How does my 1.6TD idle sound to the experts? / Stalling

[TimpanogosSlim]

I'll see if i can get someone to hold the camera while i crank it. No wife or kids here.

[theman53]

Just get good sound. The way it sounds running I would think you are alright, but sound on the internet can be deceiving.

[TimpanogosSlim]

I'l see what i can do tomorrow after work

[TimpanogosSlim]

High temp today will be 30f. You want this with or without block heater?

.:Sent by pneumatic tubes

[TimpanogosSlim]

it actually got up to 45f today.

Here's an audio-only recording from outside the car with the hood open.

http://ej0rge.asuscomm.com/R_MIC_141117-060040.mp3

A timing issue wouldn't surprise me. Unfortunately I have a day job now, get home after dusk, have no covered workspace, and it's gonna be wet this weekend. But if there's a reasonable break in the weather I can give timing another try.


oh, and yes there is air in the tank return, and in the leak line nearest the injector with the cap. perhaps the cap has failed - I'll get a brass tee and do that arrangement

[EcoTX]

All I can say after listening to that is WOWOW
Poor turbo diesel (and starter) !!

If this were a normal 1.6TD I'd say you have timing WAY off or some dead cylinders...
Since you have both a franken engine and a franken pump, not sure what advice to give, you're in very experimental territory and kind of on your own here.
About the only thing absolute you can rule out are compression numbers, do you know the compression numbers?
I mean you literally have an engine and pump that is a mish-mash of parts unlike anyone else's in the world, so collaboratively diagnosing things over the internet becomes damn near impossible in my mind.
We all know the 3 things diesels need to run, and the fact that it eventually starts and idles proves it is at least getting those 3.
Beyond those 3 things there are a million things that take over to make it go up and down the road optimally and efficiently.

I think this is one of the well known issues with the AAZ head on a 1.6 is poor cold starts. You have definitely proven that with the sound clip.
I'm afraid it's just the nature of the beast you have created...

I would completely rule out compression and air leaks in the fuel then just get to tinkering/experimenting with slightly different static timing values next.  Just change one thing at a time and test.
You are in uncharted territory, no one out there is going to be able to tell you, "oh yea just set this thing to x.xxmm and turn this screw here and this one here and you should be good", it is all up to you.

[theman53]

Sounds like a ton of air in pump and possibly an idle spring that doesn't belong in the vw pump

[TylerDurden]

Ja, air in the IP for sure... beyond that will be hard to say until air is gone.

[TimpanogosSlim]

yeah the air is a confirmed problem

Idle spring though? I know my pump is a mongrel and i have a line on a VW turbo pump, but how do you get a wrong idle spring from that recording? just asking so i can understand, i mean

[theman53]

I am guessing. You have said you had issues with letting the clutch out and stalling. Fix the air and see if it is the spring or you need more main fuel or something else. But the way it idled sounds like something is up with that spring if it is not the same as the vw one. Air seems to be a huge problem as it should never take that long to start. Please tell me you have seated the rings and not let it idle a ton.

[TimpanogosSlim]

I did have my foot on the pedal for the first bit of running there.

It has idled a total of maybe 5 minutes. Adjusting the shift linkage and fuel solved the stalling issue and it has been around the block once.

.:Sent by pneumatic tubes

[theman53]

Well I would say most of the issue is the air in the fuel then.

[EcoTX]

Can you get a bunch of pictures or video of the clear return line coming out of the pump while cranking and idling?

A properly working Bosch VE pump should be self priming and also not need any help pulling in fuel on its own from the tank.

They are pretty tolerable of quite a bit of air ingestion actually, don't be concerned if it is just a few bubbles.
 
Here's my return line priming up for the first time with a pump and filter full of fuel, tons of bubbles/foam/air, you can clearly see it.
http://youtu.be/QdA8YgaqnvA?t=1m30s

Then here it is right after starting...
http://youtu.be/QdA8YgaqnvA?t=3m10s

Kind of hard to tell, but the return line is solid foamy bubbles from that point until the end of the video, but the engine is running fine. The pump is just purging itself of the air as designed.
So don't be too alarmed if you see some air/bubbles/foam in the line, at idle circulation rates it could take a very long time to completely purge itself of air.
It is best really to take it for a drive through varying higher RPM's to really get all the air out quickly.

[TimpanogosSlim]

I may be able to. I forgot to look at the lines immediately before this startup. When i last checked under the hood a couple days ago, it had one small bubble in the tank return.

After this startup, there were several large bubbles in the tank return, and the leak line nearest the capped nipple was almost all air. Thus my presumption that the cap leaks.

I have a highish-end point-n-shoot digital camera that records 1080p video, a tripod, and some halogen work lights, so a startup video is doable.

I know i don't need the lift pump, but it was already installed when i bought the car, and sure is handy for priming.

.:Sent by pneumatic tubes