Author Topic: My 1.6D is running aweful  (Read 10650 times)

Reply #30December 14, 2013, 10:27:06 am

Mark(The Miser)UK

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Re: My 1.6D is running aweful
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2013, 10:27:06 am »
Gizo, there was me thinking my dial gauge explanation  was concise and cognitive. :'(
Mark-The-Miser-UK

"There's nothing like driving past a bonfire and then realising; its my car on fire!"

I'm not here to help... I'm here to Pro-Volke"

Be like meeee: drive a Quantum TD
 ...The best work-horse after the cart...

Reply #31December 14, 2013, 10:42:30 am

Gizmoman

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Re: My 1.6D is running aweful
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2013, 10:42:30 am »
No offense meant Mark. But you gotta admit, adding a step by step on reading the dial was superb. I've been reading em for some time, but some folks are not familiar with one and I just thought the explanation was top notch.

We all have different ways of "learning" and what works for one, may not for another;D

Jim W - 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9, Mild head port, Cummins Holset HE200WE turbo, Frozen Boost WAIC, 10" Charge-pipe intake, Ball bearing IM shaft, Giles Pump, 215/70R16, AAP 5 speed Trans. 22 lbs max boost

Reply #32December 14, 2013, 06:54:43 pm

ORCoaster

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Re: My 1.6D is running aweful
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2013, 06:54:43 pm »
Mark, admit it.  His REALLY IS a better description.  In fact I nominate the to be in the stickys section!  I agree one of the best written beginners guides of how to time a diesel I can ever remember reading

YOU NAILED IT LIBBY.

in all fairness Mark did OK but for the journeyman level not Joe Beginner

MOD?  Sticky Please???





Reply #33December 14, 2013, 09:51:30 pm

Mark(The Miser)UK

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Re: My 1.6D is running aweful
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2013, 09:51:30 pm »
Mark, admit it.  His REALLY IS a better description.  In fact I nominate the to be in the stickys section!  I agree one of the best written beginners guides of how to time a diesel I can ever remember reading

YOU NAILED IT LIBBY.

in all fairness Mark did OK but for the journeyman level not Joe Beginner

MOD?  Sticky Please???

Surely not a competition ;D Better mention different FSD's Centre zero, maybe in America someone might just have an imperial gauge.
My favourite that I keep in the car just happens to be 0-15-0...
Some metric ones are only 0.5mm full scale. Pays to check with feeler gauges, and write on masking tape on rear of gauge as a reminder



Mark-The-Miser-UK

"There's nothing like driving past a bonfire and then realising; its my car on fire!"

I'm not here to help... I'm here to Pro-Volke"

Be like meeee: drive a Quantum TD
 ...The best work-horse after the cart...

Reply #34December 14, 2013, 10:40:41 pm

Gizmoman

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Re: My 1.6D is running aweful
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2013, 10:40:41 pm »
It's not about the best one - it's the one that "clicks" for you that counts. Having several in the sticky would be good ;)
Jim W - 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9, Mild head port, Cummins Holset HE200WE turbo, Frozen Boost WAIC, 10" Charge-pipe intake, Ball bearing IM shaft, Giles Pump, 215/70R16, AAP 5 speed Trans. 22 lbs max boost

Reply #35December 14, 2013, 10:49:54 pm

Turftech

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Re: My 1.6D is running aweful
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2013, 10:49:54 pm »
Libby's instructions are without doubt the single best description of setting the timing I have ever seen. All it needs are a few pics to put the cherry on top. Not that others here and elsewhere are not equally good, just that Libby's makes it all but impossible to mess things up, even for someone with little knowledge of the subject. I wish it had been around a while back when I was teething on pump timing for the first (and second) time. After having done it so many times now I could probably do it blindfolded with one finger while hanging upside down and surrounded by starved pit-bulls.

I am thinking it's time I got a TDI, just to keep myself from growing too complacent. I came pretty close recently...  :-X
'90 Jetta GL TD  570'000 Kms and counting (Gave her to a friend)
'92 Passat G60 Syncro Wagon 180'000kms. TDI conversion project
'87 Jetta Coupe 325'000kms. MF IDI conversion project

Reply #36December 15, 2013, 03:41:18 am

TylerDurden

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Re: My 1.6D is running aweful
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2013, 03:41:18 am »
It's a good idea to start at TDC.

Might also be a good idea to preload at 2.75mm if you are timing an ECO.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 03:48:03 am by TylerDurden »

Reply #37December 15, 2013, 08:19:36 am

Mark(The Miser)UK

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Re: My 1.6D is running aweful
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2013, 08:19:36 am »
OK I have a confession to make...
I seem to have conjoined two threads from different fora from different people but with similar problems to make one.
A bit like the 'Global Warming' sheep who became 'Climate Changers' and I predict will soon become 'Mini Ice-agers', as the Antarctic continues to expand.

Anyway I digress. Sorry Turftech. The picture of sound clearly isn't yours. Although if you too posted a sound/video track I could produce something similar to look at. ;D
If you read Andrew's essay and then reread my Limerick sized post; then what I said for using the gauge will make sense I'm sure.
Mark-The-Miser-UK

"There's nothing like driving past a bonfire and then realising; its my car on fire!"

I'm not here to help... I'm here to Pro-Volke"

Be like meeee: drive a Quantum TD
 ...The best work-horse after the cart...

Reply #38December 15, 2013, 10:28:27 am

Turftech

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Re: My 1.6D is running aweful
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2013, 10:28:27 am »
I was unaware that I was involved... Still, what a fascinating approach to diagnosis. Mind if I ask what software you are using to create the spectrograph?
'90 Jetta GL TD  570'000 Kms and counting (Gave her to a friend)
'92 Passat G60 Syncro Wagon 180'000kms. TDI conversion project
'87 Jetta Coupe 325'000kms. MF IDI conversion project

Reply #39December 15, 2013, 08:32:53 pm

Mark(The Miser)UK

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Re: My 1.6D is running aweful
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2013, 08:32:53 pm »
I was unaware that I was involved... Still, what a fascinating approach to diagnosis. Mind if I ask what software you are using to create the spectrograph?
It's a music editor from some old burning software. Syncronising to video was the clever bit so that you can be sure which cylinders  are actually causing the problem, when the noises coming from the engine are numerous.
Mark-The-Miser-UK

"There's nothing like driving past a bonfire and then realising; its my car on fire!"

I'm not here to help... I'm here to Pro-Volke"

Be like meeee: drive a Quantum TD
 ...The best work-horse after the cart...

Reply #40December 15, 2013, 08:38:12 pm

Mark(The Miser)UK

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Re: My 1.6D is running aweful
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2013, 08:38:12 pm »
I was unaware that I was involved... Still, what a fascinating approach to diagnosis. Mind if I ask what software you are using to create the spectrograph?
Holy cow yes it was Derek. Serves me right for not reading threads properly. Still all the evidence is there [here] unedited to prove my stupidity
Mark-The-Miser-UK

"There's nothing like driving past a bonfire and then realising; its my car on fire!"

I'm not here to help... I'm here to Pro-Volke"

Be like meeee: drive a Quantum TD
 ...The best work-horse after the cart...

Reply #41December 16, 2013, 10:14:45 am

Turftech

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Re: My 1.6D is running aweful
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2013, 10:14:45 am »
Perhaps "stupidity" is a trifle forceful? How about pococurante? ;)
'90 Jetta GL TD  570'000 Kms and counting (Gave her to a friend)
'92 Passat G60 Syncro Wagon 180'000kms. TDI conversion project
'87 Jetta Coupe 325'000kms. MF IDI conversion project

Reply #42December 16, 2013, 11:47:53 am

Derekxj

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Re: My 1.6D is running aweful
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2013, 11:47:53 am »
I was unaware that I was involved... Still, what a fascinating approach to diagnosis. Mind if I ask what software you are using to create the spectrograph?
Holy cow yes it was Derek. Serves me right for not reading threads properly. Still all the evidence is there [here] unedited to prove my stupidity

Im so confused. Lol. It's possible our different variations of the language are getting the best of me but i feel like im trying to solve a riddle when i read these posts. Especially the first!

Reply #43December 16, 2013, 11:51:46 am

Derekxj

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Re: My 1.6D is running aweful
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2013, 11:51:46 am »
Derek, the cam lock and pump lock are ONLY used for installing the timing belt.  They are NOT used during the fine injection pump timing procedure.

It seems you may not fully understand the dial indicator's function and reading.  There are two hands that move on that dial indicator, the big hand and the small hand like a clock and what they represent is similar.  The very small hand near the center of the dial indicator reads millimeters.  The large hand is divided into hundredths of millimeters (1/100mm).  The entire face of the dial indicator can be rotated and rotating that face so that the large hand points to zero is called zeroing the gauge.  The red markings can be ignored (not to confuse, but they are just there to measure 'in reverse').

Step one, make sure the cold start lever is not pulled out.  

With the indicator out of the injection pump, push the little feeler in and watch the two hands.  Notice that for each entire revolution of the big hand, the small hand moves up one increment.  With it at rest, loosen the little screw on the outer rim of the gauge face and rotate the gauge face so that the hand is pointing at 0.  Hopefully at rest the little hand is also pointing at 0 (some of them point a little before zero, which is also fine).  Next you want to insert the indicator into the adapter and into the injection pump so that it has a 2.5mm pre-load.  What that means is that you insert it so that the hands start moving and you keep pushing it in until the *little hand* reads 2.5mm - halfway between the 2 and the 3 on the little face (the actual preload amount is not critical - any measurement between 2.5mm and 6mm is fine, but it is good to understand the process).  For a 2.5mm preload, that also means that the big hand will rotate 2 complete revolutions and then another half of a revolution.

OK, preload set at 2.5 mm...  now rotate the crankshaft counterclockwise.  As you rotate the engine CCW, the big hand will rotate with the numbers going *down*.  Watch the gauge for the point where the needle stops moving and when it does stop, you should stop rotating CCW.  Take a quick look at the small hand.  Make sure it has not rotated all the way back to 0.  If it has, then there is some chance that the dial indicator reached the limit of it's range of motion before the part in the pump stopped moving.  If  it did go all the way to 0, then you want to add a little more pre-load by pushing the indicator into the adapter a little further and then rotate the engine CCW a little more to make sure the pump part you are measuring has stopped moving.  

Ok, you're now sure that you are at the 'bottom of the pump plunger stroke'.  Next, zero the gauge face.  Loosen the little screw on the side of the indicator and rotate the gauge face so that the large hand is pointing to zero.  So, at this point, you are 30 degrees or so before TDC, the big hand is at 0 and the little hand is between 0 and 1 (or between 1 and 2, but regardless, take note of it's current reading).

You are now ready to rotate the crank to TDC.  The big hand should start rotating up.  Stop the crank when you get to TDC.  Look at the the big hand and the little hand.  What are they reading?  For correct timing on a stock non-turbo engine, the big hand should be at 90-95 and the little hand should have moved up one increment (if it was between 0 and 1, it should now it should be between 1 and 2).  If the reading on the big hand is just a little below 90 and the little hand has moved almost one increment, then the pump needs to be advanced (rotated so the top of the pump moves toward the injectors) just a little bit.  If the reading on the big hand is very small and the little hand has barely moved, then you need to advance it a lot.  If the reading on the big hand is very small but the reading on the little hand has moved up a full increment, then you need to retard the pump a little by rotating the top of the pump away from the injectors.  

Make sense?



THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    ;D
I really appreaciate you taking the time to type this out. This is a pretty damn awesome writeout for a dial-indicator-dummy like myself.
See. When i was first doing my pre-load. i was preloading it to where it said " 20 " in big black numbers. which i NOW understand is .20mm, not TWO mm.
So, basically i need to see the little hand go to 2 and then and only then am i at 2mm. Maybe this was my problem all along. Either way, my pump's base timing marks, as well as timing belt on the sprocket are more or less completely aligned and im apparently WAY off from where i need to be.........This is what really concerns me.....Im not sure why this is like this at all.

Can anyone tell me if there is any danger in severely compensating by swinging the pump, to get where i need to be? As long as it's at the right value i should be okay right?


Thankyou everyone for all of your answers. I have a coolant leak to fix, and a small air leak in my fuel line to fix.....and then i can really get this dang car running hopefully!!!!!! 

Reply #44December 16, 2013, 01:40:40 pm

745 turbogreasel

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Re: My 1.6D is running aweful
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2013, 01:40:40 pm »

Can anyone tell me if there is any danger in severely compensating by swinging the pump, to get where i need to be? As long as it's at the right value i should be okay right?

If you leave the lines  twisted, they can crack, so loosen the delivery pipes and retighten them after adjustment is done so they are not under stress.

 

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