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#120 by Gizmoman on 13 Apr, 2014 07:12
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Don't use plastic
Get nice plump orings form Ace.
Could one of the bolt holes go all the way through, making you need a thread sealer?
Check that plastic fitting real good for cracks too.
What is the cooling air path to the IC?
Thanks - good suggestions - the bolts do go through so I'll seal them up. I'll also inspect the elbow for cracks. Gotta be careful taking it off - it would be easy to drop a bolt or washer into the block
. The new o-rings are fatter than the ones I took out and theres little to no pressure so I can't see why it would want to leak.
There's alot going on in that area. I tapped the end of the turbo feed-line banjo bolt and installed the pressure sender and temp probe (now I wish I hadn't). Oil is on both sides of the elbow though so I doubt it's the issue but we'll see. Based on the amount of flow it must be coming from the pressure line to the turbo.
Not sure what you mean by cooling path. I have a radiator and fan mounted under the frame rails. The fittings and hoses you see are now 1" and straight instead of 90s
Here's a shot of the air flow through the IC
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#121 by theman53 on 13 Apr, 2014 07:15
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If you didn't put thread sealer on the oil filter flange to block I have had them leak there.
Also, the kink in the tube on top of the valve cover maybe sending everything down to the bottom where you see your leak.
I am just throwing out stuff to look at, not saying I have all the answers
Great getting it going. -
#122 by Gizmoman on 13 Apr, 2014 08:46
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If you didn't put thread sealer on the oil filter flange to block I have had them leak there.
Thanks for the ideas - I'm open to all of 'em.
Also, the kink in the tube on top of the valve cover maybe sending everything down to the bottom where you see your leak.
I am just throwing out stuff to look at, not saying I have all the answers
Great getting it going.
The oil filter flange is gasketed and I used hylomar so it's pretty much ruled out. The kink in the breather hose is a possible suspect and I have rigged it to be a smoother transition. It's a rube goldberg catch-can of sorts with a loop (like a P-trap). I have big a sintered bronze breather at the end to let out the air. When the loop fills with oil, I lift it up and drain it back into the valve cover
. Hopefully once I get some miles on it, the blow-by will be much less.
I have removed the elbow and inspected it with a magnifying glass - no cracks. I also inserted the tube that goes up to the hockey puck, capped off one end with my hand and blew through it to check the o-ring seal on the tube (mmm-oil on lips goood) - it holds pressure. I should mention that the bolt holes do not go through to the block.
So just to be sure the elbow seat o-ring is working, I cleaned up all the surfaces with lacquer thinner and coated everything with permatex Hi-tack (out of hylomar).
I'll let it sit for a few hours and see what gives. While I had it out, I checked all the fittings around the banjo and its all oil free so it has to be this (I hope). -
#123 by Gizmoman on 13 Apr, 2014 10:15
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WOW< WOW< WOW!!!
Wish I could shake hands with Alcaid and everyone who has helped with the decision to go for for the Holset - this is just what I was hoping for!
Spools as quick (or quicker) than the K-14 and really makes some serious CFM. I used to cruse at 15 psi, now it sits at 7 . EGT's hit 1200 once with the engine cold and tromping on it getting on the freeway. Once it warmed up, EGT's stayed below 950F - even when I pushed it to 20 PSI. The power delivery is very smooth which my transmission appreciates I'm sure. The K-14 was punchy - this is just pure, consistent power. I also want to thank theman53 for the intake tube concept and strongly suggesting I try it. As I did the turbo and intake at the same time, I don't have a clue as to the improvement but the low end is strong and I definitely think it's the tubes
Sadly, I still have some oil leaks. First, the new intake pushes the hockey puck sideways and breaks the seal on the valve cover so I'll need to figure out some sort of chingus to replace it (the puck). This seems to allow oil to leak along the edge of the valve cover. Then, there's still oil leaking from somewhere on the RH side of the engine (facing the back of the van). I can't seem to find the source and there's so much stuff in that area it's difficult to tell.
Here is a shot of the dipstick - can anyone tell me if I have it over-filled (again)? In case you can't tell, the oil is dead on the second ring
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#124 by Gizmoman on 13 Apr, 2014 10:59
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Well, the good news is I found the oil leak - the bad news is the pan is cracked.
Here's what it looks like as soon as I start the engine
Man, this sucks! -
#125 by theman53 on 13 Apr, 2014 11:26
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Yeah, I told you that the holset will spool fine if mine is slightly bigger and spools fine.
What I was saying was the bolts that hold the filter flange on, not the gasket. I had mine loosen up when I didn't use thread locker on them.
Hopefully you will be able to fix your pan all up. At least that should be an easy fix comparatively to the rest of the quest
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#126 by Gizmoman on 13 Apr, 2014 11:45
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Yeah, I told you that the holset will spool fine if mine is slightly bigger and spools fine.
Thanks about the threadlocker advise - I'll check 'em.
What I was saying was the bolts that hold the filter flange on, not the gasket. I had mine loosen up when I didn't use thread locker on them.
Hopefully you will be able to fix your pan all up. At least that should be an easy fix comparatively to the rest of the quest
Removing the pan would be easy if I had taken libby's advice - something about clearance holes/slots in the tin IIRC. There are two bolts in the pan at the transmission I can't get to without separating the engine from the tranny. It wasn't clear at the time what he meant and I was excited to get it together - mistake.
At the time I was contemplating leaving out the bolt going through the transmission and into the pan as it seemed like trouble - wish I had stuck to my gut feeling. That casting can in no way assist with holding the stresses of the engine. Once I fix it, I am going to leave it out. -
#127 by Alcaid on 13 Apr, 2014 12:29
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Told you it would be a nice turbo for you
congrats getting it up and running and at least you found the oil leak and that is much better than eternal searching and head scratching without results.
I am compounding that turbo in my build with a very capable home built Holset hybrid if you ever feel like going loco with this build
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#128 by Gizmoman on 13 Apr, 2014 13:01
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Told you it would be a nice turbo for you
Big thanks to you Alcaid! congrats getting it up and running and at least you found the oil leak and that is much better than eternal searching and head scratching without results.
I am compounding that turbo in my build with a very capable home built Holset hybrid if you ever feel like going loco with this build
No reason to go more - this is just perfect, perfect, perfect - highly recommended for anyone running a K-14. Yeah, I'm glad to have found the obvious leak - just wish I had provided clearance for those two bolts on the back-end of the pan. I may try to see what I can do with a die grinder to assist with access. Plan B would be to remove all the bolts and slide the tranny 1/4" apart.
I'ts amazing how hot things get though. When I was under the van looking for leaks, I noticed the steel spacer block I made had already turned blue. -
#129 by 745 turbogreasel on 13 Apr, 2014 14:48
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I somehow missed the part where the new intercooler is water cooled.
Not sure what you mean by cooling path. -
#130 by Gizmoman on 13 Apr, 2014 15:40
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I somehow missed the part where the new intercooler is water cooled.
Not sure what you mean by cooling path.
Yup - water cools off hot stuff pretty quick Air to air is simpler for sure but water is the way to go if cold is what your after. I only mounted it in the rear pillar cause its close to the intake and I wanted really short piping. On my last run ambient was 68-70 and the intake was running at 63F. Had it not been for the cracked pan, I'd be one happy guy - this thing scoots - well, for a 4000 lb brick.
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#131 by Gizmoman on 17 Apr, 2014 06:19
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Just thought I'd offer an update. . .
The cracked pan is off, cleaned and waiting on the bench for welding when I get home from work tonight. I made a custom 5mm allen wrench and with all the patience I could muster, slowly turned out the two bolts between the transmission and the back of the block. As it turns out, the flywheel has a ring that protrudes away from its back-face towards the block and essentially covers up bolt access. The only way I could have avoided this when I put the engine together would have required milling two slots through that ring (aligned with the bolts) - and another set of slots at 180 to keep it balanced. IOW, the tin was not the issue. The only other solution was to remove the flywheel (NOT).
For the record, most of the engine to transmission mounting bolts were loose (except the one going to the pan) - easy now to see why it cracked. I will be using loctite on all of them when I get to putting the pan back on and possibly leave out the ones going to the pan. I suppose I'm glad the pan cracked - could have been a lot worse out on the road. While I have the pan off, I will also inspect the squirters for sealant underneath each. I have heard they need it or could leak a bit - lowering oil pressure in the system.
Now I will be able to remove the brass plug I used in the PO's turbo drain port and weld it shut. I may even add some more aluminum around the new port I made and re-tap the flange mount holes as the casting is actually quite thin.
Goal is to be running by Saturday afternoon. My last project will be rigging a catch can and something to replace the hockey puck. I'm not returning the vent to the intake so no worries on "running away".
If anyone has any other suggestions of things to check while the pan is off (or want to diss me for what I have mentioned) - please speak up.
By the way - I really miss libby and 8-V -
#132 by theman53 on 17 Apr, 2014 06:29
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If you have good oil pressure now I wouldn't mess with the squirters. You have to disassemble the bottom end to get to them IIRC.
Don't use the red, use the blue if you are going on the trans bolts with them, red will be no fun later -
#133 by Gizmoman on 17 Apr, 2014 18:47
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Thanks for the response theman53. My pressure when hot is around 15 with 5-40 Rotella T6 - high end is 75 when cold. I was hoping it would be closer to 25 hot at the lowest with a new bottom end but I spoze 15 is OK. It was too dark to see by the time I got the pan off last night and I thought the squirters were right there (my memory is getting worn out).
Got the pan welded up tonight - turned out OK and I'm confident it won't leak. As for the bolts and loctite, I plan on using the blue. I must not have torqued them initially cause they were all loose except the one in the pan. I'll be checking them for the first few hundred miles or so now.
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#134 by theman53 on 17 Apr, 2014 20:01
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Unless you have like 7,000 miles on that get the T6 out of there. The synthetic will not let the engine break in properly. It is great oil, but I use brad penn 10w-30 diesel rated for the first 6 or 7 thousand. It will run but it can have increased oil consumption and poorer compression than normal. I thought you only had a few hundred miles on it, is why I posted...
I think the aaz oil pumps have a little less oil pressure when hot idle. I have one in my 1.6 and with the 10w-30 I run right now I get a tad over 20, read 22-23 at hot idle, and the last engine did the same thing. This reading is at the head, but still, it will peg the gauge cold around 100psi. I think that the spec is 29 psi at 2,000 rpm at the filter flange anyhow.