Author Topic: 1.6 TD reliable performance build  (Read 33309 times)

February 17, 2014, 03:18:59 am

mcpook

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1.6 TD reliable performance build
« on: February 17, 2014, 03:18:59 am »
Long time lurker here in the midst of a 1.6 turbo diesel build.  I’ve owned my TD since 2005 and am finally feeling semi-competent.  I don’t have much engine building experience.  A 170 ford straight six back in ’97 and an air cooled VW in 2000.  But I’m here to learn and have fun. 

Rebuild goals are some more go power w/o sacrificing reliability.  Willing to sacrifice some mpg, but don’t want to throw those out the window.  Not a deep pockets build either, but I’d rather do it right once and have this engine for the rest of days.  This is my sole vehicle so I’m not willing to push limits and risk being w/o wheels, but am trying to get performance with some hopefully safe modifications.  I have to keep the reliability goal in mind as the performance temptation is tough to fight.  ;)

I acquired a 1.6 TD hydraulic block code MF and head from brandonfast here on the forum back in May 2011.  It’s been mostly sitting as I research what I need and purchase/prepare components.  I think I’m ready to devote some time to finally putting it together, thus time for my first thread.  Yee Haw!

Assumptions:
Block looks to be decked.  Assumed it was cooked/hot tanked or equivalent.  Freeze plugs looked new, so left them.  Didn’t mess with the oil squirters either.  Didn’t check bores or piston clearance.  The oil pump shaft bearings and IM shaft bearings looked  new.  I bought new ones and didn’t install cause the ones in the block looked in identical condition.  Any assumptions here that should be cause for concern??

Bottom end (done so far):
.5 over KS pistons
Total Seal piston rings (I think I sent TS a set of Goetz that they modified)
Stock rods
ARP rod bolts (104-6002 ? came with block)
ARP main studs (204-5402 ? came with block)
36 mm oil pump (113 011 0001)
Oil pan baffle
SCCH lightened and balanced IM shaft (thanks Justice)
ARP head studs
1 notch AAZ head gasket (piston protrusion between .65 (#3) and .79 (#4))
Paint

The oil pan is in a pile of other miscellaneous brackets awaiting powder coating.  Will make some calls this week to find a local powder coater. 

Some pics so far: 



1982 Rabbit Pickup 1.6 TD
1996 Passat B4V TDI

Reply #1February 17, 2014, 08:17:42 am

theman53

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Re: 1.6 TD reliable performance build
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2014, 08:17:42 am »
very good, with the studs you should be able to push what you want. Longevity...gov mod, intercooler, bigger exhaust, oil cooler. That should do it with plenty of fun for you. An upgrade turbo like the ones alciad is selling or a vnt off of a TDI wouldn't be bad if you are up for building the controller for it.

Reply #2February 17, 2014, 11:28:29 am

RabbitJockey

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Re: 1.6 TD reliable performance build
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2014, 11:28:29 am »
i think a mild port job and doing a passenger performance style intake is really beneficial too for more even flow between cylinders

as for porting, just cleaning up around the valve seats for a smoother transition and then going over the rest of the port to clean up the casting should make a noticeable difference.
01 Jetta TDI 100% stock daily
81 Rabbit:TDI-M ported head, Frank06 cam, PD intake, hybrid T3 turbo, Renault intercooler, Syl20 11mm pump, light weight fw, and yellow California Clutch clutch kit

Reply #3February 17, 2014, 05:54:59 pm

mcpook

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Re: 1.6 TD reliable performance build
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2014, 05:54:59 pm »
Dropped off the oilpan and brackets at the powder coater.  Satin black.  Stopped by pick n pull and grabbed an oil cooler setup from a Volvo 780.  Will test the t-stat to ensure it functions, but hopefully one more thing to cross off the need list.  Also grabbed a hood liner that looked to be in decent shape.  Will spray it down with air filter cleaner, dry and spray with some undercoating to deter further deterioration and rodent nest pilfering.  Also found a tailgate and rear bumper.  Lucky day.  But hard seeing a rust free diesel caddy shell in the yard awaiting the crusher.  Should have saved it or at least grabbed the FN trans and instrument cluster. 

A giles rebuilt pump and injectors are still in an unopened box as well as a G-Pop rebuilt Garrett T3 turbo from a Volvo D24.  I probably should have gotten some forum guidance before going down that road, but at the time I thought it was the answer as it’s from a slightly bigger vw 2.4 TD.  Thought my planned upgrades would put me in that ballpark.  Maybe it’ll be fine, but I could have probably gotten a newer holsett or similar for less than I have in the core and rebuild. 

The head is actually getting a complete upgrade. 
1.6 TD hydraulic head (currently at Herbert Performance/Reno):
Port intakes and exhausts
Port intake manifold and gasket match to head (’86 cabriolet intake w/ modified G60 throttle body for intercooler piping connection)
Surface head (.0015ish I think)
Install tapered pins under the intake seats to repair cracks between valves
36mm x 97mm x 7mm intake valves (028 109 601D)
31.5mm x 97mm x 7mm exhaust valves (028 109 611G)
New precups (Eurocar Togliani #9476)
Techtonics HD Valve springs (#109 081S)
Techtonics 7mm retainers (#109 085)
Guides (037 103 419B)
Hydraulic lifters (050 109 309H)
Seals (027 109 675)
Keepers (021 109 651)
Dr. Diesel camshaft (thanks Justice)

Some pics of the yard goodies. 
1982 Rabbit Pickup 1.6 TD
1996 Passat B4V TDI

Reply #4February 17, 2014, 06:38:59 pm

theman53

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Re: 1.6 TD reliable performance build
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2014, 06:38:59 pm »
You will like the aaz valves or at least that is the aaz valve diameter.

Reply #5February 18, 2014, 01:47:46 am

Toby

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Re: 1.6 TD reliable performance build
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2014, 01:47:46 am »
Are those pics of the final assembly? The reason that I ask is that the bores look awfully cobby. You did just have this bored, did you not? You should be seeing a nice crosshatch, but all I see is radial scratches. especially on the bottom of the bores. You might want someone to take a look at the bores for you. Did you wash out the bores after honing? It looks like you have the telltale haze caused by honing grit still on the cylinder walls.

If you just broke the glaze yourself, you will need to go back in with a Flex-Hone and some lubricant to dial in some crosshatch. It looks like whoever did it just let a cheap 3 stone glaze breaker sit in one spot for a while without any lube to carry off the grit.

Also what did you polish the crank with? It should look polished. That one looks anything but. It is hard to tell with whatever grease is on the journal

Also the Plastigage appears more "squished" on one end than the other This can be from a little mis-alignment when you installed the rod cap or a bent rod. I would clean everything up and plastigage it again making sure that the rod is centered in the bore.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 02:02:48 am by Toby »

Reply #6February 18, 2014, 02:19:25 am

Dakotakid

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Re: 1.6 TD reliable performance build
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2014, 02:19:25 am »
Ya, that hone looks a little odd at the base doesn't it? Of course, some "people" here are pretty strange with their hone concepts (or lack of concept).

Well, myself, I am real big on new intermediate shaft bearings. Can you get ahold of the previous owner and make some inquiries...or the shop who did the work? Look, you want this to last...right? Figure out what the true story is on those IM bearings. There ain't no time like the present to take care of those. That has so much to do with oil pressure.

I would also be so curious as to how the tolerances were on the cylinder bores. Did they do it "right?" Or did they steal 20-30K miles with a loose bore? It would also take a few mysteries out of the break-in. If it's held to the factory clearances, I would not do the "break it in like you stole it" thing which seems to be popular here (to some folks).

Any sign of aviation sealer on the small soft-plug at the back (trans) end of the block? I've had those leak which necessitated pulling the engine and trans back out after initial fire-up. THAT tends to pi$$ one off a bit!
The mask and the shot(s) are actually an IQ test. If you are wearing or circulating, you just failed the test. I can't feel sorry for you.

Reply #7February 18, 2014, 07:45:57 am

RabbitJockey

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Re: 1.6 TD reliable performance build
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2014, 07:45:57 am »
the volvo turbo should be a good match, from what i have read it is a 50 trim t3, with a .36 a/r turbine housing, same turbo as i have built for my 1.6td.  just be careful with how much boost you run, as lucas had a similar turbo that he blew up twice.  do you have any detailed pictures of the turbo?
01 Jetta TDI 100% stock daily
81 Rabbit:TDI-M ported head, Frank06 cam, PD intake, hybrid T3 turbo, Renault intercooler, Syl20 11mm pump, light weight fw, and yellow California Clutch clutch kit

Reply #8February 18, 2014, 12:29:30 pm

mcpook

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Re: 1.6 TD reliable performance build
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2014, 12:29:30 pm »
I'll try to post some better pics of the bore.  I thought the crosshatch looked fine while working on it, but those posted pics do make it look odd.  Better pics may show it differently.  I installed the pistons with a light coat of 10W-30 on the rings and bores.  Obtaining clearer history on the block isn't likely.  I recently e-mailed the previous owner regarding another matter and received no reply.   Unknowns make me uncomfortable, which is why I listed all of the assumptions.  I do not know what was done to the bores.  I assume that since it needed the .5mm over pistons, that it was bored by a machinist.  The best plan would be to load the block into the truck and have my machinist take a look at the bores, polished journals and measure the IM bearing clearances.  Like I said I did buy new IM bearings but when I held them up to the ones in the block, they passed the eyeball test.  Didn't measure and compare numbers though.

I appreciate the feedback and interest.  Thanks.

I haven't cracked the turbo box.  I'll post pics when I do.  And about the pic thing: should I just paste them into the text box in order to get them to automatically appear in the post?  Right now, I'm resizing to 800 x 600 and attaching them, but that's kind of a pain to click each one to view and scroll across the screen. 
1982 Rabbit Pickup 1.6 TD
1996 Passat B4V TDI

Reply #9February 18, 2014, 03:17:55 pm

Dakotakid

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Re: 1.6 TD reliable performance build
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2014, 03:17:55 pm »
Knowledge is power, dude!
The mask and the shot(s) are actually an IQ test. If you are wearing or circulating, you just failed the test. I can't feel sorry for you.

Reply #10February 18, 2014, 04:25:53 pm

mcpook

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Re: 1.6 TD reliable performance build
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2014, 04:25:53 pm »
Talked to my machinist today and plan is to bring him the block for inspection later this week once the headgasket arrives.  He said three notch.  I told him I already bought a one notch based on actual piston protrusion numbers.  I didn't factor in the shaving of the head though.  (.0015ish") We'll test fit the head with the studs and 1 notch HG and some clay.  Getting all arts and craftsy with it. 

I'll check out the tranny end of the block for sealant.  I remember seeing a small freeze plug looking insert.  Is this the area of concern?  Sealant used instead of the plug? 

The valves are actually early TDI valves instead of AAZ.  I've only seen one other place specifying use of TDI instead of AAZ and that was Techtonics site: http://techtonicstuning.com/main/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_13_61_484_587&products_id=1724  Seems mostly I read of people using the AAZ.  Machinist's measurements ultimately dictated the TDI choice. 
1982 Rabbit Pickup 1.6 TD
1996 Passat B4V TDI

Reply #11February 18, 2014, 04:59:51 pm

theman53

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Re: 1.6 TD reliable performance build
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2014, 04:59:51 pm »
Most of the TDI stems I have seen are 7mm where the aaz had both 7 and 8mm stem choices. As long as they fit the lifter and guide they will be fine.

The shaving of the head makes no difference on the HG. The piston protrusion does.

Reply #12February 18, 2014, 09:05:07 pm

Mark(The Miser)UK

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Re: 1.6 TD reliable performance build
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2014, 09:05:07 pm »
McPoop,
If you want to know the truth behind improper honing techniques and deglazing look up Chrysler of America's invention of "Superfinishing", and you will see that sheep who follow sheep, take the wrong route and shorten the life of the engine, and are the first to experience the need to oversize their pistons.
Mark-The-Miser-UK

"There's nothing like driving past a bonfire and then realising; its my car on fire!"

I'm not here to help... I'm here to Pro-Volke"

Be like meeee: drive a Quantum TD
 ...The best work-horse after the cart...

Reply #13February 18, 2014, 09:22:03 pm

Dakotakid

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Re: 1.6 TD reliable performance build
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2014, 09:22:03 pm »
Ya, good old Chrysler.

Single-handedly keeping the towing industry out of default for decades. You prove your own weak points when given enough rope.



The mask and the shot(s) are actually an IQ test. If you are wearing or circulating, you just failed the test. I can't feel sorry for you.

Reply #14February 18, 2014, 10:22:19 pm

Mark(The Miser)UK

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Re: 1.6 TD reliable performance build
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2014, 10:22:19 pm »
Ya, good old Chrysler.

Single-handedly keeping the towing industry out of default for decades. You prove your own weak points when given enough rope.





So do they break down due to honing or poor engine design, or poor electrics?
Maybe it's lost knowledge.
Maybe it's deliberate, after all what company wants to produce a product that outlasts it's warranty 5 fold?
Just how long can a modern 1000cc 100BHP TDI last?
Mark-The-Miser-UK

"There's nothing like driving past a bonfire and then realising; its my car on fire!"

I'm not here to help... I'm here to Pro-Volke"

Be like meeee: drive a Quantum TD
 ...The best work-horse after the cart...