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1.6 NA pump on 1.9L NA engine- Timing?
by
BoostedOne
on 20 Aug, 2013 12:21
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I have a 1.9L ASF(very similar to a 1Y), running a perfectly operating rebuilt 1.6L NA pump.
For what its worth, the truck is up and running, and has been running for several thousand miles.
I don't have a problem, but wondering where I should set the pump with this setup. I set it at about .95 if I remember right, just like it was a 1.6.
But between my MkII and MkIII bentleys, I notice that the pump setting changes between the NA, 1.6TD, and the 1.9 TD.. I don't know if its because of internal differences in the pump operation, the difference of having boost, or if its different for the 1.9 because of the larger volume which would result in acheiving some temperature/pressure in the chamber at a different point than a 1.6? Or a combination of all the above.
Like I say, truck is running and runs well. On the other hand, if I am leaving a few ponies or MPG on the table, I'd like to pick them up.
The pump was rebuilt for my 1.6 about 3 months before the engine swap, and when I did the engine swap(new crate motor) I had the injectors redone at my local diesel pump place.
Thoughts?
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#1
by
TylerDurden
on 20 Aug, 2013 12:40
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AIUI, timing was sometime altered in accordance with injector type and break-pressure changes.
Personally, I would turn up the fueling as desired and time the IP to the cusp of clatter during warm idle.
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#2
by
8v-of-fury
on 20 Aug, 2013 19:10
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Careful, you missed your disclaimer.. That is considered "hillbilly tuning" and is thought of as "wrong" around here.
.
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#3
by
theman53
on 20 Aug, 2013 19:27
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1. The 1Y is a TDI is the ASF?
2. If it is a TDI you may have serious troubles getting it to run on a non modified 1.6 IDI pump.
3. He is not a mod and yes it is hillbilly tuning and should be a "try at your own risk" type deal.
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#4
by
RabbitJockey
on 20 Aug, 2013 19:28
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1y is idi. I think blakes engine is probably 1y or something similar, basically an aaz with longer rods same bore and stroke tho.
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#5
by
theman53
on 20 Aug, 2013 19:35
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My bad...1 Z is the TDI like the AHU, not 1Y apparently. What the heck is a 1Y then, is it the funky longer rod thing MJF had?
More important what is the ASF then?
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#6
by
8v-of-fury
on 20 Aug, 2013 19:50
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1Y was a 1.9L IDI Naturally Aspirated engine. 22:1 compression. Lucas pump.
ASF, I am unaware of this engine code.
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#7
by
TylerDurden
on 20 Aug, 2013 19:58
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Maybe AEF?
1.9 non-turbo
Engine code 1Y, AEF
DIN rated motive power and torque output
47 kilowatts (64 PS; 63 bhp) @ 4,300 rpm; 124 newton metres (91 ft·lbf) @ 2,500-3,200 rpm
applications
Volkswagen Golf, Volkswagen Polo 6N, SEAT Ibiza Mk2, SEAT Toledo, Škoda Felicia
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#8
by
BoostedOne
on 21 Aug, 2013 18:34
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My mistake.. Its an AEF..
According to wikipedia, bore x stroke: 79.5 by 95.5..compression ratio: 22.0:1 - 22.5:1...
Just figured someone else ran a bastard setup like this(1.6NA pump on 1.9NA), or knew enough about the internals of the pumps to know if there is a notabile difference between a NA 1.9 pump vs NA 1.6 to justify a different timing spec.
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#9
by
8v-of-fury
on 21 Aug, 2013 19:02
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I have never had an NA 1.9 pump in my hands, but the 1.6NA/1.6TD are more or less identical in the injection department with the just the LDA lid being different. The 1.9 TD pump is different than them however, with a more radical cam disk. Steeper ramps and longer duration which would be coupled with the dual spring, higher break pressure 1.9 AAZ injectors.
I have run a full stock 1.9TD pump (not entirely true, as it had a 1.6 lid for a better throttle spring and boost pin setup) on a 1.6TD with fantastic power results. That pump now resides on an AAZ still with the 1.6 lid though, it makes good power there too.
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#10
by
BoostedOne
on 21 Aug, 2013 19:37
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I have never had an NA 1.9 pump in my hands, but the 1.6NA/1.6TD are more or less identical in the injection department with the just the LDA lid being different. The 1.9 TD pump is different than them however, with a more radical cam disk. Steeper ramps and longer duration which would be coupled with the dual spring, higher break pressure 1.9 AAZ injectors.
I have run a full stock 1.9TD pump (not entirely true, as it had a 1.6 lid for a better throttle spring and boost pin setup) on a 1.6TD with fantastic power results. That pump now resides on an AAZ still with the 1.6 lid though, it makes good power there too.
Hmm, interesting.. And whether its a 1.6, 1.9, NA or TD, everyone pretty much times them right about 1mm right?
Maybe there would be a little to gain with a 1.9L pump? One thing that is different from the zero mile 1.9 and the old high mile 1.6, is the sound. The 1.6 definately used to clack-a-lack.. the 1.9 is much quieter, no clack after the first 40 seconds of running.
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#11
by
8v-of-fury
on 21 Aug, 2013 19:46
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That is due to the injectors being a two-stage injection. They developed this to cut down on injection noise, and make them more of what the people wanted. Quiet.
If you take notice of the sounds of a 1992 1.6, a 1994 1.9 AAZ and a 1996 1Z TDI, the TDI has a several stage 5 hole injector which cuts injection noise down significantly again.
More or less all IDI's seems to get timed in the 0.95mm-1.05mm area.
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#12
by
burn_your_money
on 21 Aug, 2013 20:00
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I ran a 1.6NA pump on my 1.9NA for a while. I used stock settings. I had the 1.6 injectors in it though. I think I also ran the 1.9 injectors in it for a while too. Ultimately I went with 1.9NA pump internals in a 1.6NA body. I wanted to match the camplate and head to the injectors. I'm not sure why I put it in the 1.6 body though, maybe the 1.9 housing was damaged. I always timed it within the 0.90-0.95 range. All the pumps were Giles pumps (it sure was nice working there)