Priming Injection Pump Problems

[Spokerider]

I was reading a bunch of posts on using ether as a starting agent and diesels........hummm, scary stuff. Get the dose right, and it *should* work OK, get the dose wrong, and the rings [ or worse ] are done.

Being new to vw diesels, especially newly rebuilt ones, and never having used ether before, I'm going to pass on it and go with WD40 aerosol. How much to spray in while cranking? 1 second? Longer? Until it fires?

I'll start with drill-priming the oil galleries / turbo lines again first......in the off chance that WD40 works for me.

[Spokerider]

Back trying to get the AAZ going again this AM.

Primed the oil pump, mity vac on the fuel OUT line again, energized the shut off solenoid, pulled cold start handle, cracked open 2 injector hard lines, energized the glow plugs then cranked the starter over. Sprayed a shot of WD40 into the turbo.......bluish smoke, but no run. Tried two more times with the WD40, longer shots this time, same as before, no start just puffs of smoke.

Bought some Kleen Flow stating ether. I did not energize the glow plugs this time, just the shut off solenoid. Cranked the starter over, a quick shot of ether across the turbo's bow, white puffs of smoke but no start. The RPM's did increase slightly and only for a moment.......nothing too appreciable however. Tried it 2 more times with ether. If I shot another spray of ether too soon before the last one [ while engine still cranking over ] the RPM's hesitated for a moment, and then returned to the original cranking speed. Observing this hesitation, I deemed it unwise to spray ether more / longer. Again, white puffs of smoke but no vroooom.  No fuel weeping at the injectors I had cracked open either.

*Should* the engine actually run on ether, the way I did it.......no energized glow plugs and all?

BTW, glow plugs are new Duratherms.....and I tested them before installing.
Cam timing is on....cam lobes "UP" on number 1 cylinder, crank at TDC, pump sprocket locking pin in correct position in pump bracket hole, and the pump timing is set to .85mm.

[wolf_walker]

A reasonably healthy pump shouldn't need all that to get fuel into the injector lines.
Something is boned imo.

[theman53]

Ether on those fresh rings can take the temper out in a hurry. Good luck with your project.

[745 turbogreasel]

I can send you CA ether, it doesn't  seem t burn  that hot....
Timing  should not be a factor in priming even if it isn't right.

Will it start on ether without glow plugs?  Usually if compression is  good, may take some cranking to build heat.  Maybe not as well if the  IP isn't working at all.
If it hesitates, you are overdosed.  Gas on a rag or air filter  is a bit gentler, and  runs OK  as long as the engine is cold.

[TylerDurden]

The litmus test for IP delivery is to remove the fuel-cutoff plunger. If that doesn't get fuel to the hardlines with the throttle open, the IP should go back to the bench.

[burn_your_money]

When I had the solenoid out and in my hand, I energized it with 12v, and the plunger and spring shot out.

This is backwards to what is suppose to happen. Swap the solenoids around, or rather remove the advance solenoid and give it power and see if it sucks in or shoots out. The spring should be on the other end of the plunger on the advance solenoid if it is the shooting out type.

You need the solenoid that pulls the plunger in to be installed on the pump head.

DO NOT attempt to start your engine without the stop solenoid plunger installed unless you have a solid plan for killing the engine. You obviously can't dump the clutch but loosening the injection lines will kill the engine.

[Spokerider]

It's all sage advice guys thanks. I do appreciate the input to help me through this.

The Kleen Flow ether says it's safe for use on diesels right on the can......but not recommended for diesels with glow plugs......so I would not energize the GP's with it based upon that. I'm done with the ether for now at this point in any case.

I thought about trying the engine with the plunger removed from fuel shut off solenoid, then wondered how I would shut the engine down if it revved too high? Manual fuel shut off lever [ which this pump has ].....then I got to thinking how when I disassembled the pump for new seals, I took apart the manual shut off lever and did not mark the spline on the shaft first, so when I put it back together, the lever / shaft were aligned by memory only.........so I'm not certain I have them back together correctly. Further, I wasn't sure HOW that little lever stopped the fuel flow, to see if was working as reassembled.

Then, I got thinking about what 745 said, about the control collar.......when I researched to see just what that part was, and what it did, I see it is tied in with the tensioning lever and the manual fuel shut off lever, the way it slides on the plunger shaft. Then, going back by memory, I don't recall inserting the little protruding nub on the bottom of the tensioning lever INTO the recess hole in the control collar. All of the other steps I did are clear in my memory, but I don't remember doing that. Dunno if it's possible to place the tensioning lever into the pump without having the nub in the collar hole or not.......but now I have doubts if I assembled these parts correctly, and that ?would? account for not getting fuel to the hard lines. So maybe the tensioning lever is not in position, maybe the shut off lever, or maybe both.

So, as others have mentioned, I'm feeling that there is something effed in the IP, and that it should be making high pressure fuel by now, so I'm going to pull the pump again and have look see.

Maybe I still have a $3000 boat anchor, maybe not.....we'll see.

[burn_your_money]

Before you pull the pump check the stop solenoids.

All you really need to do is pull the top off the pump to see if the collar is not on the throttle/governor nub thing.

I would recommend disabling the manual kill switch thing, unless you need it. It is actually there to limit starting fuel so that the engine doesn't puff black smoke when it first starts up. Worthless IMO. If you have that set wrong it definitely could mess up the starting fuel.

[Spokerider]

Well that was it.....I didn't have the tensioning lever nub in the control collar hole.........what an idiot eh? It appears that the fuel shut off lever IS correctly adjusted.........we'll see.

Man, that last throttle spring sure is a BEAR.

Running late for work.......gotta finish tomorrow.

[745 turbogreasel]

Well, sounds like nothing should have been hurt at least.

I'm guessing the vid is  step by step without going much into what or why?

[burn_your_money]

Good to hear you found the problem!

[RobertMcC]

Looking at those cables, they are little too small of a gauge for starting diesel. MIN 2 GA wiring. Power wire looks no more then 10ga. Prolly not allowing the engine to spin fast enough to really compress the diesel.

Recommended to ONLY crank the starter max 15 seconds. 30 seconds you can damage the starter. Starts to overheat.

Either is NO NO esp with glow plugs. KABOOM it goes. Plus every time you use it, it slowly eats away the piston rings and then makes the engine dependent on it. It will pre ignite if used with glow plugs. I seen it happen alot when I was military and the green fleet trucks.

WD40 is mainly fish oil. Only thing that burns in it is the arsoil.

Pull the intake hose off and grab a shop manual. Choke the air flow to shut it down.

[Spokerider]

Woo Hooo! It runs!

Thanks everyone for your great help. It sure is nice to have help from those in the know.

But..........why does there always have to be a "but".....
It was a run-away. When it first started, it went from cranking to ? redline? in about 2 seconds. I pulled the solenoid wire off the battery to shut it down, and it did shut down.

More info;
When I rebuilt the pump, I used calipers to measure settings and repeat the settings on all throttle screws, max fuel screw, governor screw that holds the fly weights, etc.

This is the original pump for this engine, and they ran before both being rebuilt, and thus I have not changed any pump settings.

I used LOTS of assembly lube on the cam and the insides of the cylinders [ when I had the crank out to do the D mod ]

Could the RPM's be caused by this lube? Maybe the residual WD40 in the cylinders from yesterday? same for W in the turbo?

I turned the idle speed screw [ the long one that goes to the cold start linkage ] OUT 8 turns......made no difference.

No diff with the cold start knob in or out.

I ran the engine 3 times, all run-aways.

Thanks guys.

[745 turbogreasel]

Throttle spline most likely.