while this sounds good, and we all(well most of us)like a clean engine, cleaning all this gunk can be a problem, for 1 any seals or gaskets you clean over, can leak after a cleaning, for 1 i know theres 1 seal for oil dipstick tube, was a problem to get tube to sit back as it did from factory, i ended up using silicone and hoped it stuck,

Reply #6March 06, 2015, 10:56:38 pm

Dakotakid

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Re: 1.6 na Jetta crankcase hose headache
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2015, 10:56:38 pm »
Ivy, this is what I mean by a "bellybutton vent."


See that little vent which used to hook up to Ben Franklin-model vacuum pumps? You can use a longer piece of hose to simply vent to atmosphere and loop it like over the top of the engine so the terminal end is higher than most of the engine. Crude....but, to the point.

Now watch all the "tree-huggers" come out of the darkness..............................
The mask and the shot(s) are actually an IQ test. If you are wearing or circulating, you just failed the test. I can't feel sorry for you.

Reply #7March 07, 2015, 03:38:50 pm

IvyRacer

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Re: 1.6 na Jetta crankcase hose headache
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2015, 03:38:50 pm »
So..... my boyfriend calls me an alarmist,  and insists the oil leak isn't as bad as my post implied.  A few more notes:  when i cleaned the motor,  i only used nylon brushes,  and was careful where i scrubbed to be sure i didn't do more harm than good.   I wasn't going for pristine.  Also, boyfriend now insists the oil I found dripping from behind the timing cover had actually originated from the valve cover hose leak.  I'm not totally convinced, but that sounds great.  I tried uploading photos multiple times,  multiple ways originally,  but this forum doesn't seem to like photobucket, and I'll have to resize everything later to try and "attach" it?

Anyway,  so I thought "screw it", and rigged up my own makeshift hose system with a pcv valve (bf insisted that if installed,  it would prevent a LOSS of pressure which we both suspected in allowing the crankcase access to the air box).   I cranked her up. . and it stated,  idled,  and ran fine until the first time i revved the motor.  This triggered the high pressure light to start flashing with that awful buzzer sound.   Curious,  i checked under the hood,  and didn't notice anything unusual except that now,  oil was surging out of the dip stick hole.  Turned it off.   Went to bed.  Far too sick and tired (literally. I'm quite ill at the moment) to deal with it last night. 

How did venting the crankcase cause an increase in pressure?   Is it even likely my high pressure sensor is malfunctioning?  I'm going to have another cup of coffee,  then go take a fresh look to see if I missed something in the dark last night. 

Reply #8March 07, 2015, 03:51:00 pm

IvyRacer

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Re: 1.6 na Jetta crankcase hose headache
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2015, 03:51:00 pm »
Ivy, this is what I mean by a "bellybutton vent."


See that little vent which used to hook up to Ben Franklin-model vacuum pumps? You can use a longer piece of hose to simply vent to atmosphere and loop it like over the top of the engine so the terminal end is higher than most of the engine. Crude....but, to the point.

Now watch all the "tree-huggers" come out of the darkness..............................

If I'm looking at the hole i think you mean,  we're talking about the same one.  There was a rotting braided hose plugged up with a bolt coming out of that.   It was seeping oil.  It must have been on there for a while, because the inner rubber of the hose had hardened and stuck to the vent surface. I had to cut it off to put my new experimental hose on there.

Reply #9March 07, 2015, 03:52:29 pm

air-cooled or diesel

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Re: 1.6 na Jetta crankcase hose headache
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2015, 03:52:29 pm »
remove pcv, these motors dont use 1. try again.
the leaking around the timing cover is usually the seals or front of valve cover. you can remove timing cover and get a look around the seals and look for dripige. some moisture around timing area is ok, too much is bad, make sure your belt is dry.
hope you had a good coffee and this helps,

Reply #10March 07, 2015, 05:06:58 pm

IvyRacer

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Re: 1.6 na Jetta crankcase hose headache
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2015, 05:06:58 pm »
I removed the pcv valve (noobie "gasser" move... I'll pick up a cdr valve), and test drove with the vent hose hooked up to the airbox/valve cover loop,  then with it just venting into the atmosphere.   Both ways triggered the high pressure alarm and i had to pull off and shut her down.  Then,  i remembered all the things i did last night while i was in a nyquil stupor, and one of those things was top off the oil since it was barely reading on the dipstick. Aaaand, it turns out i overfilled it >_<. 
Don't drive angry,  and don't work on your car while highly medicated.  *sigh*

This just gives me an excuse to change the oil again.  I'll have to take another look once the oil level is correct.  If I can find a cdr while I'm out,  I'll grab it, but parts for this car aren't readily available in my area.   Is there a generic cdr that will work,  or do I need a specific one for my 1.6 na motor?

Reply #11March 07, 2015, 05:39:59 pm

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Re: 1.6 na Jetta crankcase hose headache
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2015, 05:39:59 pm »
it was barely reading on the dipstick. Aaaand, it turns out i overfilled it >_<. 
Don't drive angry,  and don't work on your car while highly medicated.  *sigh*
im always medicated, heres to good(&natural)'medication'. hehehmoowah,sniffsniffcough. yea hopefully you caught that before,,well,what do you mean by a cdr valve? all ive seen are straight hose connections. when you run it next with hoses venting to atmosphere check pressure coming out of hose. except for a few hiccups you seem to be doing good, hopefully you ll get this straightened out soon. if in the event i accidently over fill, with a clean pan or even a empty water gal bottle cut in half, open drain plug and drain some to pan, get ready and put plug back in and resnug, check oil and the oil you just took out you can now use to top off.

Reply #12March 07, 2015, 07:55:52 pm

IvyRacer

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Re: 1.6 na Jetta crankcase hose headache
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2015, 07:55:52 pm »
I'm getting mixed messages on the cdr topic.   On one side, i hear "put it in or the motor will blow up!", and the other side says "cdrwhathuh?  I've never had to use whatever that is". . My motor is a NA 1.6

Is this a Turbo vs. Non-turbo issue?  Or is this only an issue with older motors experiencing severe blow-by?  I'm just getting more confused....

I know my motor is no spring chicken,  and i intend to keep this car and give it a complete rebuild... but for now,  i just need it to limp along until i get caught up.  I don't have the time or money for the full rebuild it might need right now.  In a month or 2, maybe,  but for now,  i can't take it out of commission for more than an afternoon at a time.

Reply #13March 07, 2015, 09:28:06 pm

TylerDurden

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Re: 1.6 na Jetta crankcase hose headache
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2015, 09:28:06 pm »
Eh... no need to worry...

Like the kid says, you can put a hose on it and let the vapors vent out the back.  A "puke-tank" would be a bit better, to catch some of the oil and then use a tube to the intake burn the vapors (or just vent).

The risk of burning the vapors un-mitigated, is runaway, where the engine feeds itself on vapors in a vicious cycle.

Some folks run the hose from the block up to the valve cover vent, but it sounds like there is enough blowby to consider the runaway risk, and opt for a puke-tank or vent to atmosphere.

(I'm a card-carrying treehugger, but I figure any 50mpg smokey mk1 is better than any 25mpg gasser. )
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 06:09:25 am by TylerDurden »

Reply #14March 08, 2015, 08:35:53 am

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Re: 1.6 na Jetta crankcase hose headache
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2015, 08:35:53 am »
you can get a typeI aftermaket ccvent box, should be affordable and has a filter in it and will catch oil. used to be able to find at your local bug shop,