Author Topic: Turbo cooling options.. (Read 4877 times)

ccices · « **on:** March 20, 2006, 05:03:56 pm »

I am looking at adding some type of intercooler to my 91 TD Jetta. But I was wondering.. would it be possible to use some other device to cool the intake air other then an intercooler?
Does anyone know what the drop in temp is that an intercooler develops?
I have an idea that might well work.. but I think I need someone with more turbo/intercooler exp then me to guide me along..

Master ACiD · « **Reply #1 on:** March 20, 2006, 06:42:43 pm »

i hate to be the nerdy bguy who rags on and on about somthing so simple but i feel like i should explain how carefull a selection of an intercooler must be.

the drop in temp depends on the efficency of the intercooler and what style it is, also what turbo you have, the exhaust backpressure, the cam timing, the boost pressure, the fueling, the fuel timing, the intercoolers rated cfm @ (X) bar, ambient temp, where you actually put the intercooler, the shrouding around it, and probably a dozen other conditions i cant even think of.

with air to air you cant get the temp under ambient, but it does a good job for 99% of all turbo cars. i was just at the 12 hours of sering, and i did not see a single car there that did not use an air to air intercooler. doesnt mean there wasnt any air to water setups, its just that i didnt see any.

you can get the temp under ambient , actually WELL under ambient if you use an intercooler with a dry ice. you can get under ambient by spraying nitrous on a conventional intercooler. it just sepends on how far you want to go.

most people use use a plain old air to air intercooler and dont worry about water and ice and nitrous. and actually, for daily driver use and road racing air to air is normally the best.

for drag racing, nitrous, dry ice, water, all work great for spraying onto (not into) an intercooler.

you can spray nitrous or water into an intercooler, but this has other consiquences.

ccices · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2006, 07:07:31 pm »

actually, not thinking of using a conventional intercooler.. thinking of building a device similar to a Hilsch tube to cool the air as it comes out of the turbo. The hilsch tube takes in compressed air and splits it to cold air and hot air. I can discard the hot air and use the cold air to the intake. Will it work? who knows.. but sure be fun trying... =)
http://www.visi.com/~darus/hilsch/

Darkness_is_spreading · « **Reply #3 on:** March 20, 2006, 10:55:06 pm »

In the case of cooling the air from the compressor, you will suck air into the turbine, force it out the aluminum mouth, then route intercooler piping to the intercooler, then run the return line to the intake manifold

Busdriver · « **Reply #4 on:** March 21, 2006, 11:36:12 am »

Extremely cool idea! Wonder why automotive engineers haven't tried this already. Certainly does eliminate the problem of where to mount the intercooler in a turbo-diesel vanagon. Also adds a much needed supplemental heat source in the wintertime, just add a diverter to blow the "hot end" air from the Hilsch tube into the passenger compartment!

ccices · « **Reply #5 on:** March 21, 2006, 04:29:30 pm »

yeah.. I have contacted a machine shop to make up a test unit.. Going to put it through its paces and perhaps post up the results here.

Wonder what else I can do with the heat end?

I think the big factor will be how much does it reduce the boost down to by going through the vortex. Who knows.. maybe one of those million dollar ideas here.. just no one go steal it on me!

jtanguay · « **Reply #6 on:** March 21, 2006, 07:46:51 pm »

if you really want to get 'nerdy', why not think of using heat pipes? you could insulate the heat pipe and channel the heat directly to a heat exchanger in front of the car (no big messy tubing to the front of the car, and no pressure loss.)

the system would need an exchanger coming out of the turbo compressor somewhat like a water exchanger except using heat pipes. The idea comes from the more popular way to cool computers. This system could be very efficient depending on the size of the heat exchanger for the boost cooling.

QuickTD · « **Reply #7 on:** March 21, 2006, 08:14:58 pm »

Quote

Wonder why automotive engineers haven't tried this already.

The big reason is the efficiency, or more precisely, the lack of it. Vortex coolers are very effective where space is at a premium and a source of high pressure gas is available. They are no more efficient than any other means of refrigeration, less so, in fact. As you can see in Hilsch's graphs an inlet pressure of 3 atmospheres (~45psi) will only yield a temperature drop of 20ºC, and at 1 atmosphere (~15psi, typical boost pressure) you don't really much of a drop at all. It would be more efficient to install air conditioning and use the evaporator to cool the charge air...

Busdriver · « **Reply #8 on:** March 22, 2006, 07:09:41 am »

So for this to work at all, the turbocharger would have to blow four times the volume of air required by the engine for combustion, at 60psi, to deliver 1atm boost @ 20 degrees C below turbo temp, air to the intake manifold & three times that volume of very hot waste heated air, which is way too much heat for the passenger compartment, even in antarctic.

hillfolk'r · « **Reply #9 on:** March 28, 2006, 09:09:53 pm »

yea but the breeze from the blower,,would blow off all the little bedbuggies you have from sitting around in antarctica for the last 3 months