Help with turbo selection!!!!

[Alcaid]

150bhp, maybe but not whp on an IDI...

[stewardc]

Believe what you want my man. It just shows your ignorance. 

[R.O.R-2.0]

The t3 and k24  which I think the k24 is better have made 150hp on several on this board. I think if you search the forum you will find his dyno slip as he posted it once I think.

Dave Cross made a dyno-proven 193 WHP on a T3, and modified 9mm pump...

Dave is basically god tho...

[Alcaid]

That was a laggy T3/T4, not a stock T3...

[R.O.R-2.0]

That was a laggy T3/T4, not a stock T3...

Crap, youre right.. forgot about that!!

thanks for the correction..

[Alcaid]

Stock T3 turbo = 21lbs/min, 140-150hp @ crank MAX on an perfectly setup IDI engine (but will blow up if running high boost)

Holset HE211W = 31.5lbs/min, 220hp @ crank max and it spools faster than the stone-age T3... dynoed 173whp with a far less than optimal exhaust and with a modified 11mm pump, but not even governor modded so more RPM and HP in there. Well worth the custom work to make it fit!

HE221W are bigger

[theman53]

I thought the general rule of thumb for the possibility in a perfect world was to take the lbs/min of a turbo and multiply x10. that would give the max HP guess of what a turbo could put out. There have been several here that have dynoed the T3 and K24 at 150hp to the wheels. They have posted slips. I would say 140-160hp to the wheels are all they are good for and they are overspeeding like crazy, but in stock form they seem to last a good long while.

While I have had all the T3, K24, a hybrid T3, and the HE221W it is obvious the Holset will do more overall power. But my favorite so far has been the hybrid T3 as far as performance goes...but it will not hold together. And the Holset will be better but I seriously don't think I have enough pump for it, where the hybrid was about suited for this pump.

Alcaid, you need to post up all the specs for these turbos you sell. While they are better, it is really hard to see what you are getting because we have very little to go off of. IMHO if you want more than 150hp reliably then the Holset is it. If you want that 150hp or less they are in no way shape or form worth the time it takes to make one work.

[8v-of-fury]

Believe what you want my man. It just shows your ignorance. 

I want to see a Dyno paper

[Alcaid]

I thought the general rule of thumb for the possibility in a perfect world was to take the lbs/min of a turbo and multiply x10. that would give the max HP guess of what a turbo could put out.

For a petrol engine yes, for a TDI no, for an IDI even worse.

[Alcaid]

Believe what you want my man. It just shows your ignorance. 

Dyno plot or it didn't happen, here's the 173whp 1.6TD, now show me data on yours

 - Bone stock 1V Ecodiesel bottom end (that's why pull was started at 3000rpm, afraid of seeing rods through the block)
 - Unmodified AAZ head
 - 11mm pump by Dieselmeken (only good for 5200rpm then, now it goes higher)
 - Holset HE211W turbo @ 32-33psi IIRC (he is now running the "small" HE221W that theman53 is running, although he is hammering it and is boosting 45psi on a fully built 1.6TD )

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfGAj-ZgpaE

Dyno plot:
173.5whp, 336.4Nm=248.1ft-lbs (torque peak would be higher if pull was started earlier as one can see it reaches full boost before that since tourqe curve is already falling)
140+whp already at 3000rpm

[theman53]

I thought the general rule of thumb for the possibility in a perfect world was to take the lbs/min of a turbo and multiply x10. that would give the max HP guess of what a turbo could put out.

For a petrol engine yes, for a TDI no, for an IDI even worse.

This is what I am talking about. OK, now tell us what the formula is. Don't leave it with "no it isn't that way it is different" but then never explain the rest of the story. How is it different? Why is it different? What factors can change to make it different? etc.

Tell us more about these turbos. What is the duty cycle of them? Where can you get the v band for them? Since you have the knowledge on all these you need to do a write up of what everything is that is needed. We/I need the entire story of everything you know about these. Then since I am running one I could tell more about it to people as well. Right now you say these turbos are great and have a 32lbs/min ... that is it, no one knows more except you and you need to put more into a response so we all know.

[RabbitJockey]

Believe what you want my man. It just shows your ignorance. 

I want to see a Dyno paper

id also like to see it from curiosity, isn't that engine a 2.0 or 2.1 as well?  but im pretty sure he has no intercooler, i would think thats required.

[RabbitJockey]

also, imo for the stock t3 vs stock k24 deal.  i think if ur engine is basically totally stock the k24 is the better turbo, if u are cranking up boost and fueling the stock t3 is better than the k24.  not that either of them are that great haha.

[Alcaid]

I thought the general rule of thumb for the possibility in a perfect world was to take the lbs/min of a turbo and multiply x10. that would give the max HP guess of what a turbo could put out.

For a petrol engine yes, for a TDI no, for an IDI even worse.

This is what I am talking about. OK, now tell us what the formula is. Don't leave it with "no it isn't that way it is different" but then never explain the rest of the story. How is it different? Why is it different? What factors can change to make it different? etc.

Tell us more about these turbos. What is the duty cycle of them? Where can you get the v band for them? Since you have the knowledge on all these you need to do a write up of what everything is that is needed. We/I need the entire story of everything you know about these. Then since I am running one I could tell more about it to people as well. Right now you say these turbos are great and have a 32lbs/min ... that is it, no one knows more except you and you need to put more into a response so we all know.

lbs/min to hp factor is decided by engine specific fuel efficiency (BSFC) and the AFR ratio it runs making max power, typically it would end up like this:

Petrol HP (crank): lbs/min x 10
VE/PD TDI HP (crank): lbs/min x 8.5
IDI HP (crank): lbs/min x 7 (fuel efficiency at the high RPMs we want to run really suck so a lot of fuel and air is needed)

Notice this is crank numbers, whp would be less.

All the information I have on these small frame Holsets turbochargers I have collected over time by buying them, inspect/measure them and test them. Compressor maps have also cost me money as they are not easy to get hold of. All in all this knowledge has cost me a lot of money, time and effort and I don't feel like "giving" it all away. I have sold some to friends with no money earned and even given away one for free just to get some useful test data from it, some I have earned a few $ on selling them but not even close to cover my expenses.

[theman53]

Then you will have to just be aware when someone is apprehensive to get into one this is why. It is the equivalent of put this air filter on it flows 3x more. But that is all there is to go off of. The idea of the forum is to share ideas. I understand you do not want to give away your hard earned work and that is 100% OK to hold onto your ideas, but in the same respect no one will give you the benefit of the doubt when you make the recommendation. The flipside to that coin is that the info you learned will not be taken from your memory and if you share it, you won't have to spend any more money to share it...the money is done spent so you cannot get it back by not sharing. So in a way you will not lose anymore money by helping others and possibly will gain from their tuning and their experience if they go this route. Again, I understand as it is your info to do as you choose, I am just trying to show you the other side and why we want the info. I will not be upset either way, I don't think you should be either. Moving on...

Also a stock aaz = AAZ   4   2   1.9L   Indirect Diesel          75 @ 4200  107 @ 2400              22.5:1

21lbs/min x 7 so that is 147hp at the crank...no fuel mod, no intercooler. So if you add an intercooler to the 1.9 stock and the fact that the stock aaz had a k14 on it without touching on the performance pump you would have bigger numbers. Add the performance pump and then you get even more. The 7x turbo lbs/min doesn't matter if it is a 1.6 or 1.9 or a 5.7L or does it? I think those #s could be a little fuzzy and therefore quite possible to have 150whp...again, the T3 was great on mine it just didn't last. I think to get big numbers *140+* out of a T3 you will run into turbo life problems but in stock form they seem to take overspeeding quite well.