unable to start motor! - page 1 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• unable to start motor! by docterelliott on 12 May, 2014 08:18
• just finished putting the motor back together and the injector pump was working fine when I removed it, but now the vehicle doesnt seem to want to start.  I have installed an inline boat hand pump in the fuel feed line right before the IP, primed the IP until fuel seeped out of the return banjo bolt, verified the solenoids working, and cracked the hard lines going to the injectors and still nothing.  I do have fuel seeping from cylinder 2 and 4's injectors so I tightened those lines down but left the other two cracked.  I have my wife cranking the motor while I pump the hand pump.  It just cranks for what seems like forever and we've been at this for a few days now and Im almost ready to call it quits and sell the motor.  Any help would be eternally appreciated.
• #1 by sgnimj96 on 12 May, 2014 09:38
•      You gotta say what kind of car it is.    Don't burn up your starter,  you'll need that
• #2 by docterelliott on 12 May, 2014 11:14
• sorry its a 1.6 na.  how long should I be cranking at a time?  ive been holding it for about 15-20 seconds
• #3 by sgnimj96 on 12 May, 2014 11:31
•   I don't know exactly,  but getting your starter really hot can ruin it (sooner or later).      You can feel it with you hand to see if it's heating up.    Keep recharging your battery if you can...  or just pull start it (that's the best way to get it going)
• #4 by docterelliott on 12 May, 2014 11:54
• pull start? is that the same as push start? how exactly would I do that without actually pushing the truck down the road?  kinda difficult to do that with just me and a prego wifey, lol.  also with regards to the fuel seeping from the hard lines...should it be spraying out instead?
• #5 by Jetmugg on 12 May, 2014 12:34
• I like to leave all the lines loose at the injectors until all of them have diesel visibly running out of them, before tightening any.
  
  Pull starting won't burn up your starter, and has the potential to get higher "cranking" rpm's as well.
  
  Have you verified the correct orientation of the crank, cam, and injection pump to one another?
  
  Steve.
• #6 by Toby on 12 May, 2014 12:50
• First, do you have 12v KO to the fuel cutoff solenoid on the IP? Have you pumped fuel through the IP until it runs clear (w/o bubbles) out the OUT banjo bolt hole in the IP? Are you sure the IN and OUT bolts are in their proper places? Do you have voltage at the GPs when they are cycling? Are the GPs good? Are you sure?
  
  Fuel won't "spray" out of a loose injector line a cranking speeds usually. It will kind of dribble out. Tighten everything back up and drag start it. Don't try push starting it if you value your marriage. Tow it with a nylon strap. They are pretty forgiving unlike chains. Pull it as long as it takes to start. This might be some distance, if the problem is an air lock in the IP or if you have no GP function. Dear not, oif all else is well it will work the air through. I have tow started old diesel Rabbits with 200 psi compression. You just have to drag them a while.
  
  
• #7 by TylerDurden on 12 May, 2014 15:01
• Before you push/pull...
  
  What work was done? Did you re-time the engine as per Bentley manual?
  
  
  
• #8 by docterelliott on 12 May, 2014 21:28
• I dont think push/pull starting is an option in my neighborhood as we have speed bumps all over the place and one way roads.  its very tight housing development with children running around everywhere and outside the neighborhood are main busy roads.  anyway I can crank while hooking up a compressor to the fuel feed with a good amount of psi? yes I have timed everything to the bentley except  for the timing that involves a gauge on the side of IP. figured I would get it started first then run it over to my buddys house for that.  The solenoid does have power as do the glow plugs but I will recheck in the morning to make sure nothing has changed.
• #9 by TylerDurden on 13 May, 2014 04:12
• Quote from: docterelliott on 12 May, 2014 21:28

  ...I have timed everything to the bentley except  for the timing that involves a gauge on the side of IP.

  
  That is the most likely reason the engine won't start.
  
  Until the IP timing is set, the other variables are moot.
• #10 by Gizmoman on 13 May, 2014 05:54
• Quote

  The solenoid does have power as do the glow plugs but I will recheck in the morning to make sure nothing has changed

  
  Remove the wire from the fuel cut-off solenoid and with the ignition on, touch the wire connector to the spade a few times, you should hear it click.
  Relax and be systematic as you do things. You said you have fuel seeping from 2 & 4 so it's probably OK but it's a simple test and eliminating possible issues is the goal.
  
  If you can't buy a timing tool (baby on the way), mark where the IP is now, loosen the bolts and bump it just a tiny amount towards the head. Tighten one of the bolts and try it again. Keep doing this (going in both directions from your mark) till it starts. Don't crank it for more that 5-8 seconds and wait five minutes or more between cranks. It's tough to be patient with stuff like this, but it will pay off and build character as well
• #11 by Toby on 14 May, 2014 18:17
• More like 20-30 seconds cranking and a minute or two is more like it. 5-8 seconds is pretty conservative.
  
  
  FWIW you do not have to tow very fast or very far to get it to light. You could also tow it out of your neighborhood before you try to tow start it.
  
  The most important thing at this point is getting the cam and IP timing correct. Did you time the cam with the lock bar, or just eyeball it. Until you get the cam and IP timing right you are just chasing you tail.
  
  The dial indicator is not that expensive. I have bought used ones for $35. I think you can get them off fleaBay for $65. If you are going to to own these cars you need one.
  
  Heres one for $53.
  
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Diesel-Injector-Pump-Timing-Gauge-Tool-Injection-/331201708043?hash=item4d1d29000b&item=331201708043&pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&vxp=mtr
  
  
• #12 by Dakotakid on 14 May, 2014 18:26
• Naw, man......EVERYBODY KNOWS you kin jus' a-hillie a-billie-time these (cough cough).
  Dat is the onlyest way yew kin get 63 miles per imperial quart!
  
  It's TRUE.
  I read it on the internet.
  
  (...and, self-appointed messiahs NEVER lie!)
• #13 by Gizmoman on 14 May, 2014 20:43
• Ok - I'm possibly the least experienced guy here but still, 15 seconds is a long time. Put your hand on the starter after 5 and if you can leave it there, go ahead and add more seconds. If getting the proper tools is out of budget, needing a new starter won't help the issue.
  
  Perfect timing is well. . . perfect. IMHO these engines aren't Swiss watches and I was out quite a bit (advanced) on my first start.
  FWIW, my IP sat in the box from Giles for nearly a year before I installed it.
  EDIT - I also want to add that I installed a lift pump - about 18 bucks. Different application - just sayin.
• #14 by 745 turbogreasel on 14 May, 2014 22:12
• I put my  pump in a full 180* out, and it still started.
  The main thing with pull starting is  BE SURE YOU REMOVED  THE CAM LOCK.