!.6TD JX pump on AAZ

[AAZTristar]

Hey all, I have a new to me 1989 Syncro Tristar (Vanagon pickup) that came from the factory with a 1.6TD JX engine. A couple years ago the PO had a shop install a new AAZ long block using all the JX peripherals (pump, exhaust, intake, turbo, etc).

I'm working on getting it to run smoother. The beast smokes real bad at start-up and has loud diesel "nailing" Once warmed up it runs OK, but still very loud rattling and my milage is not what I'd expect (about 20mpg).
I have bought the necessary tools and checked the engine timing (good) and the pump timing ( at .99mm, .039in ) That timing seems good for the JX, but being on a AAZ block should I be timing for the AAZ ( about .80mm )??

From what I have read the symptoms indicate the timing being too advanced. What do you think? Should I time it closer to the AAZ at about .80mm?
Thanks!!

[the caveman]

The timing sounds like it may be a little high, but that's where I had the timing on my Transporter with a 1.9 l NA with a Giles pump. I think someone has maxed the timing and fuel screw to compensate for too small a pump for the engines needs. I would source out a AAZ  pump. I may be wrong ,but I think the JX pump may have a head as small as 8mm ,where you could use one up to 10mm. Of course the turbo is still small, but displacement is displacement. But if you don't want to fix I will buy it BECAUSE I AM VERY VERY JEALOUS OF YOU AND YOUR TRUCK

[AAZTristar]

Thanks Caveman. yep, it's a nice truck. Or it will be when I get the running problems fixed.
Here is a link to my post on theSamba:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=579387&highlight=aaz

I was hoping someone could tell me definitely whether the pump timing is set to the pump type (1.6TD JX) or to the engine (1.9TD AAZ)?

I have backed the pump up to .96mm and it seems a little quieter, still just as smoky. Adjusting the IP was easier than I thought it would be. The only real fun was rotating the engine. I can't access the crank bolt (muffler in the way) so I jacked up the passenger side rear wheel and leaving it in fourth gear rotated the wheel to move the engine. A little bit fusty, but worked.

Still very concerned about the loud engine noises. It is a new long block (per receipts) so the internal bits should match properly.
Maybe bad injectors? (original JX), or worn pump?

If I can ever figure how to post videos maybe a movie will help.

[Gizmoman]

If you aren't sure about the injector condition, I would pull them and have them gone through - even just for peace of mind. A bad injector can really mess up the engine (so I've read). Not sure if they can cause smoke when they're bad but they can make a lot of racket.

[AAZTristar]

Thanks Gizmoman.
Yep, after messing with the pump timing today, I'm beginning to think it's time to consider new/rebuilt injectors. And if that doesn't help then time to spend some serious cash for a Giles pump upgrade/rebuild.

On the injectors, I've found some 130bar injectors that fit, but are those too low? I believe the JX came with 155bar. What kid of difference will the lower pressure injectors make?

[Gizmoman]

Thanks Gizmoman.
Yep, after messing with the pump timing today, I'm beginning to think it's time to consider new/rebuilt injectors. And if that doesn't help then time to spend some serious cash for a Giles pump upgrade/rebuild.

On the injectors, I've found some 130bar injectors that fit, but are those too low? I believe the JX came with 155bar. What kid of difference will the lower pressure injectors make?

I believe it changes the timing - 130's will squirt a tad earlier.
Giles can assist with the injectors as well - great guy. I sent him mine along with my pump. He ended up sending new ones back along with my old ones - IIRC, my stock ones were 130 as well.

[AAZTristar]

Oh brother, I've been reading and searching, reading and searching, reading… and I'm just not sure which way to go.

Is it better to have my JX pump rebuilt/upgraded by Giles, with new/rebuilt JX injectors. Or, source an AAZ pump, two stage injectors and pipes? (and face the cost of rebuilding those?)

The engine has JX intake/exhaust manifolds and a new JX style turbo (068-145-701QX)

Any thoughts?

[vanbcguy]

The two stage injectors don't do anything for power, just noise. The pilot stage gets a burn started before the main injection event which in turn reduces the sudden rise in pressure when the main burn starts. The result is less diesel noise. Performance will be fine with the single stage injectors, it will just sound more like a 1.6.

[Doka Todd]

The whole probably isn't cost effective, you should probably just sell the truck to me and make it my problem 

[AAZTristar]

The whole probably isn't cost effective, you should probably just sell the truck to me and make it my problem 

  You're the third person to ask! Anything is for sale at the right price.

Looks like I'm gonna source a Giles AAZ pump and injectors. $$$
Still need some AAZ pipes.

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

Hey all, I have a new to me 1989 Syncro Tristar (Vanagon pickup) that came from the factory with a 1.6TD JX engine. A couple years ago the PO had a shop install a new AAZ long block using all the JX peripherals (pump, exhaust, intake, turbo, etc).

I'm working on getting it to run smoother. The beast smokes real bad at start-up and has loud diesel "nailing" Once warmed up it runs OK, but still very loud rattling and my milage is not what I'd expect (about 20mpg).
I have bought the necessary tools and checked the engine timing (good) and the pump timing ( at .99mm, .039in ) That timing seems good for the JX, but being on a AAZ block should I be timing for the AAZ ( about .80mm )??

From what I have read the symptoms indicate the timing being too advanced. What do you think? Should I time it closer to the AAZ at about .80mm?
Thanks!!

I would have thought that a couple of years installation of the AAZ in a Vanagon, for the purpose of more power/acc'n, might mean it's no-longer a 'new' engine.
I would consider compression checks.
Re timing, I would use JX spec.
However, injectors may have dropped in break pressure which advances injection, so swinging pump whilst idling is the way to go ultimately.
 Later nozzles were quieter, as they contained an element of pre-squirt.
Thus AAZ dual spring injectors are not unique in their pre-squirt, just that you could notionally adjust the pre-squirt away from the main injection, although VW then slapped the caveat, that they were non-DIY-serviceable... [lies].

Try more retardation.
Try less or even more fueling.
Your turbo to pump hose is connected I assume!
 Test your injectors, and check compression, before rushing off to buy a Giles pump...

[AAZTristar]

True. A couple years doesn't make for a "new" engine. Actually engine was installed 11/9/2012, not "new" either, but fresher than it was!
I thought about building a pop tester for the injectors, rebuilding those myself and then having the JX pump rebuilt. But the idea of having a fresh Giles pump with the quieter AAZ injectors and pipes that fit correctly (not all bent to fit) is a nice comfort.
It will also add drivability to the truck!

From what I have read, the Giles rebuild cures the AAZ of it's fueling issues.

[Gizmoman]

I'm running a GFiles 1.6 pump on my AAZ and fuel is not an issue at all - air from the K-14 is (was)

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

From what I can see, the JX pump has a 9mm injection piston. so does all the other 1.6 stuff, except the 1v which has 8mm.
The AAZ also has a 9mm piston.

However the AAZ has a steeper injection cam, say 3.5mm, compared with 2.3mm of the 1.6's.
Unfortunately this means it won't rev as high as a 1.6, due to cam float.

Standard boost pin for an AAZ is a blank, so better to use the tapered 1.6.
 
Best is the extra tapered GTD pin. 

So, max speed will be with a 1.6 pump and max power with a 1.9 pump.

Vanagon probably won't do much over 5000 revs safely anyway.

I've not seen one of Giles' pumps, but I suspect 1.6, with a softer longer advance spring, with deeper advance cover and raised rev limiter. A kind of yellow dot pump, for 'modern' engines...

[AAZTristar]

If I change over to an AAZ pump and the matching injectors/pipes are there any other parts I'll need to make this work?
Basically I'll be bringing the AAZ long block back to stock, although it will still have the JX intake/exhaust manifolds and the K14 turbo (which is only a year old).

I'm really sorry to ask dumb questions, this is my first diesel.