-
#15
by
CRSMP5
on 26 Sep, 2013 12:55
-
rayjay.....
oil return line into oil pan.... dump above oil full level? if not it backs up the oil in turbo and burns it!! so not knowing your oil return line set up.. that my next thing to look at...
-
#16
by
rudygetz
on 26 Sep, 2013 14:48
-
rayjay.....
oil return line into oil pan.... dump above oil full level? if not it backs up the oil in turbo and burns it!! so not knowing your oil return line set up.. that my next thing to look at...
Yes of course. The oil return line from the turbo sits above the pan fill line.
-
#17
by
Gizmoman
on 26 Sep, 2013 17:34
-
Are you guys sure on that?
I'm getting conflicting stories when I read various posts about return oil from the turbo.
My K14 drains below the fill level. In either case, I can't see how it would "climb" up the drain unless there is more pressure in the crankcase than the oil pump puts out (that's a scary thought). My application is the 50 degree vanagon setup. I had oil in the intake side when I tore it down but I believe it was from the blow-by connected to the intake ducting. I also didn't have the drain clocked at 6:00. It is properly clocked now but I'm a few weeks away from running (I hope). I really want this right but before I start moving the drain line, I'd like to get a good reason to do so first.
-
#18
by
CRSMP5
on 26 Sep, 2013 19:24
-
breather usually makes it wet... hiss not hooked up...
if the return flow is restricted yes it backs up.. dumping into pool of oil is restrition vs on top of oil level...
if his is above this we can say with out a doubt his turbo oil seals are leaking now as there is no where for oil to comefrom...
basically id unhook oil return line.. start it up and make 100% sure it flows oil out... like maybe spider egg nest in middle of line... and then he knows...
ill have to find my bae instruction booklet.. i think they warn of oil level vs return line in it... but hell cannot say ive seen it in 10 years...
-
#19
by
Gizmoman
on 26 Sep, 2013 20:17
-
breather usually makes it wet... hiss not hooked up...
if the return flow is restricted yes it backs up.. dumping into pool of oil is restrition vs on top of oil level...
if his is above this we can say with out a doubt his turbo oil seals are leaking now as there is no where for oil to comefrom...
basically id unhook oil return line.. start it up and make 100% sure it flows oil out... like maybe spider egg nest in middle of line... and then he knows...
ill have to find my bae instruction booklet.. i think they warn of oil level vs return line in it... but hell cannot say ive seen it in 10 years...
I've a bit of work into putting the return into the pan (tig welded a #8 JIC/AN fitting and ran a steel braided line. I still can't see how dumping the return below the oil level is wrong. Sure, there's some restriction but the line is somewhat pressurized from the oil pump. I'd hate to have to move it at this point but I definitely don't want oil going into my intake. It will cog my laminova WAIC in a hurry. I'm even routing my blow-by into a can or pre-filter.
-
#20
by
CRSMP5
on 26 Sep, 2013 21:40
-
but the return has no pressure..
bae us borttom mount turbo.. so the return is pretty short vs a top mount... funny thought.. bottom mount turbos from vw were raised up in the block above the oil pan... vs pan style... but i look at it like this.. a turbo seal does not hold pressure like a cam/crank style seal does... i just keeps it from running over the edge...
when the return backs up, the oil level does not flow fast enough... so leaks into the turbo..
thats the "theory" at least...
-
#21
by
Gizmoman
on 27 Sep, 2013 05:48
-
but the return has no pressure..
bae us borttom mount turbo.. so the return is pretty short vs a top mount... funny thought.. bottom mount turbos from vw were raised up in the block above the oil pan... vs pan style... but i look at it like this.. a turbo seal does not hold pressure like a cam/crank style seal does... i just keeps it from running over the edge...
when the return backs up, the oil level does not flow fast enough... so leaks into the turbo..
thats the "theory" at least...
Don't mean to sidetrack rudygetz's post but here's a shot showing where the return line used to go (thin red circle).
I made a plug and sealed the hole. I'll have to go out to the van and see (when the sun comes up) but this is not much below my turbo whn the engine is at 50 degrees. Should I change the oil line to this location?
-
#22
by
libbydiesel
on 27 Sep, 2013 07:32
-
The stock 1.6TD oil line enters at the BOTTOM of the oil pan. This is not really an issue unless something else is going on... like someone thinks fitting an air filter is inconvenient, runs without it, gets their rings and cylinders chewed up by dirt and has enough blowby to overcome the weight of the oil so it gets pushed up into the center cartridge and out the shaft seals...
-
#23
by
rudygetz
on 27 Sep, 2013 07:45
-
The stock 1.6TD oil line enters at the BOTTOM of the oil pan. This is not really an issue unless something else is going on... like someone thinks fitting an air filter is inconvenient, runs without it, gets their rings and cylinders chewed up by dirt and has enough blowby to overcome the weight of the oil so it gets pushed up into the center cartridge and out the shaft seals...
I think there's a bit of misconception here. The plan wasn't to run w/o an airfilter. I've been getting the kinks out of this "turbo build" little by little. During that time I've been locating a solution to the air filter while swapping from a NA pump to a TD pump, driving around a little and tuning the pump. It wasn't slap the turbo on, swap pumps, and *** it no airfilter just keep driving forever!!!!
The car has been sitting under my car port, and it went something like this:
Install turbo. Drive around the block. Turbo isnt spooling. Turn up NA pump. Drive around block. Turbo isnt spooling. Swap NA pump to TD pump. Drive around the block. Turbo isnt spooling. Block off wastegate. Tweak the TD pump. Drive around the block. White Smoke!! Drives great!!! Install EGT Gauge. Drive around the block. Works Great!!! White Smoke!!!!
I hope that clears it up a bit.
So now I'm dealing with the white smoke as the next kink. As I'm reading peoples responses it seems it's possible that turbo needs to be resealed. That's my thinking too.
Sucks I ran it without an airfilter. Live and learn. Next time I'll make sure to do that first before taking it around the block at all. It wasn't a turbo that's been on my car for 6 months and running with no air filter.
Thanks to everyone that has contributed. I'm not going to rebuild this Rajay turbo, instead I'm going to look for a stock mk2 td turbo. Is the KKK turbo a good option?
rayjay.....
-
#24
by
CRSMP5
on 27 Sep, 2013 12:43
-
i understand, less then 1k.. no filter, no breather, theory.. how to get oil on cold side...
if you had a cone filter per say, a over oiled air filter = oil...
breather = oil...
none of that... ok aftermarket turbo... oil return... old 1.6td was mounted at top of oil pan... not bottom... 1.9 they went to engine block..
1.6 top mount turbo... 1.9 bottom mount..
he says oil line top of pan...
if it flows oil.. even if you pul the vac pump.. use drill on oil pump via socket... the oil return should flow good oil... if not.. debre in bearing, something pinching line so on can be looked at... but if great flow..
the queston is how to get oil in cold side... last step = turbo.. no other means...
we can debate his rings vs air filter.. or his return line... but truth is how to get oil on the cold side in under 1k... even if it was fresh rebuild on engine.. breaking rings in.. i doubt you would see much oil on it... but again no breather..
should be dry....
-
#25
by
libbydiesel
on 27 Sep, 2013 13:05
-
I was replying to Gizmo. His is a vanagon. The stock 1.6TD vanagon oil return fitting is at the very bottom of the oil pan.
-
#26
by
Gizmoman
on 27 Sep, 2013 19:54
-
I was replying to Gizmo. His is a vanagon. The stock 1.6TD vanagon oil return fitting is at the very bottom of the oil pan.
My return is right on the left (front for you transverse guys) edge of the pan. I'll shoot a pic of it while I'm under there tomorrow morning routing wires and hoses
EDIT - (back for the transverse - not front)
I really hope I don't have to move it but I DEFINITELY don't want oil in my intake. Based on your input libby, I should be OK.
-
#27
by
burn_your_money
on 29 Sep, 2013 09:55
-
Before spending money on a turbo, I would do a compression check to see if your engine is in good enough shape still to handle one. Unfortunately it only takes about 2 tablespoons of dust to destroy an engine. Hopefully that didn't happen with your engine but I think you would be wise to figure that out before spending money elsewhere.
-
#28
by
rudygetz
on 01 Oct, 2013 20:15
-
Before spending money on a turbo, I would do a compression check to see if your engine is in good enough shape still to handle one. Unfortunately it only takes about 2 tablespoons of dust to destroy an engine. Hopefully that didn't happen with your engine but I think you would be wise to figure that out before spending money elsewhere.
but but your username...
-
#29
by
burn_your_money
on 01 Oct, 2013 20:56
-
but but your username...
I lose