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Author Topic: Tune+nozzles+surging turbo=BOOM!  (Read 16575 times)

Reply #15August 20, 2013, 06:29:15 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Tune+nozzles+surging turbo=BOOM!
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2013, 06:29:15 pm »
The shaft itself is much stronger (middle section is full width) and so there is a fair bit more rotating mass/inertia.

Reply #16August 20, 2013, 06:30:20 pm

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Re: Tune+nozzles+surging turbo=BOOM!
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2013, 06:30:20 pm »
The shaft itself is much stronger (middle section is full width) and so there is a fair bit more rotating mass/inertia.
So the center sections aren't the same. ;)
Toyota truck 4x4 with Mtdi, M-vnt gt1749va, 11mm pump, fmic, smog .216 nozzles.  Sold!
Working on 1993 4runner mtdi, gtb1756vk, 11mm pump, smog .216 nozzles, custom 1" thick adaptor plate, pd150 intake manifold.

Reply #17August 21, 2013, 01:05:15 pm

RabbitJockey

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Re: Tune+nozzles+surging turbo=BOOM!
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2013, 01:05:15 pm »
The shaft itself is much stronger (middle section is full width) and so there is a fair bit more rotating mass/inertia.
So the center sections aren't the same. ;)

i see what you're saying

but technically the center section is considered the bearing/seal housing.  where as what you guys are talking about is the turbine shaft, it generally is all one piece with the turbine wheel.
01 Jetta TDI 100% stock daily
81 Rabbit:TDI-M ported head, Frank06 cam, PD intake, hybrid T3 turbo, Renault intercooler, Syl20 11mm pump, light weight fw, and yellow California Clutch clutch kit

Reply #18August 21, 2013, 02:51:29 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Tune+nozzles+surging turbo=BOOM!
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2013, 02:51:29 pm »
I supposed I over-simplified when I said the turbine and center section were the same.  When I stated that the turbines were the same, I meant that the fins are dimensionally the same.  The shaft which is attached to the turbine is lightened (weakened) on the VNT15.  The center sections, meaning bearings, oil ports, casing are the same.  Even still there are some slight differences between the integrated manifold and separate manifold versions.

Reply #19August 21, 2013, 07:12:58 pm

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Re: Tune+nozzles+surging turbo=BOOM!
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2013, 07:12:58 pm »
My turbo should be here tomorrow. :)  I have been searching all over the web for some solid answers on the differences between these turbos and I'm not coming up with much.  Can't wait to get my car on the road again. 
Toyota truck 4x4 with Mtdi, M-vnt gt1749va, 11mm pump, fmic, smog .216 nozzles.  Sold!
Working on 1993 4runner mtdi, gtb1756vk, 11mm pump, smog .216 nozzles, custom 1" thick adaptor plate, pd150 intake manifold.

Reply #20August 21, 2013, 08:01:48 pm

theman53

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Re: Tune+nozzles+surging turbo=BOOM!
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2013, 08:01:48 pm »
36.60mm A/R=.65 on GT1749V and VNT15
37.26mm A/R=.61 on GT1749VA
38.23mm A/R=.61 on GT1749VB
38.65mm A/R=.62 on GT1749VC (Third generation vane)
40mm A/R=.74 on GTB1756VK (Third generation vane)

All pulled from the internet so I cannot say what is accurate or not.

Reply #21August 21, 2013, 08:10:18 pm

theman53

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Re: Tune+nozzles+surging turbo=BOOM!
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2013, 08:10:18 pm »
From the Streettoys2000.com website... in his product details section. He used to post here.

                                                               Turbo Identification

Many people get confused with all the V, VA's and VB's etc...hopefully I may help you further understand a little about turbo identification.

 One of the most confusing turbo designation is the "15", however I hear questions daily from newer customers that don't quite understand.

 GT 1749 V : The GT means that it is a Garrett Turbocharger built By Garrett/Honeywell. The first two numbers in the designation ( in this case the 17 ) is a designation used to describe the "hot side" of the turbo, or the frame size in that particular family group.
 the last two numbers ( in this case the 49 ) are the numbers that describe the wheel size of that turbo measured at the base, the largest diameter of the wheel, in millimeters, known as the "Exducer" on the intake wheel.
 The V at the end of the designation describes the turbo as being a VNT turbo, an abbreviation for = Variable Nozzle Turbine.

 I re-stamp any turbo that I modify. I feel that since I changed bore and wheel sizes and at times make my own compressor wheels, and turbine wheels, it is no longer a "genuine" Garrett product. Rather than a "Modified upgrade". For that reason my designations always start with S/T (Street Toys).

 When Garrett first started coming out with the VNT 15 V for Volkswagen, That was at that time it's final designated name( or #). As their line of Turbos grew, they added the GT17V sieries, as they added more to that series they began to upgrade both compressor and turbine sizes within that particular "frame" size. This was the beginning of the 1749VA, VB, VC as we know them today. Since the 15 was alone in its designated group and was really not at all much smaller, they decided to eliminate the "15" designation and incorporate it into the GT 1749 series turbo. So with that in mind, the Garrett GT 15 V is today the turbo known as the GT1749V. The one and the same. The next larger in that family is the GT1749VA, which is actually not at all that much larger than the "V"(15) Followed by the turbo most people decide is a decent upgrade, the GT1749VB. to give you all an example of what size difference there are I compiled this chart.

Bores and comparisons


Garrett designated turbos           intake Bore                     Exhaust Bore

GT 1749 V (GT15)                             1.326"                                 1.441"

 GT 1749 VA                                        1.390"                                 1.467"

 GT 1749 VB (THE"17)                      1.459"                                 1.505"

 GT 2052 V(The "20)                          1.550***                              1.550***

 GT 2252 V                                           1.550 ***                                  ***

 GT 2356                                              1. 587                                   1.605

 GT 2552 V                                 to many sizes to list               1.550 to 1.700

*** These sizes vary in different series within that particular family group. Example, there are over 100 variations of the VNT 20 alone. The sizes shown here are of the most common sizes that are used in turbos manufactured for use in VW applications.

Street Toys Hybrid Specs         intake Bore                        Exhaust Bore

Hybrid 17/52(17/22)                      1.550(52mm wheel)              1.505"

 S/T 1852 VG                                    1.550" (52mm wheel)           1.620"
 "Hammerhead"

 S/T 1856SV                                     1.590" (56mm wheel)           1.620"
 "Hammerhead SV"

 S/T-3-B                                              1.590 (56mm wheel)             1.750"

 S/T-4-D (Ported Shroud)               1.775 ( 60mm wheel)            1.830"


Both of our 56 and 60 mm compressor wheels are custom made with Street Toys specs.

Reply #22August 21, 2013, 08:10:58 pm

theman53

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Re: Tune+nozzles+surging turbo=BOOM!
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2013, 08:10:58 pm »
To make the way to find this easier, I am posting the page I pulled that from here.

http://www.streettoys2000.com/proddetail.php?prod=trp

Reply #23August 22, 2013, 08:46:23 pm

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Re: Tune+nozzles+surging turbo=BOOM!
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2013, 08:46:23 pm »
My vnt 17 showed up today and after a quick measurement, the exhaust turbine is bigger then the vnt 15.  I'll have my camera with me tomorrow so I'll take some pics of the differences.  The hot sides are not the same without a doubt.
Toyota truck 4x4 with Mtdi, M-vnt gt1749va, 11mm pump, fmic, smog .216 nozzles.  Sold!
Working on 1993 4runner mtdi, gtb1756vk, 11mm pump, smog .216 nozzles, custom 1" thick adaptor plate, pd150 intake manifold.

Reply #24August 22, 2013, 09:49:55 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Tune+nozzles+surging turbo=BOOM!
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2013, 09:49:55 pm »
Thanks for the clarification guys.

Reply #25August 28, 2013, 09:05:14 pm

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Re: Tune+nozzles+surging turbo=BOOM!
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2013, 09:05:14 pm »
So after a fair amount of work, my car is up and running again.  I came real close to killing the motor.  There was oil in all the wrong places and almost no oil was left in the crankcase.  Once I got the turbo out, I also removed the intercooler and piping, exhaust and injectors.  The exhaust had a fair bit of oil, the lower intercooler pipe was full and there was oil in all the cylinders.  I used my mightyvac to suck out as much oil as I could out of the cylinders and literally washed the intercooler inside and out. 

The one part I didn't buy was the $200 charge pipe that goes from the turbo outlet to the pancake pipe that runs along the inside of the passenger side wheel well.  The pancake pipe appears to be a bit restrictive so I planned on removing that anyway.  I soon found out that there's a reason this pipe is flat.  There isn't a lot of room for larger piping.  I'll have to rework it a bit so it fits right.  Even though I saved a couple hundred by not buying that hose it would have made things a lot easier.

So now that I have a couple drives on this turbo, it feels very similar to the vnt 15.  There might be a pinch of lag in comparison but since I'm tuned with larger injectors and a free flowing exhaust, I can barely notice it. 

I think it might be time to get my spare motor ready if I plan to drive it like I stole it.  At 487,000 km I might be pushing my luck.  I wouldn't be surprised if I bent the rods a little with all the oil that was in the cylinders.  Maybe that's the Redneck way of lowering compression! ::)

Toyota truck 4x4 with Mtdi, M-vnt gt1749va, 11mm pump, fmic, smog .216 nozzles.  Sold!
Working on 1993 4runner mtdi, gtb1756vk, 11mm pump, smog .216 nozzles, custom 1" thick adaptor plate, pd150 intake manifold.

Reply #26August 28, 2013, 09:52:36 pm

8v-of-fury

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Re: Tune+nozzles+surging turbo=BOOM!
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2013, 09:52:36 pm »
LoL.

That is awesome to hear shes back up and POWERHAUSING!

Get that spare ready.. I need to find one myself ;)

Reply #27August 30, 2013, 09:53:07 am

dieselherb1

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Re: Tune+nozzles+surging turbo=BOOM!
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2013, 09:53:07 am »
Is there a lot of work using the GT2052? Which manifold is using? Are they VNT or wastegate?
Thanks

Reply #28August 31, 2013, 07:47:13 pm

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Re: Tune+nozzles+surging turbo=BOOM!
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2013, 07:47:13 pm »
Is there a lot of work using the GT2052? Which manifold is using? Are they VNT or wastegate?
Thanks
I've never used the gt2052 myself.  There is a thread over on TDI club about installing one.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=360678&highlight=ma+vanes
This should answer all your questions.
Toyota truck 4x4 with Mtdi, M-vnt gt1749va, 11mm pump, fmic, smog .216 nozzles.  Sold!
Working on 1993 4runner mtdi, gtb1756vk, 11mm pump, smog .216 nozzles, custom 1" thick adaptor plate, pd150 intake manifold.

Reply #29September 05, 2013, 12:07:21 am

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Re: Tune+nozzles+surging turbo=BOOM!
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2013, 12:07:21 am »
After a week of driving, the car is running really well.  I mentioned in an earlier post that the short drives I do cause the vanes in the turbo to stick within a very short period of time.  And I mean it when I say short period.  The vanes start sticking in less than a week.  The best way I found to prevent blowing up another turbo is to lengthen the vacuum actuator rod to put a bit of extra preload on the vane lever.  I set it so that it would just start moving with 5" of vacuum.  It barely reached the end of it's travel at 20" of vacuum.  

I wasn't sure if I would have an issue but turns out the vacuum actuator rod can be adjusted with more preload on the vane lever and still work perfectly and save your turbo.  I fired up the car, reached down and grabbed the vane lever.  It was in the full closed position(max vacuum) and I could not pull the lever off it's stop.  

So my conclusion
-Vanes were sticking
-Vacuum actuator rod length not long enough.  Which led to not enough spring force from vacuum actuator to overcome sticky vanes causing boost spikes.
-Too many boost spikes caused the compressor to eventually fail.  Less than 1000km.  The turbo wasn't new but had half the km the engine has and looked to be in good shape.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 12:09:16 am by 410 »
Toyota truck 4x4 with Mtdi, M-vnt gt1749va, 11mm pump, fmic, smog .216 nozzles.  Sold!
Working on 1993 4runner mtdi, gtb1756vk, 11mm pump, smog .216 nozzles, custom 1" thick adaptor plate, pd150 intake manifold.